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Continental To Take Over LGA?  
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5982 times:

Just wondering what you all think about the idea of Continental beefing up their position at LGA so that they are ready to take over in the event that US Airways goes under. If Continental fills the shoes of US at LGA, assuming US goes under, they will completely dominate NYC, one of the most important aviation markets in the world.

In a few years, we could see CO with their own terminal at LGA operating the BOS-LGA-DCA Shuttle as well as some flights to a handful of other key business cities...All while having a superstrong global hub at EWR not too far away. Thoughts?

[Edited 2004-12-16 08:09:18]

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26357 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5932 times:

I personally think there is a greater likelihood of B6 beefing up at LGA than CO. Also, some of the WN people here have mentioned that the vaccum left by a failure of US may decongest an NYC airport enough to get them to finally go into the New York market


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

If congestion were the only factor they were considering... they would've moved into JFK long time ago.

There's a good bit more at play here  Big grin


User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 723 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5867 times:

Why didn't WN move into JFK earlier. They left a wide opening for B6? Anyone familiar with their thinking?

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5801 times:

I continue to assert that WN dropped the ball BIG TIME in leaving JFK open.

Yes, it can be congested during the transatlantic rush.... but one can essentially go bowling on JFK's runways during the morning and early afternoons.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5690 times:

"Just wondering what you all think about the idea of Continental beefing up their position at LGA so that they are ready to take over in the event that US Airways goes under."

No need for CO to do this - CO OWNS the US LGA terminal, and has the right to occupy the terminal should US default on its lease obligations.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineEzycrew From Spain, joined Oct 2001, 460 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5678 times:

Isn't LGA slot controlled? Can CO really pick up slots as it wants (even if US folds) ? Aren't slots there granted by some authorities (don't remember who though)?

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5670 times:

Avek-Continental does NOT own the US Airways Terminal. However, Continental owns the lease on the terminal, and US Airways subleases the terminal from them.

Ezycrew-LaGuardia Airport is one of two US Airports where the slots are actually governed by the FAA (the other, unsurprisingly, is Washington-National).



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13508 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5612 times:
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Avek-Continental does NOT own the US Airways Terminal.

Source, please? This is contrary to what I've been told as well.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5599 times:

If LGA is smart they'll close half the slots that open up and save them some delay headaches.

User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5494 times:

From CO's 2004 Shareholder Proxy:

"We remain contingently liable for US Airways’ obligations under a lease agreement between US Airways and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey related to the East End Terminal at LaGuardia airport. These obligations include the payment of ground rentals to the Port Authority and
the payment of principal and interest on special facilities revenue bonds issued by the Port Authority with an outstanding balance of $174 million at December 31, 2003 and having a final scheduled maturity in 2015. If US Airways defaults on these obligations, we will be required to cure the default,
and we would have the right to occupy the terminal after US Airways’ interest in the lease had been terminated."

I do stand corrected on the lease v. ownership issue; however, my bottom line assertion remains.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineWbmech From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

I don't think WN will enter the NYC market because of the expense involved and the way their business model is structured. If they enter this market their fixed costs would rise so high, that they would be just another airline when it comes to cost structure. Their low cost model isn't based on low labor costs,(they pay all their employees well) but I believe mostly on low airports costs. Thus going into all the secondary airports where the landing fees and terminal leases are next to nothing compared to NYC's big three as well as some other major airports around the country.

User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

2 things about LGA an the slots.
1-SHUP,
Yea, LGA is controlled by slots and it is up to the FAA not the airlines. Slots can be sold however. US will not sell their slots to a competitor- it is most likely that they will sell their slots to a bank or financing firm and pay them a fee per month-this to get some fast cash.
Even if the slots go to WN or B6, what gates are they going to use??? CO can reject them at the US terminal and there are very limited gates available in the Cantral terminal-rarely are there gates "open" next to each other.
2-SLOTS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE FOR WN! In their current business plan, slots are too expensive. The yields suck for the most part to florida, where I'm sure they'd want to fly. Add the slots cost on that! I don't think WN will be in the LGA market unless they undergo a large transformation.
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

Remember, prior to 9/11, CO has started a fairly large presence in LGA. There were mainline flights to Florida; there were a few RJ cities, like GRR and MSN, I believe, that were being served from LGA.

Trust me, CO is watching LGA closely. If US succumbs, CO will, I believe, beef up service there, be it with mainline and/or RJ'S.


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13508 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5181 times:
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Avek, thanks for the clarification on the lease vs. ownership issue of the terminal at LGA. I agree with Alpha 1/Falcon 84 though - look for CO to move their operations from the central terminal to the US (former EA shuttle) terminal and expand mainline and RJ ops from LGA considerably.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

CO has EWR, why do they need LGA?

