Jasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 44 Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5788 times:
I've got to agree with Frédéric on this one. Besides, if we need any more proof that the Times of India's little more than a wannabe sensationalist rag, here are some selections from the article linked above:
"Some of the recent entrants are... Alitalia, Aeroflot, Iran Air, Quantas...."
"Those that would increase their flight frequencies...Singapore Airways... and Cathway Pacific...."
Kkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5701 times:
Alitalia, Aeroflot, Iran Air
These three Airlines have flown to India as long as I can remember. Sure at one time Aeroflot served only Delhi and Alitalia Bombay, but they are NOT new to the Indian market. Perhaps they have added new destination within the last 5-7 years but that doesn't mean they have recently entered the market. I guess LH is also new to the market when HYD comes online in March.
Uadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks ago) and read 5364 times:
ua still has airport employees there(DEL)?????i was under the impression that they were let go...........i know this should be on a new thread.......the routes i see coming online at ual will be ORD-ARN,ORD-DEL,ORD/IAD-PRG,ORD/IAD-MAN. would be willing to bet that 3 of these cities come online in the year 2005........im staking my name on this ual777 so i will expect a carlton cold if my cities come true AND a public acknowldgement of the fact that burnsie28 and NWAFA are a great asset to A.NET
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5154 times:
UA still employs airport staff there, though there is no current UA flight.
No. United kept their airport staff on the payroll during their first cessation of operations to India, but they were all terminated after the second cessation of operations in September 2001.
I interviewed a handful of the ex-UA folks in 2002 when I was doing some recruitment in India on behalf of a client and they told me that they do have preferential recall rights if UA were to start up again in Delhi, but for now they are no longer employees.
I think jasepl summed up the article perfectly, so I won't bother adding anything more for now.
Uadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5079 times:
Maybe they will resurrect their planned 744 nonstop ORD-DEL. God knows they have enough spare 744's lying around.
Wonder whether this would hurt AC's YYZ-DEL?
hurt AC??????there will never be enough carriers flying from NORTHAM to INDIA.....any ual folks in here......type in RQ then type in city pairs..
IE:RQ ORD-ARN.........LOOK AT THE DATE THAT THE ROUTE WAS BUILT.....
RQ ORD PRG-24MAR04
RQ IAD PRG-08JAN04
would be nice to see a non CO 57/67 flying into a new euro city........BTW ord/iad-man routes were built in oct of 04....so if BD gets the india routes im sure you will see UAL going into MAN.........
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4996 times:
there will never be enough carriers flying from NORTHAM to INDIA
While the market demand itself has grown at an annual rate of 40% over the past few years, direct capacity in the market has grown significantly faster. Compared to 2002, we now see a 236% increase in direct capacity. With the introduction of Air Canada's service, the biggest loser in DIRECT marketshare (that excludes 6th freedom traffic) was actually Northwest while Air India has actually seen an increase in proportional share (from 53% to 55% of all direct passengers).
The result of this explosive growth in direct service has been a reduction in the market share of a number of 6th freedom carriers. Some carriers such as Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines realigned their strategies to target secondary markets (AMD, BLR, HYD, etc..) rather than the two primary markets (BOM, DEL) that see extensive competition. Others such as British Airways and Cathay Pacific have seen their market shares of India-NA traffic plummet as a result of their inability to respond.
Can the overall market sustain another direct carrier? Probably yes. Can the primary markets sustain another direct carrier? Probably not. No North American carrier has the cost structure to compete profitably and effectively with Indian and sixth freedom carriers, and most do not have the cash reserves to commit to long-term market development either. The solution has to lie in developing a unique product offering that provides tangible consumer benefits to support the premium cost structure. My personal feeling is that this will come via scheduling efficiencies, but we'll see what actually develops...
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4444 posts, RR: 43 Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4789 times:
Sean, I feel that ONE of the reasons why airlines u mentioned such as SQ-CX (and I'll include) MAS-TG have seen their market share from North America to BOM and DEL fall in the last few years is probably due to more flying time.
If u use SQ-CX-MAS or TG to fly to North America from BOM especially, you need to stop twice before reaching LAX-YVR or SFO...once in their hub airport and one more time in a city in between.
