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Bombardier Chief Sacked  
User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2749 times:

Paul Tellier has been removed from his position at Bombardier. Laurent Beaudoin taking over for the time being, at least.

Thoughts?

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

They probably noticed the dismal market forecast for the C-Series. Going up against both Boeing and Airbus on their volume product is suicide.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Tellier's reputation was made transforming Canadian National Railways from a bloated state-owned railway into the private sector powerhouse it is today.

My guess is he suddenly came to the realization that he would not be able to work the same magic with Bombardier, and he isn't interested in presiding over a meltdown he can't stop.

The market is trashing Bombardier shares this morning -- how low can they go?



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6420 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

"They probably noticed the dismal market forecast for the C-Series."

It is far more complex than that... the driver for his dismissal is due to a Board Room battle vs the Bombardier/Beaudoin family. 2 Directors, Michael McCain and Jalynn Bennett, are also "resigning."

The stock market is NOT happy with this announcement... the share price has just dropped 25% and has hit an all time low of $2.11 (it was over $7 earlier in the year). Analysts have a lot more confidence in Tellier and his program than in the Beaudoin/Bombardier family... they got the company into the current mess.

Executive chairman Laurent Beaudoin (who, BTW, married into the Bombardier family) is now going to lead a "new office of the president". He will be joined by his son, Pierre Beaudoin, president of Bombardier Aerospace, and Andre Navarri, president of the Bombardier Transportation railway-equipment division.

"My guess is he suddenly came to the realization that he would not be able to work the same magic with Bombardier, and he isn't interested in presiding over a meltdown he can't stop."

Tellier didn't quit... he was "sacked" because the "family" didn't like his transformation plan. Love him or hate... but Tellier is a tough fighter and would not jump ship just because market conditions are rough at the company.

[Edited 2004-12-13 17:35:43]


Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2595 times:

Analysts have a lot more confidence in Tellier and his program than in the Beaudoin/Bombardier family... they got the company into the current mess.

Now now; let's be serious for a second here. The Beaudoin/Bombardier family took Bombardier from an obscure back-yard garage building a freak machine called the snowmobile to become the largest commuter transportation manufacturer and the 3rd largest aircraft manufacturer in the world. Call that achievement what you want, but I'll call it, say, not bad...

I've been harsh on BBD many times, especially because of their "bean counter" philosophy which, conversely, leads to a serious lack of innovation. Aside Bombardier the father himself (Joseph-Armand), Bombardier, under Beaudoin, has consistently demonstrated a major lack of imagination.

The relationship between Beaudoin and Tellier became sour the day Tellier suggested that the Bombardier family should sell the majority of their class "A" actions - those that give a right to vote - as a mean to improve BBD's value. And Tellier didn't help his cause by selling the snowmobile and VTT division, which was profitable and highly cherished by the Bombardier family.

Anyway, all in all, I think Tellier didn't do a great job, but BBD's culture of "bean counting first, let's innovate after if we have time and money (preferably form the governments)" didn't help either.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

One more point for Embraer!



User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6420 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2529 times:

"And Tellier didn't help his cause by selling the snowmobile and VTT division, which was profitable and highly cherished by the Bombardier family."

Qb001, what are you talking about??? Tellier "sold" the "profitable and highly cherished" Rec Division TO the Bombardier/Beaudoin family. And not only did the Bombardier/Beaudoin family retake control of the Rec Div but they ended up paying only paid 50% of their supposed "bid" - grossly less than market value!!

"Anyway, all in all, I think Tellier didn't do a great job..."

With Tellier out of the picture now I guess that is why the BBD share price has so far dropped over 25% today... shareholders must have soooo much confidence in the Beaudoins!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

FYI, Telllier was handed the huge mess that the Bombardier/Beaudoin family created and he saved the company from going Chap. 11.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineJeffLAS From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

The Globe and Mail is reporting this morning that CEO Paul Tellier is stepping down as CEO of Bombardier, Inc. The stock took a .65 cent dive down to $1.90 this morning.

Makes you wonder why they took the CEO from CN Rail (who has no airline or aircraft manufacturing experience) and made him CEO of Bombardier. Dumb move! But then again, other airlines have done the same thing; U.S. Airways brought some guy in from AVIS Rent A Car to run things!

Can you say "Duh"???



" Jazz A-380, you have 2,100 feet from the intersection......Cleared for Take-off"
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6420 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

"Makes you wonder why they took the CEO from CN Rail (who has no airline or aircraft manufacturing experience) and made him CEO of Bombardier. Dumb move!"

