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Paraguay Aviation  
User currently offlineFlydc10 From Mexico, joined Aug 2004, 82 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

Hey

I was wondering, Paraguay has no national carrier and no International airlines fly to it, maybee just Varign and Aerolineas Argentinas, I want to know if any american or european airlines fly to Paragauay.


vivan nuestras aerolineas nacionales
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMatheus From Brazil, joined Nov 2003, 135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2727 times:

American Airliners flies to ASU from MIA via GRU. Pluna,TAM mercosul and Lan have some flights from and to PY as well.
Paraguay had a airline called LAPSA (Lineas Aereas Paraguayas) bought by Cielos de América (An equatorian company), so, the airline starts to fly B732, A310 and A320. After 1 year and a half, Cielos sold the airline to TAM (Brazil) wich change the name to Transportes Aereos del Mercosul or TAM-Mercosul.
The Fleet:
C208 Caravan - 1
C208B G. Caravan - 1
Fokker 100 - 5

Source: Flap Internacional (in portuguese)

Math

[Edited 2004-12-12 20:27:15]

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Flydc10:

Paraguay's carrier is TAM Mercosur (PZ), a subsidiary 100% owned by the Brazilian airline TAM (JJ).

AA has a daily flight MIA-GRU-ASU with the 767-300 - AA has traffic rights from GRU to ASU.

JJ has a codeshare with IB's flight MAD-GRU to carry pax onward from GRU to ASU.

Paraguay-Brazil flights

GRU-ASU: PZ/JJ (codeshare with IB) 7 x week with the F-100;
GRU-AGT-ASU: PZ/JJ 7 x week with the F-100;
CWB-IGU-ASU: PZ/JJ 7 x week with the F-100;
FLN-IGU-ASU: PZ/JJ 2 x week with the F-100;

GIG-GRU-ASU-COR: RG 7 x week with the 733-400;

MIA-GRU-ASU: AA 7 x week with the 767-300ER;

PZ operates the following international destinations: to Buenos Aires, Cochabamba,Curitiba, Foz do Iguazú, Florianopolis, Montevideo, Santa Cruz, Santiago and Sao Paulo.

Rgs,


User currently offlineN506CR From Costa Rica, joined Nov 2004, 147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

I bet American makes the big bucks over there. Very few pics in the databse btw.


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Really strange they don't have a national carrier....

.:capt_moralesg:.


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2406 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Matheus: and Lan have some flights from and to PY as well.

LA does not fly directly to ASU, they codeshare with PZ. UC did fly there, and after the merge LA took the rights, but no direct flights now.



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2595 times:

AR switched to a codeshare agreement with PZ circa 2001/2, before which they flew a mix of B732s and MD-88s to Paraguay's run-down capital.

PU also fly to ASU, although again they might be codesharing with PZ.

LB fly 2 x weekly to ASU from VVI (Santa Cruz de la Sierra), with a mix of B722s and B733s generally.

PZ is incidentally one of the most expensive forms of air travel in South America. Check out some of their prices at: http://www.tam.com.py

Having visited Paraguay fairly recently, I can't say I'm surprised that so few airlines serve the country. I don't mean this in derogatory way, as Paraguay is a scenic country with some lovely attractions, but the infrastructure is in a state of severe disrepair (more so than Argentina) and the economy is virtually broke. In short, Paraguay is in a very sorry state, even by South American standards, and although I don't know too many Paraguayans, those I do know seem to think that only a Stroessner-like figure is capable of solving their country's problems, and these aren't even the members of the affluent elite (who traditionally backed the military) I'm talking about.  Crying

