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What Exactly Is "International Airspace"?  
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Hi all,

I noticed a lot of pictures in the database which were taken while flying over ground but have the description "International Airspace", for example these:


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Photo © Ismael Jorda
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Photo © Christian Galliker



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Photo © Tis Meyer
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Photo © Peter Unmuth - VAP



I always thought that when you are flying over Thailand, you are in Thai airspace and not in international airspace. When you are flying over Germany, you are in German airspace and not in international airspace, etc.

I think you are in international airspace when you are flying over an ocean where no land is, or maybe over Antarctica. Is this correct or can you also be in international airspace when you are flying over a country?

Can anyone please enlighten me?

Thanks in advance!

Patrick

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBrink777 From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

I think it means that the carrier for example LH is over us airspace it is considerd international air space becouse LH is german

User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3635 times:

Isn't Int'l airspace over areas that are not controlled by any country? If a LH flight is over the US, it is in US airspace. The fact that it is a foreign carrier has nothing to do with it.

User currently offlineBrink777 From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2004, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

Good point LegendDC9! Maybe its becouse the photografer does not Know what land they are cruising over and its not their homeland so to them it is international airspace

User currently offlineManu From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 406 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3490 times:

It's a simple reason. The photographer isn't from the country that the picture was taken over, therefore they are international! (lol). Sorry, I couldn't resist...

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3409 times:

You are absolutely correct Sabena332 and this is one of the things that irritates me when I look at some window view shots!

As all land has been claimed except Antarctica, the only time where one can be in international airspace while overland is if they are flying over Antarctica.

Flying over any other land is definately not international airspace.

In regards to the sea, nations can claim I believe 12 or 15 miles of sea from the coastline. Anything beyond that is classified as international waters and international airspace.

I believe exceptions are made for lakes however.

By the way, the rule in regards to claiming 12 or 15 miles of sea from the coastline includes ice.

Basically Canada cannot claim the North Pole or any of the frozen ice between land in Canada and the North Pole.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3401 times:

I believe 12 or 15 miles of sea from the coastline.

I tht it was 200nm?? Or is that for Lighthouses?




Now you're really flying
User currently offlineRobsawatsky From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

The 12 mile zone is the territorial limit (i.e. full sovereign control and rights of the country apply).

The 200 mile zone is for economic exploitation. (i.e. the country has economic control over the sea and seabed but it is not their territory for other purposes).


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

Robsawatsky:

Of course, the 12-mile amount can matter to varying degrees. For instance, get within 200 miles of the wrong country with the wrong type of vessel, and you're liable to get your head blown off anyhow.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineKomododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

I'm not exactly sure how it is defined but what I do know is that the pics you posted have wrong information. If they're over land, they're over THAT country's airspace.

Int'l airspace I believe would be somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific oceans.

KdX in TLH / FLL


User currently offlineRushed From Australia, joined May 2000, 248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

does a reef count as the starting point for the 12miles thingy.
Ie the great barrier reef along the northern coast of qld?

on a side note australia now requires all ships entering within a 2000km radius of australia to report to australia as part of scheme to protect australia.. LOL... ironically indonesia papa new gunea and new zealand all fall within this 2000m radius.. Does that mean that if you go fishing in new zealand you have to call australia and report..

rushed



travel blogging enthusiast :)
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3082 times:

When the laws about territorial waters turned up first during the 19th century, the idea was that, if you claim some stretch of sea, you should be able to defend it. Back then coastal artillery had a range of about 3 nautical miles, so this was the territorial waters. Later the range increased to about 12 miles, as it still is today.

Jan


User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

I thought it was 10 nautical miles? Could be 12.
I know in the FAR there are referenced to 10nm within the shoreline.
sorry for the vagueness..... the ppl above can give you a better idea  Smile
-Nikhil



eP007
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2939 times:

Int'l airspace is airspace not controlled by an autonomous state, such as out in the middle of the Pacific or Atlantic Oceans...


"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineIluv747400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

The 1982 UN Convention on the Law of State placed the limits of a country's territorial sea at 12nm. An exclusive economic zone (EEZ) extends another 188nm (200nm from the coast) over which the country exclusive rights to all living and non-living resources. A country's sovereign airspace is all that is above the sovereign land, internal waters, and territorial sea of that country. Canada, for example, claims Hudson Bay to be internal waters and thus there is no international airspace there. International airspace is everything beyond 12nm from the coast of a country and includes the airspace over Antarctica (though watch out, Argentina definitely has an air force base down there).

User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2748 times:

Yeah, it's called Marambio! Big grin

Saludos
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2734 times:

International Airspace is best described as the space between the ears of many of the F/A's that have been posting here lately stating their weak case of how they are essential for the industry to function...


Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Thanks for all your feedback and explanations!

I assume that meens a lot of work for the correction editors now? Big grin

Patrick


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