Not a dumb move. Tellier had been a Director of BBD for several years before he agreed to becoming CEO. Considering that the Transport Division is responsible for roughly 50% of corporate revenue and that it was really screwed up due to the poorly executed AdTrans Rail Equipment acquisition, it made sense for Tellier to become CEO, especially considering his very successful track record at CN Rail.

FYI, the previous BBD CEO, Robert Brown, went straight from the Canadian Government to Bombardier.

Ironically, after leaving BBD, Brown was Chairman of Air Canada when AC ordered from Embraer.  Laugh out loud And now Brown, as CEO of CAE, has raided BBD for one of their senior execs with 20-years experience, Marc Parent, as a Group President.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Tellier "sold" the "profitable and highly cherished" Rec Division TO the Bombardier/Beaudoin family. And not only did the Bombardier/Beaudoin family retake control of the Rec Div but they ended up paying only paid 50% of their supposed "bid" - grossly less than market value!!

Naaaaah... It's way more complicated than that. But it's off-topic, so I won't be more specific.

And Tellier did such a good job that when he took office, BBD shares were worth, what, 5-10-15$ ? Now there less than 2$. A real good job, by all mean  Insane



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6420 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2357 times:

"Naaaaah... It's way more complicated than that. But it's off-topic, so I won't be more specific."

It can't be any simpler... the Bombardier/Beaudoin family have their "profitable and cherished" recreational products division!

First you try to make it look as though Tellier "upset" the Bombardier/Beaudoin family by selling the Rec Division (as though he sold it to a third party), but when I point out that Tellier in fact "sold" the Rec Div to the Bombardier/Beaudoin family you say that "it's way more complicated that". Nice try!!!

And not only did the Bombardier/Beaudoin family retain control of their "cherished" rec division but they also made windfall gains at shareholder expense. They ended up paying only half their bid price.

"And Tellier did such a good job that when he took office, BBD shares were worth, what, 5-10-15$ ? Now there less than 2$. A real good job, by all mean."

Why don't you check some facts before you post! Tellier inherited an absolute mess when he took over as CEO and saved Bombardier from going into Chap. 11.

When Tellier accepted becoming CEO the shares had already dropped from $27 because of the mismanagement of Beaudoin (and Brown) - the disasterous AdTrans acqusition, the non-performing BBD Capital loans that had to be written off, the non-GAAP acounting that resulted in the re-statement of prior financials showing profits to losses, etc, etc, etc, etc...

The fact that today the shares have dropped 25% after it was announced that Tellier left BBD clearly shows that investors don't have confidence in Beaudoin - the man responsible for creating the mess at Bombardier in the first place.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2306 times:

Planemaker is absolutely correct.

Tellier sold BBD's snowmobile and watercraft unit for about CAD 960 million to a group of investors that includes Bain Capital LLC, members of the Bombardier family and the Caisse de Depot et Placement du Quebec (Canada's largest pension-fund manager). The Bombardier family is a participant in the private equity consortium that acquired the business from BBD last year.

Tellier also raised cash through a share rights issue and was highly-regarded by BBD's creditors and credit rating agencies. As I have said in prior posts, BBD is an example is disastrous corporate governance. BBD's "B-shares" do have "tag-along rights" in the event of a change in corporate control and the "A-shares" convert to "B-shares" once the Bombardier/Beaudoin family drops below 50% voting control. HOWEVER, the fact remains the Beaudoins have used their voting control to MEDDLE in BBD's corporate governance, creating great harm to the Company's CREDITORS and its B-shareholders.

what a mess... let's hope the Canadian/Quebecois tax-payer does not have to pay for government-guaranteed credit to finance the development of BBD's crazy adventures with the C-series.

BBD's CREDITORS should be the party exercising corporate control here and should do everything they can to wrest control from the lackluster Bombardier family.


User currently offlineJeffLAS From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2237 times:


He bailed....with his golden parachute.  Big thumbs up



" Jazz A-380, you have 2,100 feet from the intersection......Cleared for Take-off"
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2099 times:

Planemaker, the only thing I have to say as an answer to your teenage-minded "analysis" is : brother  Insane ...

Anyway, given Laurent Beaudoin's management style, I think the C-Serie will be shelved, and for a long, long time.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6420 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2043 times:

The only thing I have to say as an answer to your teenage-minded "analysis" is : brother

Yes, that is obviously the ONLY thing that you are capable of saying when confronted with facts (Pdpsol even provided some of the details!)

