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777, 7E7 & 747Adv Common Flight Deck?  
User currently offlineODwyerPW From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 896 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

777 and 7E7 both use (will use in case of 7E7) Honeywell Avionics. What is the likelihood that 777 and 7E7 will have a Common Flight Deck? Can/Will this be adopted for the 747Adv, differentiating it from existing 747?

Is it more advantageous to develop the 747Adv with a flight deck common to existing 747-400 or with 7E7?


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16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Cockpit commonality is by far the least consequential of what's already a severely-overrated (though still important) concept by aviation enthusiasts.


That said, perhaps Boeing will pull a 764ER-- i.e., give the airlines the ability to display cockpit information in like fashion to what model they see fit.


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

From what I heard the 7E7 will be very close to the 777 cockpit.....


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User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

From what I heard the 7E7 will be very close to the 777 cockpit.....

Stlye wise yes... configuration wise no. The 7E7 will display roughly the same information on 4 larger screens, rather than 6 smaller ones. I don't see why Boeing can't still make it a "common" cockpit, but they will NOT be indentical


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

Technology, that is why Boeing can not make it a common cockpit. Plus, the 7E7 will have dual HUDS, pilots will learn how to use that as well.


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User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Technology, that is why Boeing can not make it a common cockpit

What does that mean?

The A380 is going to fly almost 20 years after the first A320, but they have a fully common cockpit.

The A380's is better and looks completely different, but information will be displayed in a common format and the FBW will behave the same way.

N


User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

I think people are a little confused. A common cockpit really does nothing. All of the Boeing "glass" cockpits are fairly common in layout.

I think what the real issue is if the aircraft will have a common type rating. Frankly, I don't see that as a real issue. First of all, the FAA/JAA wouldn't allow a common type on the 747A v. 777 or 7E7. The landing picture is too different and the flying characteristics will be too different. Since the 777 and 7E7 are both FBW, Boeing could if they wanted make the handling characteristics the same. However, I don't think it's worth it in the long run.



User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3377 times:


The A380 is going to fly almost 20 years after the first A320, but they have a fully common cockpit


That depends on your definition of commonality. Airbus is saying that it will take 8 business days to convert an A320 pilot to fly the A380. It takes around 10 business days to convert between some of the Boeing "non-common" cockpits.


User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1837 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

It's not so much about pure commonality, more the concepts of CCQ (Cross Crew Qualification) and MFF (Mixed Fleet Flying).

Albeit this is only of interest to the less unionised carriers (i.e. not popular in the US) as it allows pilots to fly A319 one day and A330 the next. FBW allows almost identical handling characteristics. Insomuch as you are not handling the aircraft, merely operating it.

I believe much of the A330-to-A340 training focuses on 4 fire handles rather than 2....and that's about it.

I would expect the A340 and A380 to have a common rating....is this going to happen?


User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

737 v 767 v 777. U could be in three different manufacturers aircraft.

The big question airlines are waiting to have answered, is what will the definitive 7e7 flight deck look & behave like, and will this become 'the' B std, in particular for future 777 derivatives and most critical the 737 replacement?

It seems there are factions within B that can't agree on the std. Shd the 737 replacement set the std, as most pilots will progress thru this model range, and numerically, they are likely to dominate? Or shd it be the 777, as it's a pre-existing model? Or shd it be the 7e7, as it's the next new model release?

Or shd it be none of the above, and will B just keep changing from model to model, so the latest model is always state of the art?

What would customers prefer?


User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 728 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

What would customer's prefer? State of the art or commonality?

User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

I think most customers would prefer savings on the bottom line. Obviously, for Boeing the issue of CCQ or commonality wasn't an issue. Otherwise, we would have had the 757/767/777 as a common type rating.



User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3058 times:

I would expect the A340 and A380 to have a common rating....is this going to happen?

No. Not possible, I wouldn't think.

The A380 is so much larger and heavier that I don't think any certifying authority would issue such a common cert.

N


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1001 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

The A380 is so much larger and heavier that I don't think any certifying authority would issue such a common cert.

I believe emergency procedures are different as well...


User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

If u are a one model airline, commonality is not an issue.

If u plan to be, or are a multi-model airline, it is an issue.

If u are a US-based airline, commonality is much less of an issue than elsewhere in the world. The US stance is driven by union / seniority issues.

All other factors (price, performance, re-sale, etc) being equal, commonality then becomes a factor.


User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

I think that in regards to the 7E7 overhead panel at least you will see a major difference from the 777 due to the lack of a pneumatic system, radically different electrical system, and other systems differences. I'm not sure if they plan to incorporate 7E7 or 777 systems into the 747ADV.

Dl757Md



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User currently offlineRj111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

The A380 is so much larger and heavier that I don't think any certifying authority would issue such a common cert.

Inevitably, they are trying to keep the two as similar as possible though. Which explains the positioning of the A380's cockpit, roughly the same height as the A340's IIRC.


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