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

I just came back from Paraguay a few weeks ago. I flew TAM Mercosur, the pseudo national carrier, and was very impressed with their service and efficiency. I found it even better than the regular TAM. They have their mini hub in ASU with flights coming from Bolivia, SCL and EZE connecting to SAO (then Paris & Miami on TAM), Curitiba, Iguassu, EZE & MVD. The connecting time is only 20minutes because there is only one concourse and all the gates are next to each other. When I was departing, all the flights got delayed because the Bolivia flight was coming in late. That concourse was packed with little room to move, but they had refreshments and snacks and were very informative and pleasant. MY flight to Curitiba stopped in Iguassu (IGU in BRazil) and about 40 people got off and about the same amount got on to go to EZE. (no traffic rights between IGU-CWB). It is a weird flight with all those stops, but it seems to be working for them. THe F100 was almost full most of the time, so i would say it was kind of uncomfortable with the tiny seats. But overall a great airline and great flight.
About the situation in Paraguay, I heard from the locals that they are going through the worse economic crisis ever and that something is going to happen soon because the people cant take it any longer. While i was there, there was a national strike and i had to cancel one of my tours to the south part of the country because the farmers where blocking the roads..oh well.. it was interesting, but not necessarily a place to go right now. I am surprised that TAM took that investment, but i think it was smart to do it as a mini hub, like they are doing, to increase their daily traffic.


User currently offlineKeno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Iberia fly to virtually every single Spanish-speaking nation, but why not Paraguay?

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2511 times:

Iberia fly to virtually every single Spanish-speaking nation, but why not Paraguay?

I assume there is no market to serve ASU direct or maybe even with a stop-over. IB only recently started operating flights to MVD in Uruguay. IB has a good codeshare with TAM from GRU-ASU providing IB pax with transfer to Paraguay (ASU and AGT). I dont think IB will serve ASU direct in the immediate future, but I'm sure it is in IB's plans...And you can also be sure that TAM is doing a good amount of money there...

Rgs,


User currently offlineMatheus From Brazil, joined Nov 2003, 135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

I know this is a not political or history forum, anyway I'll explain what happened with PY.

Iberia has a good market with the spanish speaking languages because the population family links between the countries and cultural market, almost like USA have to England and other english speaking contries, so many people like to fly to Spain for bussines or for turism. The problem is, Paraguay lost this links in a war against Brazil back in 1800', 50% of the population were killed, documents lost and the indiginans start to grow over the population. No more family links, the language starts to emigrate to Guarany (a indiginan language, wich is official in Paraguay) and, because this, no more cultural links. This can explain why dont have to many people flying between PY and Spain.

Paraguay is lost in SA, 90% of the black market products selling in brazil is from there, 50% of the cars there have been stolen from Brazil, is a drug paradise, the main entrance to Brazil. Very sad, I'll be hard to make that country grow again.

Math


User currently offlineKeno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Thanks for the info. Has IB actually ever served Paraguay in the past? and what about Bolivia too?

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

Matheus:

Thanks for the interesting information.

Keno:

Bolivia is the poorest country in South America, but its economy is much bigger than Paraguay. Interesting to note that both are the only land-locked countries in the region!

Bolivia has two (well run) carriers: LAB and Aerosur (5L), which has an interesting website: http://www.aerosur.com

The following are the air links Bolivia-Brazil:

RG: GIG-GRU-VVI-LPB, daily, 737-300;
LB: GRU-VVI, daily, 727-200;
LB: GIG-CNF-VVI, 2 x week, 727-200;
LB: MIA-MAO-VVI, 2 x week, 767-300ER;
5L: GRU-VVI-CCB-LPB, daily, 727-200.

(note: LCC GOL of Brazil stated its interest to operate CGR-VVI, with the 737NG, service is expected to start in 2005).

LB provides the only direct nonstop service between North Brazil and the US (MAO-MIA), which is a popular flight with US tourists and cargo.


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User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2401 times:

Matheus:

Indeed Paraguay has never fully recovered from "La Guerra de la Triple Alianza" of 1865-70, but that's not all that went wrong from them. In the space of less than two centuries, Paraguay had the misfortune, to put it mildly, of being governed by the Iron Fists of José Gaspar Rodriguez de Francia ("El Supremo"), a pathological xenophobe and misogynist, followed by Carlos Antonio López and later his megalomaniac son Francisco Solano López, and if that was not enough, the second most durable dictator in South American history, Alfredo Stroessner, whose grip on power lasted 35 years (1954-89).

