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KLM-MAS Boost Ties For 2005  
User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Having travelled back on KL810 last week which was overbooked in both World Business Class and in Economy - I had a brief chat with a KLM employee at check-in at KUL.

According to him, KLM and Malaysia Airlines have already signed a plan to boost their ties and increase their AMS-KUL services which have been performing very well over last few months. Apparently, KLM will increase its AMS-KUL-CGK route to daily from Summer 2005 and operate the 744-full pax on certain days to meet the demand on this route. MAS will continue to operate the 744s currently used on a daily basis.

Flicking through KLMs Holland Herald - KLM already prints MAS' entire route network as part of Skyteam's map and it was great to hear them announce,

"...on behalf of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, its Skyteam Partners and Malaysia Airlines - welcome aboard KLM flight 810 to Amsterdam this evening..."

lets hope we much more developing from their partnership and MAS' eventual inclusion into Skyteam!!!



20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

I too hope MH will become a skyteam member.

I would say that the AMS-KUL-CGK route is a success because of high demand. Wonder why GA pulled out? This is probably helping KL and MH on this route.

drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

MAS would be a logic addition to SkyTeam. A Southeast Asian airline is still missing there, with Korean too far northeast. Currently SkyTeam doesn't have much to offer for travellers on the way from Europe to Australia or certain areas in Asia. And KUL would be a perfect hub as well.


Regards
Udo


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3323 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

There is another major reason for this....

MH and VS have a ten year codeshare agreement on UK-KUL-Australia, which expires June 2005.
VS will obviously not renew, as they now operate to SYD in their own right, and SQ is now a 49% shareholder.

Closer ties between MH and KLM into Europe is much needed.

and i agree, MH to skyteam is the way to go...



User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

Virgin Atlantic only code-shares between LHR and KUL and beyond to MEL and SYD - so is not really MAS' European partner. MAS stations across the UK and Ireland currently use bmi to feed onto its flights out of LHR for KUL. I believe MAS and KLM are also exploring the option of using KLMuk to transfer passengers via AMS - but with the current almost twice daily 747s already operating at great loads - this might be difficult in terms of capacity.

KLM currently feeds Scandinavian and certain mainland European markets onto the AMS-KUL flights whilst MAS provides feeder services from Indonesia (together with Garuda), Australia and NZ in the opposite direction - and at the KL end - Singapore is really feeling this squeeze from both GA and MH.

I hope they expand their code-share as the route should be able to support an additional third daily service (especially if UK offline stations route via AMS) given the fact that I flew AMS-KUL-AMS 4 times this year in Feb, May, August and Nov/Dec and on every flight - there was not a single seat empty on either KLM or MAS flight in World Business Class/Golden Club. This third daily would also enable better connections at KUL since both flights currently leave KUL near midnight and there is no daytime westbound service.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

KLM-operated AMS-KUL-CGK flights (KL808/810) will indeed become daily as of July 01, 2005. Already earlier than that, KLM will boost capacity on the route by the introduction of the B744 full pax on certain days at the beginning of the summer schedule.

Also starting July 01, Singapore will receive daily dedicated KLM service as the twice weekly extension to Jakarta will cease to exist in favor of a tag on to the increased KUL frequencies.



User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

Okay fellas,

A little history here. Ass you all know, KLM recently started flying nonstop to Manila. Before doing that, Manila was an extension of the Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur service.
A couple of years ago, when KLM tried to strengthen the MH cooperation, they decided to route the Manila flight via Bangkok, making the KUL run a point-to-point flight. According to a friend of mine (who is in Revenue) KLM didn't do very well on that flight and even when the flights were full, most of the passengers were low yield.
The next season KLM decided to re-run that Manila flight via KUL.

So hearing that they're making KUL/CGK a daily service, well, that's good news. But then again, CGK is a very important market too (for KLM), so let's stay optimistic!



User currently offlineFlyingdutchboy From Netherlands, joined May 2000, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

A couple of years ago, when KLM tried to strengthen the MH cooperation, they decided to route the Manila flight via Bangkok, making the KUL run a point-to-point flight. According to a friend of mine (who is in Revenue) KLM didn't do very well on that flight and even when the flights were full, most of the passengers were low yield.

Okay, let's forget the cargo. According to a friend of mine (Sales), KLM doing very very well on AMS-KUL-AMS. Try booking yourself on KLM WBC as "low yield passenger".



User currently offlineSQNo1 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 687 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

Oh let's hope they send the T7 to SIN.

SQno1


User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

The fact that I couldn't get a WBC seat on this last trip was what prompted my conversation with the KLM agent and KUL. My flight back to AMS was 3 overbooked in WBC as I found out that night and he kindly mentioned to me that if there had been empty seats in WBC - my FD Elite membership should have placed me way up there on the upgrade list but the flights have been so full of late that - they've been offloading passengers on most nights to travel on any other MAS flight to Europe with connections for AMS or at the last resort on Austrian Airlines via Vienna.

