The AP story says that Southwest has made a bid to take complete control of ATA, foiling ATA's plan to emerge from bankruptcy as a smaller airline according to a published report in The Indianapolis Star.
Southwest proprosed injecting $47 million in cash into ATA, taking a 35% stake and naming new senior execs who would work to cut labor costs 15 to 20 percent. ATA Chairman George Mikelsons would lose his position as chairman and could lose most of his 69 percent ownership of the airline.
Edit: typo
[Edited 2004-12-14 16:13:38]
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3586 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6065 times:
Can someone post the article itself? I don't feel like typing in all of my information just for the article
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3586 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6046 times:
I still think it is a bad idea...their eyes are bigger than their wallets.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2147 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6048 times:
As much as I hate WN, I hope they b!@ch slap FL in the bidding war.
ATA Chairman George Mikelsons would lose his position as chairman and could lose most of his 69 percent ownership of the airliner.
Haha. He should have given HP's offer a harder look.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
DB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 49 Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6020 times:
You can't post copyrighted articles in these forums. The important parts are summarized below the URL.
Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5997 times:
Looks like a bargin for WN. They use the rest of ATA, gates and all for collateral on the 46 mil. loan, and when ATA fails, wind up with all of MDW for almost the same money as FL bid. I'm thinking FL will counter with something, but it looks like WN is bent on owning MDW.
Airtran needs to match the WN bid and play the monopoly card because that's what Midway will be.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2147 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5915 times:
But, they didn't make one.... They dropped out last week...
They didn't make an official bid, but there were negociations going on. Apparently, he was offered a board position and stock. Mr. Mikelsons wasn't interested becuase he was so hellbent on getting FL's $87 million.
Now it looks as though he may get blindsided by WN and end up with far less.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12559 posts, RR: 64 Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5862 times:
They didn't make an official bid, but there were negociations going on. Apparently, he was offered a board position and stock. Mr. Mikelsons wasn't interested becuase he was so hellbent on getting FL's $87 million.
HP's decision to withdraw had nothing to do with negotiations with TZ and/or Mikelsons - it had to do with their inability to negotiate lower lease payments on the 738 fleet, since the thought was that HP could lowball the lessors and come away with a screaming deal.
Since there IS demand for the 738s (primarily from Asian carriers), the lessors were unwilling to cut HP a deal on the planes, and HP elected to take a walk.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Lat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 447 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5846 times:
Maybe it would allow ATA to go back to the core of what they did best, leisure and military charters and scheduled flights to vacation destintions. Then let WN manage the rest.
Vortex From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 99 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5822 times:
My brother (who flies for ATA) told me that several airlines were interested in buying ATA (or merging with them) in the 1st quarter 04' but such overtures were rejected by George. Maybe he should have seriously considered such offers back then. I know the employees have always been loyal to George, but times have changed, and clearly he is in over his head.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2147 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5809 times:
HP's decision to withdraw had nothing to do with negotiations with TZ and/or Mikelsons
Yes, I know all about the lessor issue for aircraft, and I never said it was the reason HP withdrew. However, Mikelsons was not interested in HP's deal, and was wanting to go with FL's offer.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
Planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5741 times:
perhaps you've all missed something....
think about the possible ramifications of this, DFW, DAL, and the Wright Amendment.
Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5705 times:
"perhaps you've all missed something....
think about the possible ramifications of this, DFW, DAL, and the Wright Amendment"
I don't understand what you are getting at. Do you mean that if they have their hands full in MDW, there would be an opening for FL in DFW?
FRA2DTW From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5698 times:
I can see it now! Hourly service with the 757's from OAK, LAX and SEA to Hawaii and hourly service to London from BWI and PHL, connecting to Ryanair (the European SW equivalent) to the rest of Europe. What a vision! I love it.
Avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4092 posts, RR: 18 Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5676 times:
"I can see it now! Hourly service with the 757's from OAK, LAX and SEA to Hawaii and hourly service to London from BWI and PHL, connecting to Ryanair (the European SW equivalent) to the rest of Europe. What a vision! I love it."
Thankfully, this vision will NEVER come to pass...
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7253 posts, RR: 25 Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5667 times:
Do you mean that if they have their hands full in MDW, there would be an opening for FL in DFW?
FL's already at DFW and they were adding service within the past year. A year ago, one would've thought FL was on its way to making DFW a focus/connecting city for them... especially w/DL's scaling back/pulling out.
Then came WN toying with coming to DFW, then breaking their silence on the W/S A. after stating that they were no longer interested in DFW, then TZ's filing Chapter 11; it's almost as if WN seems ready to pounce on where-ever FL seeks to expand. Is WN (still) mad that FL came to BWI a couple of years ago?