The 1865-70 war was largely instigated by Solano López, and for those who don't know, it involved the declaration of war on Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay (simultaneously!), at a time when Paraguay was becoming economically strong and prosperous, and subsequently grew too big for their boots in the eyes of their neighbours. The war devastated the adult male population, with estimates ranging from 80-95% of them killed, and by the latter stages, children as young as 12 were going off to fight. The post-war period saw Paraguayan women outnumber their male counterparts by approximately 12:1, a figure which was allegedly still as high as 8:1 in the 1960s, but with time and immigration, the ratio is now probably around 3:1.

The final curse was the wave of Nazis (no one knows how many but there quite a few) who fled to Paraguay after WWII. Now it's hard to tell who is who, as there was also a wave of German Mennonite farmers who had nothing to do with the Nazi régime (and are notoriously pacifist), but if you visit Paraguay, you will most likely meet at least a couple of "Aryan" looking characters whose ancestry you'd rather not question.

As for Paraguay's ties with Spain, as aforementioned, they have been weakened by history and even from the beginning, a combination of Spain's lack of interest in such an inhospitable region and the cultural isolationism of the Guaranís laid the foundations to a rather weak relationship with the "Madre Patría". Paraguayan Spanish is ridden with Guaraní words, and to me is one of the hardest dialects to understand.

Interestingly enough, however, Spanish involvement came largely in the form of the Jesuit missionaries during the 17th century, which is one of the reasons why the Guaraní tribe and their customs survived more intact than those of other indigenous populations. Very few were actually killed-off prior to independence, and to the day, about 80% of Paraguayans speak Guaraní as a first or second language. Incidentally, José de San Martín was born into a Jesuit family not far from Paraguay, in a small town in Corrientes province called Yapeyu, as the Guaranís were not confined to Paraguay's borders.

How does all this relate? Well, simply put, Paraguay is in an appalling state right now, as both Xkorpyoh and I can corroborate. Travel through the country and you will see countless broken-down, abandoned vehicles, derelict factories--total decay. You will also notice pockets of affluence, some of which is due to foreign businessmen settling in Paraguay to take advantage of the rock-bottom cost of living, and others who have enriched themselves through the Mercado Negro. It is not impossible to see BMW Minis or SUVs in Paraguay!

TAM has thrown Paraguay a much-needed lifeline, for sure, as LAPSA was pretty much finished-off by the collapse of the military régime. Their fleet of B707s, L-188s and DC-6s still lie ominously strewn around ASU, symbols of the nationwide decay. For the distances involved, Paraguay does not merit a separate IB flight, or for that matter direct flights from AA. PZ is a useful codeshare partner for most carriers, and it simplifies matters for airlines serving GRU or EZE as ASU is about 3 hours away from both cities--more bluntly, it's far from everything!

Whether Paraguay's situation will improve is largely up to the Paraguayans. I for one am not particularly optimistic, as many Paraguayans (understandably) see the Mercado Negro as their only hope of surviving or making money, which means that the nation's wealth will remain artificial. The Mercosur arrangement sees that around 85% of Paraguay's energy is supplied by Brazil, and Brazil does offer Paraguay access to a couple of ports. Brazil has the potential to keep Paraguay afloat, so long as it benefits, but I don't see that sort of "fraternity" lasting forever, and sooner or later, Paraguay will need to become more self-sufficient. Whether this will be born of legal or illegal means remains to be seen. More importantly, with half the Paraguayan population having never known a form of government other than the Mano Dura of dictatorship, will Paraguay's tragic history repeat itself?

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

Just let me add a couple of things to the LVZXV post:

Alfredo Stroessner was son of a German immigrant and openly admired Nazi Germany. His surname can also be spelled Srößner. During WW2, lots of former Nazi and SS fleed to Paraguay. The Mossad, the Israeli secret service, is said to have found Dr. Joseph Mengele (also known as Angel of Death) in Paraguay, though for different reasons Israel preffered not to capture him, as they did with Adolf Eichmann, who immigrated to San Fernando, in northern Buenos Aires, under the name of Wolfgang Klement. Eichmann was caught and judged in Israel, where he was sentenced to death.