My "analysis" can easily be verified by checking BBD's Annual and Quarterly Reports... or the business section of newspapers - obviously something that you don't do as you so amply demonstrate in your inane posts!  Laugh out loud



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineFloridaflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2006 times:

Let me try out a few ideas on you guys. It seems we have a wide range of thoughts and interests, but lots of industry smarts.

It seems apparent Tellier’s departure was due to differences in the direction of the company, and one can only assume the CSeries was a part of the problem. A number of writers in today's press reports surmised it was a difference in how to proceed with the project. Perhaps these were some of the issues Tellier was concerned about:

· Bombardier has never developed a new airplane from a clean sheet of paper. They have either inherited or stretched existing designs. Anyone in the business knows new development is a daunting task, and cost-inceases/delays are commonplace - especially if you developing new technology. Even thought Bombardier is a top aerospace company, they have little experience in Montreal in new aircraft design, and particularly in new technology development.
· The new project is touted to offer 20 percent savings in operating costs, but given the state of technology, this is going to be, well, hard to achieve. If it were that easy, I think others would have done it by now. It requires a much more efficient power plant and that would require a massive investment from an engine maker. I haven’t seen GE or RR, or even fellow-Canadian PWC jumping up and down to do that. As for cost savings in fuselage design, it would take lots of very bright engineers to make this happen, and . . .
· The competition for very bright engineers is fierce. Boeing, Airbus, EADS, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman . . . these are just a few of the companies paying big bucks for talented engineers and for projects a lot more exciting than a new airliner. Given a choice of work environments, it may be easier to choose a stable, high-tech mega-company over a position where the future is a bit in doubt. That doesn’t even address salary – and which company might be in a better position to pay more, or offer more career choices.
· The new product will be 5-6 years to market, and the market niche targeted here is not huge. Recent figures (US DOT/Back Aviation) suggest that, over the past three years, 61 percent of all flights in the US depart with pax loads best suited for 70-110 seat aircraft, while 17 percent have loads for a 110-135 seat aircraft. For a carrier to maintain frequency and a decent load factor, larger aircraft may not be the way to go.
· And there’s the two giants - Boeing and Airbus. As all might agree, they aren’t going to concede this segment of the market. Add in the top range of the Embraer product line, and there are three established product lines they will be up against. While this has no bearing on a new entrant five years down the road, it is interesting to note that both the JetBlue and Air Canada competitions pitted all four companies against each other. Bombardier will not find it easy in this area.
· The best indicator of what the market wants is to see what the market will pay for. Where there is a clear requirement, you will find support for development funding by market groups – financiers, shareholders, suppliers, and partners. This was the case with the new Embraer family - the $1 billion cost picked up by the shareholders, a public offering, and risk-sharing partners (along with normal cash flow from ERJ sales). But when governments step in to fund development, market requirements are skewed. If there really is no market, government funding for political reasons will result in a white elephant – with taxpayers left to clean up after the beast.
· And finally, never mind the question of whether the Canadian taxpayer should put his or her tax dollars on the line – R&D support in this instance is probably contrary to WTO regulations and this would most likely trigger a protest by Brazil. Since Jan 1, 2000, government funding of R&D, according to the WTO, could result in “adverse effects” to a competitor and would be actionable under current regulations. Since there is no bi-lateral agreement on this matter between Canada and Brazil to supersede the WTO (such as the now-defunct 1992 accord for large jets), Brazil would probably bring an action – which would at the very least cost millions of dollars in legal fees, and at the most, tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in possible trade sanctions.

The bottom line is that this is a project fraught with risk. The market is questionable, the funding poses a major problem, the competition is formidable, and the technical challenge is enormous. One article in the Canadian press today quoted Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group saying that, given their economic predicament, if they proceed with the project, it will “result in a bloodbath.”

The company seems to be paying the price for abandoning the BRJ-X. Some people reported seeing Bombardier engineers leaving the facility at Oberpfaffenhofen with boxes of drawings following their “evaluation” of the 728, and that might give them a leg up, but they still have a problem, it seems to me, and perhaps Tellier was ousted because he brought up issues such as this instead of moving as fast as a locomotive with the new project.

So what do you think?


User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1891 times:

I think you made so valid points and some others are more questionable.

Bombardier has never developed a new airplane from a clean sheet of paper.
True. That's why I believe the C-Serie, under Beaudoin, is dead.

