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Question: Upper Deck On 747 Freighters  
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6089 times:

Just out of curiosity... On 747 Freighers, what is the upper deck (aft of the flightdeck, of course) used for?

For some reason, I had this vision of them carrying regular (i.e. pax version) seating on the upper deck, perhaps because most pictures I've seen have the normal row of windows up there -- even if there aren't any mainlevel windows, for example:

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Photo © Miguel Cláudio
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Photo © Michael Carter


but while looking at the pictures of NW 747 Freighters from another thread, I noticed that they don't have any windows at all up there:

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Photo © Sokol Ymeri
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Photo © Michael Carter


Which made me think:

What is the upper deck used for? Now that I think of it, regular pax seating configuration would make absolutely no sense... Some seating for deadheading crew would make some sense to me (doesn't mean it happens). Crew rest would make a lot of sense, but without windows I would imagine it would be a tad tight/dark... Plus that seems like a ton of space if all of it is used for crew rest.

Also, just out of curiosity are there flight deck doors on 74s in cargo service? How about lavs (I had never thought about it...Then again, with the length of some flights I would imagine it as a necessity)

Thanks,

Lincoln


CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6037 times:

Non Rev PAX!!!
I remember flying on the Tiger out of ANC.... sitting upstairs... they had a F/A to deal with the N/R's.... It was awesome... if there was space you were on!!! better than any First Class service I have ever experienced anywhere.. and it was for us N/R's!!!!
Ahh the good old days...



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineN867bx From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5986 times:

My mom was a maintenance controller at NW (retired now) I had the opportunity to take a walk thru a 74F right after a C check. Its been about 20 years but I seem to remember only the front half of the upper deck had a floor. The back half of the upper deck was without a floor and one could see the main deck thru a maze of wires and cables. A net was in place to prevent a person from falling onto the main deck, but I suppose the wires and cables would catch em anyways. If I remember correctly their were 6 seats (or was it 12) and yes there was a door on the cockpit. I sure someone out there knows way more than me on this subject.

User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5919 times:

There is something like this :

UPS B742F + Cargolux B744F :

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Photo © Tim Lane
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Photo © Jonathan Rankin



Used by the Crew and additionnal crew during long flights and/or Non-Rev PAX, when the airline accept them on Cargos...


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25330 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5867 times:

One of the best ways to fly!

Many cargo B747s have both first class style seats and crew rest bunks.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5818 times:

And how will the upper deck of converted former pax 744s look like? What do they do with all that room? Is it possible to put small containers there?

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5792 times:

And how will the upper deck of converted former pax 744s look like? What do they do with all that room? Is it possible to put small containers there?

For such a small area, the costs of installing a cargo door for the upper deck would not be worth it....Also, I'm not sure if any container is suited for the upper deck, again another cost


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

The back half of the converted 744SF upper decks will be just like the 743SF upper decks: not used. The floor of the upper deck intrudes down into the main deck cargo space, and unless that floor is removed/moved upwards, you cannot fit full-height pallets in there. Look closely at photos of 743SFs (Dragonair, and the KE photo in the thread starter) and you'll notice the windows on the rear half have been eliminated.


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5708 times:

Polar's upper decks are fitted with bunks for crew rest facilities on flights that require an augmented crew. I believe Atlas has the same thing.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17038 posts, RR: 66
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5681 times:

Just a note: On new build 744Fs the upper deck is the one from the 742. So there is not all that much space.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5585 times:

At SQ we have 6 first class style seats in the upper bunk, just like Cargolux. We also have 2 bunks at the rear of the upper deck for augmented crews.

It is not uncommon to carry grooms when you are transporting horses. I that case, you would have the grooms ride in the upper deck. Total occupancy of the upper deck and cockpit can't exceed 8 on the 744F.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5542 times:


It is not uncommon to carry grooms when you are transporting horses


In such a case, would they be allowed on the main deck while in flight to check on the horse?



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Yes, in a case where grooms are along, they do have access to the main deck during flight. All they have to do is take a portable O2 bottle with them.

User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5501 times:

Someone could tell me if this is true: Didn't CargoLux have a regular passenger configured upper deck that they actually sold seats on for fare paying passengers on their B742F's?


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5489 times:


All they have to do is take a portable O2 bottle with them.


Why the need for the O2 bottle? The main deck has to be pressurized for the horse. Is it for emergency purposes?



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17038 posts, RR: 66
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5489 times:

Yes, in a case where grooms are along, they do have access to the main deck during flight. All they have to do is take a portable O2 bottle with them.

Just a clarification. The main deck is pressurized right? So I guess this is just a precaution? and dare I ask what would happen to the horses if the main deck depressurized?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineWbmech From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Just a guess but the POB is probably for the safety of the groom. There is no supplemental oxygen on the main deck of a freighter although on the upper deck it is still in the psu's as well as the pob's stored upstairs. IF a sudden depressurization occurs at altitude, who cares about the horses at that point. By the way, the main deck and upper deck are in the same pressure vessel therefore they would be at the same pressure altitude throughout the flight. The temps might be slightly off due to the different zones though.

User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5437 times:

On the 744F there is no supplemental O2 on the main deck. In case of a loss of pressurization the grooms need supplemental O2 and the only way to get is is with the POB. As far as the horses go, I guess that's what insurance is for.

The 744F does an extremely good job at maintaining temps on the main deck. In fact, the 744F has a different cargo temp system than the classic freighters. It's not uncommon to take cargo, such as medicine that has to be kept in a very specific temp range 5-7C. We can reconfigure the cooling to have just one compartment at that temp and yet have the other compartments at a more normal temp.


User currently offlineTod From Denmark, joined Aug 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5393 times:

And how will the upper deck of converted former pax 744s look like?

The u/d on the CX (B-HOU) 744SF that will be converted in Xiamen this spring will have the floor ending near the doors and I believe that the u/d floor beams aft of there will be modified. The 4U lav and existing interior forward of the doors will remain in place. I don't know if the J class seats remain.


User currently offlineN867bx From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 339 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5228 times:

Could a horse install an oxygen mask with a hoof?

User currently offlineDbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 887 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5174 times:

"Someone could tell me if this is true: Didn't CargoLux have a regular passenger configured upper deck that they actually sold seats on for fare paying passengers on their B742F's?"

Is that even legal? For some reason, I thought it wasn't possible...but i could be totally mistaken.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

dare I ask what would happen to the horses if the main deck depressurized?

Glue Factory? Alpo Can?  Nuts


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4003 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

The father-in-law of a friend of mine is working for a cargo airline operating 742Fs. They are travelling non-rev to New York on the upper deck all the time (needless to say - and get dirt cheap hotel deals in New York through the airline as well....)

User currently offlineKBGRbillT From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

Atlas and Polar 74F's usually have a combination of some seats, a table, small galley, and a crew rest(beds) area occupying the upper deck (non-SUD A/C).

User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3769 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4735 times:

Backing up what KBGR said, on the "World Air Routes" Atlas Air video, they show the upper deck of the Atlas 747-200F before the DFW-ATL leg & from what can be seen, there is a small passenger cabin similar to the ones shown above from UPS & Cargolux.

DeltaRules



Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
25 Havik747 : here is a link to KLMs 744ERF and upper deck http://freightergame.klmcargo.com/747_400.htm#
26 Post contains links Vs346 : http://freightergame.klmcargo.com/747_400.htm# for us lazy folks.
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