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Man Tries To Open Door On 747 @ 30,000 Ft.  
User currently offlineKatanapilot From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 170 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14535 times:

On a Cathay Pacific flight

"Hong Kong - A passenger on a Tokyo-to-Hong Kong flight tried to open the emergency door of a jumbo jet at an altitude of more than 9 000m, a news report said on Friday.

Anthony Yeung, 37, partially twisted open the handle of the door on the flight on November 7 before cabin crew and a fellow passenger restrained him, the South China Morning Post reported.

At a court appearance on Thursday, sound engineer Yeung said he had heard "voices in his head" before trying to open the door on the Cathay Pacific flight, the newspaper said.

Yeung was charged with carrying out an act likely to endanger an aircraft and was released on bail until January 27. He was told to prepare medical records for his next appearance.

The case is the first of its kind to be brought in Hong Kong and the offence, under the Aviation Security Ordinance, carries a maximum jail term of life.

Speaking after the hearing, Cathay Pacific spokesperson Carolyn Leung said it was "almost impossible" to open an emergency door during flight because of the differences in air pressure.

Pilots are alerted if anyone touches the emergency doors, Leung said, so that staff can intercept any person attempting to tamper with them. - Sapa-dpa"

[http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=126&art_id=qw1103259064683B252]

I always wondered if that was possible!
don't know if there's already been a thread about this...don't care either.  Smile

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4106 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14451 times:

This has happened before. Thank god he didn't open it!

Some people are so stupid and selfish, there's 300 or so others to think of!

Sam



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineVisityyj From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14440 times:

Yeung was charged with carrying out an act likely to endanger an aircraft and was released on bail until January 27. He was told to prepare medical records for his next appearance.

Speaking after the hearing, Cathay Pacific spokesperson Carolyn Leung said it was "almost impossible" to open an emergency door during flight because of the differences in air pressure.


So which is it, 'likely to endanger' or 'almost impossible' ?
(I know the answer BTW)


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14201 times:

What would have happened if he had successfully opened the door? Would the plane have a disastrous decompression? There should be safeguards to prevent this type of thing from happening.


Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14168 times:

Considering there are several tons of pressure on a single door, it is pretty likely that a human is not able to open such a door in-flight.

SailorOrion


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14098 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



Considering there are several tons of pressure on a single door, it is pretty likely that a human is not able to open such a door in-flight.


I believe on the 777, there are pins that lock the doors into place when airborne, anyway. I would assume there is a similar safeguard on the 74.


2H4






Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14054 times:

yea i believe that this isn't really humanly possible because the doors open inward correct?

User currently offlineType-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13931 times:

The doors and emergency exits on most pressurized aircraft are really plugs. They are larger than the opening of the window/door and the internal pressure keeps them sealed nice and tight against the aircraft frame. I think the thought is that if a person is trying to open the door or window, what will they do for an encore!

User currently offlineCyrillim From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13900 times:

Depending on the location of the door, the most the man could do is to crack the door open (with a lot of force) and depressurize the cabin. The door would not actually open all the way.

Certain exit doors on the 747 are designed for them to be opened in mid flight to release smoke should there be a fire in the cabin. This is only done at a lower altitude so I would imagine at 9000m the guy would have a pretty hard time trying to crack the door open. Kudos to the crew and passengers who managed to restrain this man.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineDl757md From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1562 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13867 times:

I'm not sure if the 747 doors are equipped with flight locks like the 777 which lock the latches at airspeed above 80 knots. The 767 doors have no flight locks but the signal to unlock the door goes through the PSEU-Proximity Sensor Electronics Unit- which checks to see that door is actually closed before unlocking it. The PSEU may also look at the air/ground relay and determine not to unlock the door if the plane is in the air but I couldn't find anything about this.

Even if there is no flight locking procedure on the door at 30000 feet with a cabin altitude of 8000 feet(highest allowed) the pressure differential is about 6.5psid. The door is about 78 inches by 36 inches which is 2808 square inches. So the force pushing out on the door is over 9 tons! Remember the door opens inward off of the door stops before it goes up or out. Even the door emergency assist system wouldn't be able to overcome this amount of force.

The door won't open.

Dl757Md



757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
User currently offlineKatanapilot From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13588 times:

so if you want to be really really literal, this man did nothing to endanger himself or others. he might get a life sentence for intent alone. ha ha

sucker


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13497 times:

Forgot about the whole "plug" issue with doors. Good to know some crazy passenger can't just get up and open the door mid-flight.  Big thumbs up


Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1619 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 13417 times:

Hmm, I wanna hear more about being able to open a door on a 747 to let smoke out of the cabin?

Should this be a whole new topic?

M


User currently offlineCCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 846 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 days ago) and read 13351 times:

The 747 has to be depressurised before opening the door for smoke evacuation that's why the A/C is flown to 10,000' or below so the pax can breath and the masks don't all drop.

There is no way for a human to open the door while the A/C is pressurised the handle may move but it's the linkages that are failing not the door.

Think about it, a door is (for arguments sake) 6' X 3' or 72"X36" which is 2592 square inches @ say 7psi = 18,144 pounds which is around 8 tons.