Even thought Bombardier is a top aerospace company, they have little experience in Montreal in new aircraft design, and particularly in new technology development.
More or less true. But somewhat irrelevant now that the C-Serie is dead (IMO).

The new project is touted to offer 20 percent savings in operating costs, but given the state of technology, this is going to be, well, hard to achieve.
Not at all. And many engine manufacturers have expressed their interest in being a partner in the C-Serie.

The competition for very bright engineers is fierce. Boeing, Airbus, EADS, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman . . . these are just a few of the companies paying big bucks for talented engineers and for projects a lot more exciting than a new airliner. Given a choice of work environments, it may be easier to choose a stable, high-tech mega-company over a position where the future is a bit in doubt. That doesn’t even address salary – and which company might be in a better position to pay more, or offer more career choices.
I largely diasgree on that. Remember, French-Canadian, for obvious cultural reasons, are not that mobile. And when they move (very rarely), it is mainly to go to France. So, that's not an issue, quite the contrary. Many engineers, who had to leave Montreal for lack of jobs, gladely came back when Bombardier needed them.

The new product will be 5-6 years to market, and the market niche targeted here is not huge.
I disagree. But even if it was true, that doesn't mean it's not large enough for Bombardier.

And finally, never mind the question of whether the Canadian taxpayer should put his or her tax dollars on the line R&D support in this instance is probably contrary to WTO regulations and this would most likely trigger a protest by Brazil.
I work in R&D and I can tell you that the Canadian tax credits program for R&D is perfectly in line with WTO rules. The tax credit program is not limited to Canadian companies; it applies to any company, regardless of its ownership, as long as the R&D effort is conducted in Canada.

On another note, yesterday, BBD's share rose 5% at the TSX. Now let's see. BBD's share felt sharply after Tellier was sacked and that was supposed to be the greatest demonstration ever in the history of mankind that Beaudoin is not fit for the job. But then, the day after, it rose 5%. I wonder what we're supposed to understand ? Maybe a teenager, or a teenage-minded, a.netter will provide us with his immense knowledge of correlating stock market evolution with facts...



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

Qb001:

I largely diasgree on that. Remember, French-Canadian, for obvious cultural reasons, are not that mobile. And when they move (very rarely), it is mainly to go to France. So, that's not an issue, quite the contrary. Many engineers, who had to leave Montreal for lack of jobs, gladely came back when Bombardier needed them.


Yes, that's exactly why so many of them wound up in Texas and California working on Apollo.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

"On another note, yesterday, BBD's share rose 5% at the TSX. Now let's see. BBD's share felt sharply after Tellier was sacked and that was supposed to be the greatest demonstration ever in the history of mankind that Beaudoin is not fit for the job. But then, the day after, it rose 5%. I wonder what we're supposed to understand ? Maybe a teenager, or a teenage-minded, a.netter will provide us with his immense knowledge of correlating stock market evolution with facts..."

I'm no teenager, but don't get too blown away by something called a dead cat bounce. Market players are out there to do one thing -- make money -- and the smart ones know how to ride the shares in both directions. It could be that a bunch of shorters are now picking up their shares at bargain basement prices and handing them off to the poor slobs who signed the contracts. What the shares do over the next month will be indicative of where the sophisticated market thinks they're going -- not what happens in a day or two.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineFloridaflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1813 times:

Qb001
Thanks for your thoughts. Like you, I don't have the knowledge of the stock market to know what the analysts are thinking. It will be interesting to watch.

But let me clarify some of my thoughts - and I'm interested to hear what you say.

I'm not as confident the CSeries is dead. Rather to contrary, I think it's a done-deal. Press statements by the PM and industry minister have assured BBD they will have R&D funding - I think the PM said "we will do what it takes" to assist the company. The day of the 50 seater is decling and just released forecasts by BBD and EMB point to that. BBD either becomes a niche player in the airline market or they launch the program. I think they are just waiting to line up funding.

BBD's own material says the aircraft would enter service in 2010 - if they stay on schedule. That means 5-6 years down the road. My point on the size of the market is this - if, according to published sources, the market for a 110-135 seat aircraft is about 17 percent of the total, can BBD still make money competing with three entrenched products? Maybe the market changes by then and there is 20-25 percent of the total market available - is there sufficient demand to recoup US$2-3 billion (airframe and engine) in development funds when competition will force razor thin margins?

As for engineers, I did not mean there would an exodus of engineers from Quebec. Rather, it will be hard to attract engineers when the competition is so strong. I have to be honest - I was at Fairchild Dornier during the 728 development program and it will be manpower-intensive for BBD. They will need thousands of engineers.