Stroessner basically ruined the already-ruined country by doing whatever he felt like. Nevertheless he was the one who believed Paraguay needed an airline, thus he created Líneas Aéreas Paraguayas, LAP. By the end of his ever-lasting dictatorship, LAP had leased a DC-10 and flew it to MAD, though I don't know the route of that flight.

After Andrés Rodríguez's coup d'état in 1989, LAP started to go very bad, and by Juan Carlos Wasmosy's term the airline declared bankrupcy. Some ex-LAP aircraft are stored at ASU, in very poor state. Only one has been rescued, a Boeing 707, which now is Paraguay's President aircraft, and also flies the national football team when they play abroad.

During Raúl Cubas' presidency LAP was privatized and given to Transportes Aéreos Marilia, later to become TAM Brazilian Airlines. TAM created a new subsidiary, called TAM Mercosur, which is based in ASU. TAM Mercosur's callsign is "Paraguaya" and their ICAO code is LAP, both where inherited from Líneas Aéreas Paraguayas.

Antonio Luis Sapienza Fracchia, a famous Paraguay historian, has written a book about LAP's history, called La historia de Líneas Aéreas Paraguayas. I have been told that it is an amazing book, though I haven't bought it yet.

Here is the book's summary in Spanish:
http://www.forumnow.com.br/vip/mensagens.asp?forum=56023&grupo=215688&topico=2554549&nrpag=1

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineArgentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 374 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

I remember LAP Lineas Aereas Paraguayas, using its DC-8, B707 and later a DC-10-30, in the 80's till early 90's, flying theses routes:

ASU-EZE
ASU-MVD
ASU-SCL
ASU-GRU
ASU-(REC)-MAD-BRU-FRA
ASU-(REC)-MAD-BRU
ASU-(REC)-BRU-FRA
ASU-LIM
ASU-VVI
ASU-MIA

Maybe I forget one or two routes, but I can remember a nice TV advertisement shown here in Buenos Aires at that time, about that beautiful LAP B707 flying to Europe, via Asuncion.



User currently offlineArgentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 374 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Some photographs related to LAP 80's and 90's flights to Europe:

LAP in Brussels:


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Photo © JetPix
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Photo © E.S. / FAP - Finnish Aviation Photography



LAP in Frankfurt:


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Photo © Martin Boschhuizen - AirTeamImages
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Photo © Marc Lehmann




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Photo © JOHN TURNER
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And I also found this: A BAe 146-300 at GRU, leased for a short period of time


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Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria



Saludos


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

lots of former Nazi and SS fled to Paraguay

Dont forget Brazil, Argentina and Chile! Dr. Joseph Mengele actually spent most of his time in Brazil.

Anyway, lots of Germans hard-workers, normal immigrants, also moved to the region. We should not prejudge and state that all German immigrants to the Southern Cone were Nazi or the like. Most of my Brazilian relatives are German descendents (living in Santa Catarina state, Brazil) and they are not Nazi. And I myself living in the Netherlands, better hide my German background, as in this country they still have a very anti-German attitude.

Let us not forget that the German immigrants in the region also suffered under their skin when Germany lost WWII. Many were tortured, killed and sent to prison. Human rights abuses were widespread against the German immigrants.

Anyway, past is past. Germany is one of the most open, tolerant countries in the world, and home to one of the biggest Jew communities as well.

However, I think it is a serious mistake to relate Paraguay's demise and current condition with the German immigrants, the Nazi regime or anything in this direction. Otherwise you would have to explain why the areas settled by the Germans in Brazil are so developed!?

Rgs,


User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Hardi,

Anyway, lots of Germans hard-workers, normal immigrants, also moved to the region. We should not prejudge and state that all German immigrants to the Southern Cone were Nazi or the like. Most of my Brazilian relatives are German descendents (living in Santa Catarina state, Brazil) and they are not Nazi. And I myself living in the Netherlands, better hide my German background, as in this country they still have a very anti-German attitude.