CX : BOM-BKK-HKG-USA/YVR/YYZ
SQ : BOM-SIN-HKG-SFO / BOM-SIN-TPE/NRT-LAX / BOM-SIN-ICN-YVR
MAS : BOM-KUL-LAX via which city I forgot
TG : BOM-BKK-KIX-LAX
Instead of flying these airlines having two stops, people are now I feel finding the convenience of flying Lufthansa-Air France-Austrian-BA-AZ-AI-EK(from JFK)-KLM-DL, a more convenient and less time consuming option than the Far East carriers.
Lastly, how do ANA, JAL, KE and OZ do loads and yield wise out of BOM/DEL?
Cx750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4336 times:
BOM/DEL will be strong for some time to come, and you can expected UA and others to start nonstop service. I believe even CO was looking into EWR-India service. Currently, US Carriers do not have the right aircraft for India.
Both UA's B744 and CO's 772s will have to take payload restrictions during the winter. At the same time, yields have stagnated a bit - once those improve, we'll def. see nonstop service. I predict sometime towards the end of 2005, just in time for India's peak season.
(Although AC does operate with A343 and now A345s, they experiened some techinical difficulties with the A343, with return stops in Copenhagen)
SLUAviator From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 357 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3932 times:
I've heard several UA people at ORD say they are going back to India (as well as lots of other cities) so who knows if there is a shred of truth to it. If anyone has ever been in T5 at ORD before Air India goes out will know there is a market for flights to India out of Chicago. The question now becomes if the demand is big enough to support multiple flights, is it big enough to support 2 747s a day? Does anyone even know if the 747-400 can do ORD-BOM/DEL non stop? Air India makes a stop in Europe, and if UA can do it non-stop I think that would give them a real competitive advantage being able to advertise the only non-stop flight to India from Chicago.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
25 Karan69: MAS : BOM-KUL-LAX via which city I forgot The city is tokyo -NRT-i flew that route in 2001 and it was hectic. Sticking to the thread- Is UA really tha
26 Airish: I really wonder if there is going to be enough of a market for both Air India and United out of ORD with both routing flights via another point. I wou
27 Jacobin777: this has been a previously discussed topic.. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1844486
28 Behramjee: CX 750, If UAL-CO and others are finding it hard to fly their own aircraft with payload restrictions nonstop from the US East Coast to BOM or DEL, the
29 MrNiji: of their pax would mind that as its a very short layover time Oh, if I booked a nonstop- I would mind, since takeoff, landing, re-routing etc takes mo
30 Behramjee: Mrniji...I strongly agree with you concerning our mutual dislike of ultra long haul flights. I once flew TPE-LAX and SFO-TPE (14.20 hrs) on Eva Air B
31 SHUPirate1: Here are the current US-India route authorities: AA: BOS/BWI/CLE/DEN/DTW/LAX/MCI/MSP/OAK/ORD/PHL/PIT/SFO/SJC/WAS-all India points (7/1/91), plus EWR/J
32 Behramjee: SHUpirate1...through which UK/EU or Arab cities are US carriers such as CO-UAL-AA allowed to fly to India with 5th freedom rights? DL already does via
33 SHUPirate1: Behramjee-No mention in the document that I have...sorry...
34 B747-437B: Here are the current US-India route authorities Those do not take into consideration either the 1995 MoC and the re-designation of statuses conferred
35 Burnsie28: How about they file a restructuring plane first.
36 B747-437B: through which UK/EU or Arab cities are US carriers such as CO-UAL-AA allowed to fly to India with 5th freedom rights? The bilateral agreement permits
37 Karan69: Those are a lot of options for UA and CO
38 Cx750: Behramjee, A 45 min technical stop could work however, the current margins are very thin, and the stop would eliminate the fare "premium". I agree, lo
39 B747-437B: I also think that people under estimate India yields Who are the "people" who you "think" underestimate India yields? I have found the opposite to be
40 Cx750: B747-437B, I do agree with you on price sensitivity of the Indian market, an airline seat is basically a commodity - but new external factors should a
41 Behramjee: Cx750, The entire Indian sub-continent is a very price sensitive market as Sean B747-437B mentioned in his latest post. That is why you see airlines w
42 Cx750: That is what I have heard as well, even "consolidator" prices are very high, during several months of the year. In my opinion, a nonstop would def. sh
43 AADC10: United RTW service was Flt. 1 going west and Flt. 2 going east on 744s. The stops included DEL LHR IAD LAX and HKG. I flew on parts of it several time
44 Gigneil: Its doable, but I'm sure it were profitable AI or UA would already be doing it. N
45 B747-437B: Further to my comments in reply 20, Delta announced today that they will commence daily service from New York JFK to Chennai via Paris CDG effective M