If WN does indeed win the TZ situation at MDW, I would look for FL to continue building up its DFW operations. After all, even if WN wins and gets the W/S A. repealed; it will take several years for the repeal to take effect.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5628 times:
If USAir goes under, MDW opening up, DFW wide open and Wright amendment possibly going away, Indy air in trouble there could possibly be more opportunitys than aircraft for either WN or FL. Neither one can have it all.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5613 times:
If WN does indeed win the TZ situation at MDW, I would look for FL to continue building up its DFW operations. After all, even if WN wins and gets the W/S A. repealed; it will take several years for the repeal to take effect.
Several years is a bit much... I'd say we will know the fate of the W.A within 12-18 months max.
Looks like a bargin for WN. They use the rest of ATA, gates and all for collateral on the 46 mil. loan, and when ATA fails, wind up with all of MDW for almost the same money as FL bid. I'm thinking FL will counter with something, but it looks like WN is bent on owning MDW.
Looking at WN's proposal, they intend to be the restructuring force within ATA, not the rapers/pillagers. They will probably reallocate the 737s into WNs fleet, retire the L1011s, and focus on charter/vacation work with the 757s. WN also plans to take 6 of ATA's 14 gates, so if those other 8 gates became availabe, it would be the best deal ever handed to FL.
ATA as a scheduled carrier is over, but WN can still salvage some portions of their opperation and recreate a profitable company.
7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3586 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5607 times:
I don't know about anyone else but i am getting burnt out on this ATA/FL/WN ordeal...i am just now going to wait until thursday when we should hear from the Judge
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5586 times:
I don't know about anyone else but i am getting burnt out on this ATA/FL/WN ordeal...i am just now going to wait until thursday when we should hear from the Judge
Ohh it's on a Thuresday? Bad news for FL
WN has historically made all their good/positive business announcements on Thuresdays.... their profit reports, aircraft orders, route announcements, ect all come on Thuresday...
Mikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1380 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5527 times:
From the article: "AirTran proposed buying all 14 gates at Midway and would funnel passengers from its Atlanta and Baltimore hubs to ATA long-distance flights."
The thing I don't get is this seemingly very common notion in the media that AirTran is looking to acquire all this gatespace to fly its equipment strictly to/from its hub(s). To acquire 14 gates to ultimately fly to/from TWO cities while maintaining strictly the ATA longer-distance operations is proposterous, and I don't know why the notion makes sense to the journalist's that have at least implied it.
LN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1896 posts, RR: 15 Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5491 times:
From what I can see, WN i not interested in any a/c. All they talk about is codeshare on certain routes - around 10 - out of MDW. These are routes ATA will drop when the new schedule goes into effect in January (?). I don't see ATA keeping more flights out of MDW than they would if FL wins the auction.
WN sees the opportunity of getting 'free sales' from ATA, possibly connection service/feed to/from Hawaii, Mexico and the Caribeean and a stake in the 'new profitable' ATA that will come out of the downscaling.
If the judge approves this deal, there will still be eight gates available at MDW. It is possible that they also can get airTran to cut a deal for a reduced number ...
We'll see on Thursday.
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
25 Quickmover: "If the judge approves this deal, there will still be eight gates available at MDW. It is possible that they also can get airTran to cut a deal for a
26 LoneStarMike: perhaps you've all missed something....think about the possible ramifications of this, DFW, DAL, and the Wright Amendment.I'm kind of confused here. I
27 Searpqx: LoneStar - I think you're probably closer than just about anybody else. This move isn't about WN out to do good by ATA, it's about WN being a smart bu
28 Syncmaster: Here's another good article, also does not require registration. http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2004-12-14-swa-ata_x.htm This should be interesti
29 7E72004: I was wondering the same thing about c8 operations. ATA is already discontinuing service to several of the cities (SPI, etc.) and is already taking re
30 Quickmover: I still can't see FL not bumping up their bid. Maybe alot of these articles are just grandstanding for the media. Does WN truly want to be in the code
31 PHLBOS: Should the scenario play out similar to what LoneStarMike outlined, FL may have to settle for expansion by either picking up the pieces left by the po
32 OPNLguy: >>>Did anyone see anything about C8 operations though? I thought I recalled reading (in the flurry of articles over the last week) that Wexford and so
33 PHLBOS: I thought I recalled reading (in the flurry of articles over the last week) that Wexford and some other outfit was to make a bid for the entire C8 ope
34 ATLhomeCMH: Doh! WN taking control of anything makes me physically sick. I'm still hoping that FL can seize upon what little opportunity they have left to make th
35 7E72004: I guess it is time to start placing bets I will take what seems to becoming more of a long shot, FL for $10
36 ATLhomeCMH: 7E72004: I guess it is time to start placing bets...I will take what seems to becoming more of a long shot, FL for $10 Count me in, double or nothing.
