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LY Goes Private  
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2452 times:

This weekend 55 years of a state ownership of LY will finally come to an end.
The new owners are the Wing Inc. (also the owners of Arkia) - 52.8%, Delek Investments - 3-5%, Peling Cargo - 8%, Employees - 8%.

The main issues LY will have to deal with in the foreseeable future:

1) Flights on Saturdays. Due to a prehistoric government decision LY does not operate scheduled pax flights on Saturdays (Cargo flights are operated, and the pax flights are operated via Sun-Dor). LY will have to come to a business decision on this issue,considering the fact that they can loose a significant amount of orthodox travelers. Such decision will probably not be reached within a first year of private operations.

2) Fleet. LY's fleet is somewhat outdated with an average age of 11 years. Next 2 years will bring an urgent need to replace 4 B742 classics and 2 B767s.
Since LY is no longer influenced by the government decisions and its ties with the US, Airbus can just stand a chance.

3) Destinations. LY will be no longer obliged to operate unprofitable routes. I hope that we will see some interesting changes in this field. I personally hope that SYD will be one of the first new destinations.

4) A possible entry to one of the major alliances.

5) Service. The quality of service has skyrocketed in LY during the recent decade, yet its Business and First products still lack the luxury of other companies.




2 things are endless: ignorance and space
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

> Fleet. LY's fleet is somewhat outdated with an average age of 11 years. Next 2 years will bring an urgent need to replace 4 B742 classics and 2 B767s.
Since LY is no longer influenced by the government decisions and its ties with the US, Airbus can just stand a chance.<

Yeah right. Have you seen Arkia's fleet?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

Here's some more business info:

Founded in 1949
Employees: 5500(450 pilots, 1200 F/As)
Income 1-9/2004 : 4.7 billion NIS
Net profit 1-9/2004 : 266 million NIS
Market value: 1.45 billion NIS

($1 = 4.32 NIS , as of 15/12/2004)



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

Does LY plan to continue their extraordinary security protocols? They are probably the most stringent world-wide.

User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

N1120a,

Arkia cannot be compared to LY, it's much smaller (and by the way their turboprops are ATR) and Airbus never even tried to sell them a/c.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

ANCFlyer,

As long as it's needed.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2409 times:

>Arkia cannot be compared to LY, it's much smaller<

Not that much, and they are still an airline. And guess what, the owners are the same now

>(and by the way their turboprops are ATR)<

Boeing does not make a turboprop, in fact no US manufacturer has made a major turboprop airliner since the 19 seat Metroliner, except for Beach with the Beach 1900, again only 19 seats


>...and Airbus never even tried to sell them a/c.<

Because they knew it was a lost cause



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

N1120a,
I still disagree with you, but lets just hope that this time it will be about commerce and not about politics. I am also sure that Airbus officials will try to offer an attractive deal in order to penetrate to the Israeli market, as small as it might be.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Just a quick update, does EL AL continue a ban on hiring Arab cabin crew? Whats the reason for this? I've read about this a few years back.


If there is a will, there is a way
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

EurostarVA,

There is no such ban. However, for obvious reasons the security screening for the applicants is rigorous, thus, de facto, one can only find Arab employees as part of the ground stuff.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

LY will have to come to a business decision on this issue,considering the fact that they can loose a significant amount of orthodox travelers. Such decision will probably not be reached within a first year of private operations

What makes this a business decision? Why can't the orthodox Jews simply not fly on the Saturday flights if they begin? I'd imagine they use other businesses that operate on Friday night-Saturday nights but simply don't use them during that time. Wouldn't this apply to choosing their airline?



That's why we're here.
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

LY4XELD,


The answer is that the ultra orthodox Jews will not fly LY if LY flies on Saturday. Why ? Stupid religious fundamentalism ("they are making other Jews work on Sat."). I hope LY can loose them as customers, they are only making the LY experience worse for other customers , by merely being on board.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2306 times:

LY7E7, I just hope privatization will not be the reason for closing smaller LY stations like my station (check username). Generally we are profitable per contribution reports, but who knows, Izzy is very tough.


just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

Since PRG is a major tourist and business destination for Israelis this route is certainly profitable, so I doubt it will be eliminated.

(But who knows, I'm not a LY employee)



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

LY7e7 - thanks, but
There is a big competition on the route OK flying daily and a lot of charters, surprisingly Travel Servis is holding biggest market share on the route. We hardly compete with 2 freq per week in W04/05.



just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

N1120a: >...and Airbus never even tried to sell them a/c.< (LY7E7)

Because they knew it was a lost cause

If Airbus believed it was a lost cause to sell its aircrafts to Arkia, why did they try to sell them to El-Al? This one was really a lost cause until now but still they tried every time (just to be humiliated again and again).




Long live the B747
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

They whole orthodox thing is a joke anyways. If LY starts flying on saturdays do you realy expect them to stop their pilgrimige back and forth to Brooklyn? Who else would they fly? El-Al has gone through a major transformation in service in the last few years, but it is time now to completely step out of the dark ages and start operating and making money 7 days a week.