I belong to the German Jew community, hard-worker, normal people who just saw their country throwing them away. My grandparents came to Argentina from Germany escaping the Nazis.

I know what you mean by that Dutch anti-German attitude. Even though I am a German passportholder, everytime I enter the Netherlans I use my Argentine passport - it's less hassle and avoids lots of strange looks from the immigration officers.

However, I think it is a serious mistake to relate Paraguay's demise and current condition with the German immigrants, the Nazi regime or anything in this direction. Otherwise you would have to explain why the areas settled by the Germans in Brazil are so developed!?

I am not saying, by any means, that Paraguay is underdevelopped because of German immigrants. Actually I believe those German immigrants helped Paraguay to, in some way, have a stronger economy. Remember that during the Stroessner (or Strößner) regime, Paraguay had its best economic results in ages. Stroessner certainly was a dictator who couldn't care less of human rights, but still he managed to boom the Paraguayan economy!

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineMatheus From Brazil, joined Nov 2003, 135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

A.net is also history !  Wow!
Lol
Btw, all of I know about PY is what I've learned in the school and watch in the news. Thanks for all the info guys! Now I know better the country wich is less than 800Km from my home.

Math


User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Good evening gentlemen,

I have been told by a friend's mother, who used to be a travel agent, that LAP offered the best fares from EZE to Europe in the 80s and early 90s. Apparently it was a 27-hour, two segment flight from Frankfurt:

FRA-BRU-MAD-GIG-ASU
ASU-EZE

As aforementioned, connection time at ASU was short if compared with other airports, mostly due to the small size of the airport, which, at the time, was called Aeropuerto Presidente Stroessner!

Stroessner also changed the name of cities, the most famous being Puerto Stroessner. Of course all those places and buildings have been renamed after the coup d'état, ASU becoming Sivio Petirrossi and Puerto Stroessner being changed to Ciudad del Este. Nevertheless, in some maps you may still find Puerto Stroessner, and here at A.net the airport still features the name "Presidente Stroessner" between brackets.

During the military-regime era in Latin America, Paraguay did collaborate with the Argentine dictatorship by extraditing some Argentine "undesirables" (aka left-wing partisans) back home. I have also been told the "Vuelos de la Muerte", that were organized during the military regime in Argentina, also were done in Paraguay. Those consisted in sending some leftists in a plane to the nearest river (Río de la Plata in the case of Buenos Aires) and making them jump from 1.000 feet high. In Paraguay it was even worse, as one would remain alive - the one that had to tell the rest they were going to be killed.

Anyway, as you can see the 70s were not Latin America's most glorious years.

After the coup d'état, Stroessner moved to Brasilia, where he still lives, as this 92 year-old man is alive. Stroessner's life and character has always been surrounded by mistery and miths in Paraguay. Nobody really knew "Don Alfredo", as he was called, apart from TV, and the whole Paraguayan population was very afraid of him. However, some people believe he should be back, as during his dictatorship the economy was doing better than it currently is.

Saludos,
Marambio




Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

LAP offered the best fares from EZE to Europe in the 80s and early 90s

Indeed, at the time some friends of mine living in Brazil would buy a ticket to ASU so as to fly LAP to Europe, e.g. LHR - LAP was by far the cheapest ticket to Europe. Of course, during the same time, VARIG was a totally different airline, specially flying for the "rich" in Brazil. It was a luxury travelling VARIG overseas!

After the coup d'état, Stroessner moved to Brasilia, where he still lives, as this 92 year-old man is alive.

Correct. More precisely, he lives in Brasilia's "South Lake", which is the richest area in Brazil (yes, in the whole country!!!!). The South Lake has the highest income per capita in the country. It also has the highest number of swimming pools per square meter in the world, simply because all houses (well, mansions) have their own swimming pool!

Rgs,


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