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Now lets talk about the "upper and lower gate"(747) say 4"X36"=144 square inches which @ 7psi is 1008 pounds so the linkage will have to be able to withstand 1000 pounds just to "crack" the upper and lower gates and that's 1000 pounds for each gate. Now if the mechanical advantage is there to open the gates this will not depressurise the A/C as the outflow valves can accommodate a leak of this size as each is around 288 square inches, even so if the leak was anymore the A/C would only slowly depressurise and the crew can take action and be below 14,000' in a few minutes.

CCA

[Edited 2004-12-18 05:39:48]


C152 G115 TB10 CAP10 SR-22 Be76 PA-34 NDN-1T C500 A330-300 A340-300 -600 B747-200F -200SF -400 -400F -400BCF -400ERF -8F
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31702 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13275 times:

What would have happened if he had successfully opened the door
At that Altitude,it would be Humanely Impossible,considering the Cabin Differntial pressure acting against the door.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineTraveler From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 241 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13221 times:

Try to open the door of you car when you are driving over 100 miles per hour. Good luck !

That should answer the question about an airliner's door !

Traveler


User currently offlineTravelplus From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13065 times:

Why would someone even think to open such a door? I mean come on did this guy drink too much Hooch Vodka that would cause him to try to do such an act? I mean even a 5 year old knowes not to open such a door? Is this guy Autistic with a comorbidity of Mental Retardation? I'm glad the flight attendants tried to stop him. This guy deserves a long prison sentence unless he's Bipolar. Come one why would you board the plane if your so insane?

User currently offlineAAplatnumflier From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 13049 times:

Isn't it impossible to open it? Also as Traveler said at speeds of 100 it is hard, but 500 and with locks I would bet it would be close to impossible to do.

User currently offlineCCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 846 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12474 times:

If smoke/fumes severe and smoke source determined to be in the cabin:

LANDING ALTITUDE SWITCH................. MAN
LANDING ALTITUDE CONTROL..................... SET 8000-8500 FEET
Set landing altitude between 8000 and 8500 to command cabin altitude to 8,000 feet.
EQUIPMENT COOLING SELECTOR.... NORM
DESCENT.................................. ACCOMPLISH
Level off at the lowest safe altitude or 8,500 feet, whichever is higher.
OUTFLOW VALVE MANUAL SWITCHES..................................................ON
OUTFLOW VALVES MANUAL CONTROL.............................................. OPEN
AIRSPEED........................ 200 KIAS OR LESS
DOORS TO BE OPENED............ DETERMINE
If smoke/fumes concentration determined to be in the forward section of the cabin, a Door 1 or 2 and a Door 4 or 5 must be opened.
If smoke/fumes concentration determined to be in the aft section of the cabin, open a door 2 only.
Direct personnel to open door(s). Position mode selector handle to MANUAL and rotate and secure handle in the 12 o’clock position.
When smoke/fumes evacuated: Direct personnel to close door(s).
Position mode selector handle to AUTO. The forward door must be closed before closing the aft door.

CCA



C152 G115 TB10 CAP10 SR-22 Be76 PA-34 NDN-1T C500 A330-300 A340-300 -600 B747-200F -200SF -400 -400F -400BCF -400ERF -8F
User currently offlineGary2880 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12074 times:

this is one of the main reasons why i hate flying, i like to sit as far from the emergancey exits as possible, when i do have to fly i keep my eye on the person at the exit door just incase they try anything funny or are mentally loopy, the 1 thing that really scared me about flying is if someone trys to open the door *shudder*

User currently offlineSpeedbudgie From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11392 times:

"Is this guy Autistic with a comorbidity of Mental Retardation? I'm glad the flight attendants tried to stop him. This guy deserves a long prison sentence unless he's Bipolar."

You honestly couldn't come up with a better way to get your point across?


User currently offlinePilotGirl From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10938 times:

There was an incident, perhaps 5-10 years ago, of a BA 747 climbing out of Heathrow or Gatwick. One of the main passenger door handles started moving by itself - as if to open the door. Presumable some odd reaction with the settling air pressure. The flight crew called the BA engineers, who explained it was impossible for the door to open.

The FAs were so freaked out about it that, despite the reassurances of the engineers, that the 747 ended up dumping its entire fuel load and returning to the airport.

I never saw anything further about the reason for the door handle moving. As far as it seemed at the time they confirmed no fault on the door.


User currently offlineLrockeagle From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9747 times:

The guy said he heard voices in his head? I get those too, but I learned to ignore them. Sometimes they're so funny.  Smile Geez I crack myself up.

User currently offlineRaivavae From France, joined Jul 2001, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9484 times:

it is absolutely impossible to open a door(passenger) in flight.
If yes this would have been done already before!


User currently offlineVigilante3 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9472 times:

Impossible to open plug type doors soon after takeoff..however...cargo doors for 747s and others are non plug type and can blow/rupture open in flight leading to inflight disintegration.

All doors should be plug type.

United Airlines Flight 811 and corazon.com give details.


25 Gearup : There was an incident involving A Saudi L1011 a number of years ago. There was an in-flight fire somewhere in the cabin and the aircraft made a succes
26 DC10Heavy : My question to the crew and pax that restrained him is, did you beat him like a rug ? If so, what can I get you at the Bar when we deplane this Heavy!
27 ChiGB1973 : Touche' I found it extremely hard to believe about evacuating smoke through a door on a 747 in-flight, so I know someone at United who confirmed that
28 Raivavae : you must make the difference between "opening" a door in flight and "unlocking" a door to perform smoke evacuation. There is a "big" difference in bet
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