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

LegendDC9-I hear what you are saying, but try convincing your employees, who most likely are orthodox Jews, to work on Saturday. Are you going to have the inflatable autopilot fly the planes? Are you going to put vending machines in the aircraft to do the safety demonstrations? Are you going to have the metal detectors do the work themselves, and have themselves stop passengers if they have something they shouldn't? Are you going to have machines do the Air Traffic Controlling in Israeli airspace? I hear what you are saying, but for orthodox Jewish people, the Sabbath is as sacred to them as Touchdown Jesus is to a Notre Dame football fan, Fenway Park is to a Boston Red Sox fan, and Old Trafford is to a Manchester United fan.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

SHUPirate1,

Do you really think that LY employs ultra orthodox workers??? And the small percentage of plain religious people will simply get their day off on Saturday as earlier. Never in my life I saw an orthodox in TLV or any other LY ground post. Think of what you're saying. (Do Amish people work in UA?)



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

LY7E7, u r right, there is very very limited number of real orthodox employees in LY, I m working for the airline 15 years already and I met few mostly in uniform store or similar departments, hence nothing will happen if they will not work on Saturday. But the story is that orthodox community is very influential and their boycot could cause a lot of damage to us.


just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

SHUPirate1, LY7e7 beat me to it, but I guess that is the perception out there. TLV does not close on Saturdays, all other carriers operate, including Arkia. LY was banned from doing so since it was government controlled and orthodox jews who have always been in the balance of power in the government, made it happen. Let's not forget the CO flys many orthodox jews to NYC and so did TW in it's day but you never hear complaints about them. The religious folks simply avoid flying on Saturdays and that's it. Welcome to the 20th century.


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2232 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

LegendDC9,

It's 21st , just in case you missed Big grin




2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

LY, Legend-I stand corrected, I guess I thought the religiousness in Israel was more deep-seated than it actually is. BTW, I'm not in the 20th century, I'm in the 21st.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

We are in the 21st, religious control is still in the middle ages.

User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

it was just an attempt at sarcasm which obviously did not translate well...

25 Yanksn4 : I read in the article that El Al flies cargo operations on Saturdays, does anyone know if these flights are operated by Christians? Does El Al even ha
26 Trvlr : Yanksn4: The cargo flights are regularly operated El Al employees, be they Jews, Christians, agnostics, whatever. The state ban affected only passenge
27 N1120a : >but lets just hope that this time it will be about commerce and not about politics
28 AirbusfanYYZ : While a tie up with an alliance would help LY. I highly doubt the traffic they bring will be sufficient to peak the interest of any of the alliances.
29 Amirs : "There is no such ban. However, for obvious reasons the security screening for the applicants is rigorous, thus, de facto, one can only find Arab empl
30 LY7E7 : Amirs - from an ex F/A. The things could have changed though (or at least I hope so) N1120a - Although this thread has nothing to do with the IAI, the
31 LY744 : What you guys are thinking about is first and foremost the Nesher, an identical copy of the Mirage 5 (50 of which were supposed to be delivered to Isr
32 Pmg1704 : When the EU or EADS starts giving Israel foreign aid to the tune of however many billions of dollars, then maybe they'll buy airbus. The USGovt isn't
33 N328KF : The ironic thing is that the Kfir wound up in U.S. service as the F-21, for dissimilar training. It was easier to support than it sounds, since it sha
34 LY7E7 : Pmg1704, It is true as long as you are dealing with the government. No private company in Israel is obliged to buy anything from the US. (Unless it is
35 FCKC : LY7E7 Did you hear something about next plane purchases by LY? 7E7 ? 777-300ER ? A350 ? What about Regional Jets ? I remember to have read on magazine
36 TLVFred : Flew LY this month with 2 kippa wearing stewards so they do employ orthodox jews. Really cannot believe how Israelis are so hateful of their fellow br
37 LY7E7 : FCKC, I don't really have any info on that. But it seems to me that a 777-300 and 330 are the machines that will suit LY needs the most (7e7 is too fa
38 PRGLY : First addition to the fleet will be 2 ex ATA 738, coming TLV beginning 2005
39 Post contains images Bwi757 : Greetings all, First post! As a long time lurker, I have always enjoyed airliners.net and the forums, and have learned much from the discussions.I can
40 Post contains images LY7E7 : Bwi757 Welcome on board One of the many differences between a religious belief and fundamentalism is that a religious belief does not affect other peo
41 Post contains images Rjpieces : LegendDC9-I hear what you are saying, but try convincing your employees, who most likely are orthodox Jews, to work on Saturday. Are you going to have
42 LegendDC9 : "It is a very common misconception that Israel is filled with Religious Jews....A large majority of the population is secular." As far as misconceptio
43 N1120a : >Last I checked, CO and TWA are/were not owned by Jews
44 Bwi757 : LY7E7 Thanks for the welcome. Since LY was state-owned, there was the ruckus to stop flying on Saturday. I am curious, are there similar reactions to
45 N328KF : Carl Icahn and Michael Milken never told TWA to not operate on Saturday.
46 Post contains images TW741 : PRGLY:...but who knows, Izzy is very tough Are you talking about "Izzy" Borovich? In case yes - I fully agree with "tough" (would even use a stronger
47 LY7E7 : are there similar reactions to Arika operating on Saturday? They operate on Sat. and everybody's happy with that.
48 PRGLY : TW741, yeah, he is the one I meant, i know him a little and I know a lot of people who know him either, and stronger word will suite, that is right
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