With the talk of the Malaysian Ringgit being re-pegged - yields can only look to improve in the future - although - I agree £2600 rtn for a WBC seat LHR-AMS-KUL rtn is hardly low-yield anyway.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1990 times:

A couple of years ago, when KLM tried to strengthen the MH cooperation, they decided to route the Manila flight via Bangkok, making the KUL run a point-to-point flight. According to a friend of mine (who is in Revenue) KLM didn't do very well on that flight and even when the flights were full, most of the passengers were low yield.

Okay, let's forget the cargo. According to a friend of mine (Sales), KLM doing very very well on AMS-KUL-AMS. Try booking yourself on KLM WBC as "low yield passenger".


For a starter, a guy in Sales might not really know how the airline was doing yield wise on the route, whereas a guy in Revenue might have a better picture.

Fact is that KLM returned the AMS-KUL-MNL routing after just one season, because, obviously the AMS-KUL-AMS route wasn't a great success. One of the problems at the time was the schedule of the flight at that time, with the westbound flight being a daylight operation that had fewer connections ex KUL available than MH's midnight departure.

But even right now KUL is not as important a station as it's hyped up to be in here as evidenced by the fact that SIN and not KUL received dedicated KLM service, whereas KUL continues to share its flight with another station, just like before.

If anything, the recent network changes at KLM Asia point at the strength of the SIN, MNL and CGK stations, with both MNL and SIN receiving dedicated flights and CGK receiving more guaranteed seats to Europe than during the time the station was linked to SIN. Obviously, also MH is operating a daily KUL-AMS flight, but then again so is SQ on the SIN-AMS sector, albeit with a smaller aircraft.

The plain fact that one has a hard time finding seats on the AMS-KUL sectors or that flights go out at full capacity, even in WBC, indicates very little about the actual financial performance of the route.



User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

KLM currently feeds Scandinavian and certain mainland European markets onto the AMS-KUL flights

Strictly speaking, MH currently codeshares on KLM flights only to 5 european cities, all in Scandinavia : CPH, OSL, GOT, HEL & also ARN (to remain despite MH's recent KUL-ARN nonstop services). Would be great if MH could venture further into the european market via its partner KLM to other cities, as in the case of SQ-LH partnership. Feeding passengers from UK regional airports via AMS would be a brilliant move, as the present arrangement via LHR is not terribly convenient for connecting pax - I myself have been on a BD connecting flight to DUB and it really was a loooooong walk. My brother who is now studying there, has been flying MAN-KUL instead for the last couple of years, just to avoid the hassle of transferring in LHR.

[Edited 2004-12-17 13:29:05]

User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Wonder why GA pulled out?

GA mentioned low yield on the route as one of the reasons. Given that the frequency on AMS-SIN-CGK was very low compared to its competitors I think that the main reason is indeed the fact that GA only got the leftovers intead of the high yield pax.


User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Lj good point, but can GA really compete on the Business sector against SQ, KL, MH etc...? Think not. Which is a shame.

I will certainly miss those GA aircrafts in AMS.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1706 times:

I will certainly miss those GA aircrafts in AMS.

Garuda will return to AMS, if all goes well with a better product and a higher frequency. When GA withdrew from the route, they operated 4 weekly frequencies, which was just not competitive compared to KLM's daily operation and other daily options including MH and SQ.



User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1572 times:

HW-IBS,

Good point, dude! Thanks!

Maybe KLM can prove to be a success in the KUL-CGK section so the flight would be profitable for both KUL and CGK pax out of Amsterdam.
Someday KLM will fly nonstop to CGK and I just hope they'll find a way to keep the daily frequency for KUL!


User currently offlineMEA From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1515 times:

Can a B744 or B777 fly AMS to CGK direct in both directions?

User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

AA B777-200:

If KLM goes nonstop to CGK, maybe they could extend it's KUL flight to a second Indonesian destination. Surabaya or Bali come to mind...


User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 505 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1437 times:

JoFMO,

In the past KLM has served both Denpasar and Surabaya (both via Singapore), but I guess yields and loadfactors weren't all that good and KLM probably decided to focus on CGK.
Indonesia is a former Dutch colony and there is a huge Indonesian population in The Netherlands. I would love to see KLM return to SUB and DPS!

KLM dropped a lot of destinations in the East (SYD, MEL, SGN, DAC, NGO, CTS, SUB, DPS, CMB, CCU, KHI) and it's too bad I don't hear any plans of returning to any of these cities.



User currently offlineJrebel From Sweden, joined Aug 2000, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1325 times:

"Try booking yourself on KLM WBC as "low yield passenger".

Given that KLM has very few C class seats on its long haul aircraft (less than any major airline I can think of), a full WBC cabin may not neccesarily be an indication of profitability. Not all WBC pax travel on J and C fares either. Apart from the Z fares, there are all sorts of negotiated (corporate) fares out there. Then there are the operational upgrades, pax on FF miles, etc.

johan


User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1294 times:

Although MAS officially only code-shares on KLMs Scandinavian routes - each time I have arrived at Schiphol on MH16 - the crew have always announced the gates for connecting passengers to Madrid, Barcelona, Milan and other cities - so there must be some cooperation in transferring passengers to other European stations too.

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