User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13029 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5120 times:

There is no doubt that CO could take over the lease of the LGA terminal if US dies, but there are questions as to if they could get the slots. Assuming the slots could be transferred to CO, the next problems would be CO finding aircraft in their fleets to run out of LGA, expanding the ground staffing. I am quite sure CO would want to mostly run newer 737's or Jungle Jets out of there, but where could they get them from (ATA?). Also, what about the commuter flights under US's banner, could those slots be transferred or would the commuter lines keep them? If CO were to take over, I could see them going for the LGA-BOS-DCA shuttle service, as it is a cash cow and taking over the business base routes US operates (like Challotte), not so much the tourist (i.e. Florida) routes, which JetBlue could take over. I doubt WN will go into LGA due to the traffic, weather delays that would wreak havoc with their system.

User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5363 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

CO did run a bunch of RJs out of LGA to second-tier cities in the summer of 2001. Since these flights just about the first cancelled after 9/11, the expansion was presumably a flop. I'm not so sure they would want to try LGA again, except possibly for the BOS/DCA shuttle flights. One of these days the shuttle routes will be profitable again.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

>>CO has EWR, why do they need LGA?<<

1) LGA closest to NYC business center.
2) Market share.

There are few opportunities in the US domestic market for profitable growth... LGA opening up is one of them. And I believe it would complement CO's EWR hub nicely.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13508 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5054 times:
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CO has EWR, why do they need LGA?

While CO's presence at EWR is huge, millions of people in Queens, Brooklyn and Long Island find it inconvenient to get to, and would rather use LGA if they could. LGA can be a pain operationally for airlines, but it's worth it.

NYC being the number one market in the nation, gaining any market share there - even if you already have a large one to begin with - translates to millions of dollars to your bottom line.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Trust me, CO is watching LGA closely. If US succumbs, CO will, I believe, beef up service there, be it with mainline and/or RJ'S.

Any idea what mainline routes they are looking at?

Also, I was trying to think about how CO might run the Shuttle. Do you think they would have a dedicated fleet ( a la Delta) or operate normal mainline aircraft (a la US Airways)? It seems like the 319s and 733s that US and DL use are too much capacity today...Maybe a dedicated fleet of Embraer 190s?


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26357 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5021 times:

>LaGuardia Airport is one of two US Airports where the slots are actually governed by the FAA (the other, unsurprisingly, is Washington-National).<

Actually, the slots are governed by the DOT, not the FAA.

>I don't think WN will enter the NYC market because of the expense involved and the way their business model is structured.<

B6 has a lower CASM and flies out of JFK every day

>If they enter this market their fixed costs would rise so high, that they would be just another airline when it comes to cost structure.<

Now we know that is not true, otherwise LAX, SEA, BWI, DTW, STL, etc. would have already done that

>Thus going into all the secondary airports<

You mean like they don't do in LAX, SEA, BWI, DTW, STL, FLL, RDU, and more?

>where the landing fees and terminal leases are next to nothing<

See above and add that LAX is a good example of where WN flies from one of the most attractive terminals (Terminal 1, the first one in, and easy out because of the cut in the loop to 7 and the airport exit) that the need more space in?

>compared to NYC's big three as well as some other major airports around the country<

Do you know how easy B6 got it at JFK because they brought some low fare competition there?

I agree with Fred about WN missing the boat on JFK, though I think they have been leary about markets that are rather open to big snow and congestion delays, as went their experience at DEN



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineClipperaurora From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

CO has also been asking info about AIRWAYS in DCA......can anyone say Continental Shuttle!


//////// FLY THE FLAG
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4460 times:

Continental Shuttle Big grin


Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4362 times:

So, can we paint some of the CO planes red again and call them New York Air.

That would be really cool!


25 Petazulu : CO would be a great thing at LGA. I would fly them all the time if they were not holed up in EWR, which is so far and expensive to get too from the Up
26 TWFirst : >>which is so far and expensive to get too from the Upper East Side and Westchester
27 Petazulu : LGA, $25 cab ride from Upper East Side and 20 mins (max). EWR- a walk to the subway, 3 subway trains, a NJ transit train, and the Airport Train (1.5 h
28 TWFirst : >> I know what I am talking about here as I am a 30 year resident of the city.
29 ExFATboy : Actually, even on public transport, EWR is more expensive to get to than LGA from Manhattan - you can get to LGA for $2 if you really want to and have
30 TWFirst : True ExFATboy... Very True.
31 Jetbluefan1 : I actually think CO should try moving into the Long Island scene. JFK has too much competition, but I honestly think that they'd do well at ISP. The L
32 Post contains images EA CO AS : >> I know what I am talking about here as I am a 30 year resident of the city.
33 Flairport : just a few comments: you can get to LGA for $2 if you really want to and have the time: subway or bus to 125th St., M60 bus to LGA. Don't remind me...
34 Post contains images Annoyedfa : ok guys.... At expressjet the rumer is.. If Us airways goes under COEX will go in LGA with a specifically designed jet made for express.... It's basic
35 Ckfred : Remember one thing, American Eagle is already running a BOS-LGA-DCA shuttle. If it appears that US is about to shut down, AA starts to pull MD-80s out
36 Nycfuturepilot : I think it may be possible for WN to start flying to the NY area from MDW soon if ATA folds. There would be no LCC competition on this route and MDW i
37 TWFirst : EA CO AS: Although as usual, your post contributes nothing to the topic at hand, I'll respond by reiterating that length of time that one has lived in
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