As for the WTO, I now work for a company with an interest in this and the legal brief I read this week says that direct R&D support is a violation of the accord and is actionable. You are assuming this will be a tax credit, but the government plan expressed by ministers in the press is talking direct government funding. There are all kinds of government support - finance support to customers, training credits, property tax credits, income tax credits. BBD needs hundreds of millions of dollars in aid, and a report today said they would also need a low-interest government load to finance their own portion. The government has said they will give BBD $300 million (CAD) and the Cabinent votes this week. They are not talking about tax credits - and BBD wouldn't pay that much in taxes in years. This too will be interesting to see what comes out.

Anyway, if you or anyone has any other thoughts, I'd love the read them.





User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

I'm no teenager, but don't get too blown away by something called a dead cat bounce. Market players are out there to do one thing -- make money -- and the smart ones know how to ride the shares in both directions. It could be that a bunch of shorters are now picking up their shares at bargain basement prices and handing them off to the poor slobs who signed the contracts. What the shares do over the next month will be indicative of where the sophisticated market thinks they're going -- not what happens in a day or two.

I'm totally with you on that. My rather sarcastic point was aimed at those who make bombastic statements solely based on the TSX reaction regarding some short-term, unfolding events.

FloridaFlyer,

BBD plans to finance the program is this (roughly) :
- BBD foots a third of the bill;
- Suppliers foot another third (Global Express business model);
- Last third comes from some government aid (refundable maybe?) and R&D tax credits, both legal under WTO rules. The Canadian R&D tax credit program has been around for nearly 10 years now; if it was illegal it would have been challenged a long time ago.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

Well, I might be wrong after all.

Beaudoin just declared that the C-Serie is not dead. Actually, what he said is that he would prefer to build the C-Serie in Quebec.

Maybe it's a matter of keeping all his options open. But remember : Beaudoin HAS NEVER completed a new program from a white sheet, in any field (planes, trains or snowmobile) in the 20 years he's headed BBD.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6420 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 days ago) and read 1697 times:

"Well, I might be wrong after all."

What took you so long to realize it!! It's been obvious to the rest of us!!  Laugh out loud

"Maybe a teenager, or a teenage-minded, a.netter will provide us with his immense knowledge of correlating stock market evolution with facts..."

Repeating a juvenile "slur" just because you are unable to support your assertions with any facts is really pointless.  Big thumbs up

But then perhaps you really can't comprehend facts such as... Standard & Poor's and Dominion Bond Ratings putting BBD on Credit watch with "negative" implications... Bloomberg News reporting that 11 of 18 analysts that follow Bombardier put out "sell" or "underperform" ratings... or that 2 independent directors resigned with one of them saying: "Decisions were made which I fundmentally disagree with at this critical juncture in the company's history," etc, etc...

"My rather sarcastic point was aimed at those who make bombastic statements solely based on the TSX reaction regarding some short-term, unfolding events."

Obviously you do not know the meaning of "bombastic"... show me just one of my statements that is not backed up with facts. And "short-term" events??? Just what is "short-term" about Tellier's firing and Bombardier's problems??? What kind of logic is that!!!



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

But then perhaps you really can't comprehend facts such as... Standard & Poor's and Dominion Bond Ratings putting BBD on Credit watch with "negative" implications... Bloomberg News reporting that 11 of 18 analysts that follow Bombardier put out "sell" or "underperform" ratings... or that 2 independent directors resigned with one of them saying: "Decisions were made which I fundmentally disagree with at this critical juncture in the company's history," etc, etc...

Oh my gawd. You still trust those, even after some like them were telling the world to buy Enron... Sorry, but I don't believe in astrology, the old one or its new, hype version called credit firms, economists or stock analysts (who, BTW, are beaten 50% of the time in their predictions by chimpanzees; google that just for fun).



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6420 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1647 times:

"You still trust those"

First you groundlessly say that I am "bombastic" and now you say that I "still trust those."  Laugh out loud

Just where in my post do I say that I "still trust those"??? Obviously, after I refute your posts you just go off on an irrelevant tangent and invent something else up that I haven't said!

That you "don't believe in astrology, the old one or its new, hype version called credit firms" is completely irrelevant and of no consequence. However, the "credit firms" and their ratings are important to Bombardier and are of consequence... but you obviously don't comprehend this elementary fact!  Big thumbs up



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
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