37 7E72004: The other question is if WN does "take over" ATA, what happens when the midfield terminal at IND opens in 2008?? Costs are going to no doubt increase;
38 Quickmover: Do the courts listen to what the current management wants to do in this type of situation? According to that USA Today article, Mickelson would lose h
39 LoneStarMike: Hmmm.. I think I might need to rethink this. I think I've found the "something" that I was mising.The article from the Indianapolis Star (talking abou
40 7E72004: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...i can't take it anymore...i hope thursday gets here soon or i am going to go nuts with the WN/ATA/FL talk (although i am somewhat gu
41 DfwRevolution: The other question is if WN does "take over" ATA, what happens when the midfield terminal at IND opens in 2008?? Costs are going to no doubt increase;
42 7E72004: If FL wins the deal, they WILL NOT be taking over ATA...the routes out of MDW will be configured under AirTran with the exception of the transition. A
43 DfwRevolution: If FL wins the deal, they WILL NOT be taking over ATA...the routes out of MDW will be configured under AirTran with the exception of the transition An
44 7E72004: I don't see that as a "restructuring" per se; they will be taking over soem routes, making some adjustments, etc...they would not be restructuring ATA
45 Vortex: My money's on WN. I think the major secured creditors (Boeing, GE Capital and ILFC) will side with WN. WN has bought quite a few more airplances from
46 Tango-Bravo: Haha. He should have given HP's offer a harder look Whereas higher-than-anticipated acquisition costs of ATA's 737-800s was cited by HP's CEO Doug Par
47 Swadispatcher: Lonestar, you hit the nail on the head - All of the codesharing is going to happen in MDW.. and the intent, I think, is to have ATA keep operations in
48 Travatl: All of this is pretty amazing. I mean, we're talking about an airline in bankruptcy that is being fought over by two "Low Cost" airlines. It's a pinna
49 Midway2airtran: Very fun to watch things unfold with this. No matter what happens, LCC consolidation is now on the way, even w/o this being a merger of any sort. The
50 Silver1SWA: From what I can see, WN i not interested in any a/c. All they talk about is codeshare on certain routes - around 10 - out of MDW. Yeah, THAT is what's
51 LoneStarMike: OK here's another idea that should blow your socks off and one which I find kind of exciting.I can't seem to get past that code sharing example that w
52 Justapassenger: Here is an even better idea. The more I hear about this the more I wonder whether there aren’t more reasons for WN’s interest in ATA. If WN takes
53 SWAFA30: Evidently, according to an article in today's Dallas Morning News, SWA CEO Gary Kelly is saying that SWA would not take control of ATA in the proposed
54 PHLBOS: Not only would it open DFW up to places like LGA or BOS (sorry - don't know much about ATA's routes) but it would also open up these cities to Southwe
55 ATLhomeCMH: Then came WN toying with coming to DFW, then breaking their silence on the W/S A. after stating that they were no longer interested in DFW, then TZ's
56 Quickmover: Mickelson is supposed to give his recomendation to the judge today. The judge isn't obligated to follow that recommendation, but it carrys substantial
57 PHLBOS: Of course WN will pounce when FL seeks to expand...they know that LCCs like FL and B6 have a better LCC product and are gradually becoming more succes
58 7E72004: WHAT TIME will we be able to find out what the judge decides??
59 7E72004: an editorial from Indystar.com http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/202193-3445-104.html
60 Srbmod: The only way I could see WN being allowed to acquire TZ would be if the TZ ops @ MDW are sold to FL as part of the deal, and I highly doubt WN would b
61 Quickmover: Has anyone heard if FL is willing to change its bid? I think it will take more than monopoly concerns to keep WN out. I think the shear fact that WN i
62 Planespotting: this just in to clear up some things (from a reputible source i assure you) WN will not be removing any management from TZ. WN will not have any say o
63 7E72004: 24 HOURS AND COUNTING UNTIL THE MOMENT WE HAVE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR, AND UNTIL WE CAN FINALLY PUT THIS THREAD TO REST!
64 Quickmover: Wasn't ATA supposed to recomend a buyer today? Anyone heard anything?
65 7E72004: They are recommending a buyer today but the judge will "formally" make the decision on thursday. I guess the judge needs some time
66 7E72004: looked at the docket for the Bankruptcy Court here in Indy and if you look at the 3 case and below you will see the ATA cases and a LOOOONNNNGGG list
67 Rumorboy: Looks like the decision has been moved to Dec. 21st according to ATA's ALPA chairman. Guess everybody has to wait another week.
68 DB777: http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/202830-6794-223.html Informative story about how Southwest got involved with ATA and more details as to the future
69 OPNLguy: From the article... • Aircraft: 61 Boeing 757s, Saab 340 regional jets and others Since when is the Saab 340 a regional jet? What, no 737-800s? (Ass
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