Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7702 posts, RR: 55 Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 12178 times:
Here we go!
I must say that India is going to be a lucrative market, Air-India are a good airline but talk about UNDER-ACHIVERS! There are Indian communities everywhere, and most of them fly Emirates to visit the mother country. Those 43 A380s should be in Air-India livery. As an Airbus supporter, I hope they sweep the board. What remains is the perennial question, where the hell are Boeing? The more I think about it, the harder it is to see them dig their way out of the hole they've created for themselves.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Qwerty From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11853 times:
Ok back to the original question then: What are they going to do about it?
Relocate from Chicago to Dayton. Would that make you happy -- they would then really be in the middle of the nowhere.
I personally will not fly a domestic U.S. carrier using Airbus equipment if I can find a comparable flight on Boeing equipment. What are you doing about it? I fly Song and even Ted over jetBlue all the time for this reason. I also will not step foot on Frontier if I don't have to.
Col From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2040 posts, RR: 22 Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11774 times:
Wow, Querty you show them, your stance is obviously teaching Airbus and our European members a lesson. Good on you, it is obviously helping Boeing also, all that guaranteed revenue to Boeing customers. I just wish we all did as you, then Boeing could continue on its same poor course and could keep market share.
Its Christmas, so I am not going to tell you what I really think about your post, but it makes us State siders seem a little immature.
Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4934 posts, RR: 47 Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11728 times:
I personally will not fly a domestic U.S. carrier using Airbus equipment if I can find a comparable flight on Boeing equipment. What are you doing about it? I fly Song and Ted over jetBlue all the time for this reason.
Qwerty From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 377 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11624 times:
Tell me, Qwerty, what planes does Ted fly?
Very true. I may have posted myself in to a corner here.
jetBlue has never bought anything else so it's like I said, I avoid them whenever possible. Often a Ted flight is most affordable. Usually I can get on a U.S. mainline for the same $$$. My post does hint that I don't fly on Airbus - this just isn't true. I DO, however, try not to. I'm not going to sacrifice money for a more expensive Beoing-equipped flight. But all other things equal, I will take a MD, Boeing, or Canadair equipment over Eurobus.
if charity is the only way to bring Boeing back to the top, then they're in much bigger trouble than predicted.
Read above, it's by no means charity. I just try to put myself on U.S.-made, planes. And I bet you care less whether a 12-year old or an adult sewed your jeans. It's the same point.
And, by the way, who's predicting Boeing's death. Harry Stone-however-you-spell-his-last-name is cleaning house.
Scbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 11360 posts, RR: 50 Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11613 times:
i have seen a movie where someone was running coast to coast...
I take the Forest Gump approach to flying - it's like a box of chocolates. On my last trip I flew on a CO ERJ (first trip on CO, first ERJ flight). It just makes things more interesting.
Meanwhile, back on topic.
Even with 52 firm 7E7 orders this year, it looks like Boeing will be some way behind Airbus in booked and announced orders as well as deliveries. We will have to wait some time to see if some of the measures that Boeing is taking will have the desired results - reduced 777 manufacturing costs, revamping the sales team, increasing 737 production rates.
Adding to their other woes, the mainstay of their order books for so long (the US majors) are in pretty bad shape and may not recover sufficiently to be able to help Boeing for some time.
Neverest From France, joined Dec 2004, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11517 times:
Querty
This sort of nationalism has long past. I was very happy that Air France bought 777s instead of Airbus, to affirm that the best equipment for the price should win rather than quaint nationalistic preferences. We should encourage competition and development of better products and consider the entire world as one country.
Picarus From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 298 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11449 times:
Personally, I believe if Stonecipher is serious about " cleaning house," he'd tender his own resignation. He MO is well known from his days at MDD. He nixed MDD's commercial operation by refusing to invest in new technologies and airframe development, and now, some speculate, me included, that he's taken the same mental approach to Boeing's commercial operations--the 7E7 notwithstanding. I'm not convinced that his hand wasn't forced by the board or outside influences in that decision.
Regardless, the "bet the company" spirit is long gone. I have a hunch that Boeing "old-timers" miss the good ole' days.
Airbus3801 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1089 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10457 times:
Ok back to the original question then: What are they going to do about it?
Relocate from Chicago to Dayton. Would that make you happy -- they would then really be in the middle of the nowhere.
I personally will not fly a domestic U.S. carrier using Airbus equipment if I can find a comparable flight on Boeing equipment. What are you doing about it? I fly Song and even Ted over jetBlue all the time for this reason. I also will not step foot on Frontier if I don't have to.
Well hopefully now that everyone else has told you, Ted flies AIRBUS! In fact, United has the most Airbus aircraft then any other airline in the U.S. (I think). I don't see what you have against your eurobusses , because lots of people need to realize that Boeing is in trouble and pretending that airbus makes crap is stupid because if they were, why would so many people buy them?
Sorry if I come out hard and I don't mean offense to qwerty at all, it's just my $0.02
DeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1698 posts, RR: 38 Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10230 times:
Well Airbus3801, you threw your $0.02 in and I'm afraid I'm going to have to give you some change back. Northwest actually has the largest Airbus fleet in the US with its mixture of A319, A320, and A330 aircraft.
As far as Boeing being in a present state of hardship, it's going to take them several years to regain the market share that they once had. If you think about it, the 737NG's are still selling strong and will continue to sell strong for the forseeable future. The 7E7 is consolidating two aircraft (757 and 767) into one. The 777 is seeing fair sales, and will continue to sell well for quite a while (God it's hard to think that it's been 10 years already for the 777 in operation). The 747, is supposedly going to see a major revamp in an advanced series---and if Boeing can pull off what they did with the -400 series they'll be okay. Things don't happen overnight, but give it some time and Boeing will come out fine. Kudos to Airbus though, they've had a tremendous year!
Edit: Sorry, grammatical error.
[Edited 2004-12-22 02:05:01]
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Soaringadi From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 472 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9904 times:
Not that I "hate" Airbus or something.... and neither do I want to start an arguement but I recently came accross this quote:
"....the A340-600 sux, the constant oscillationns from turbuklence' make you spill your 'caf'e au lait'....."
Captain a340-600
These are the exact words the captain used. No personal opinions here since I have never flown on one.
Also they did say that it was the quietest aircraft though.
So coming back to the topic.... I think that Boeing is going to be helped by such things if the captains keep on saying these things.
Francoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3195 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9853 times:
Actually, I think electing to fly a single aircraft make does not help the concerned aircraft maker.
I sounds more like a desperate measure, or pity!
If you want to help Boeing react, you should on the contrary fly the competition. Then I guess when Boeing realizes that airlines AND passengers are not 'happy' with the product and turn to the competition, especially the 'local' customers, it'll be the needed slap in the face.
That's kind of how Airbus was born after all...
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
25 Cannikin: "If you want to help Boeing react, you should on the contrary fly the competition." Thats like going to a sporting event and cheering for the other te
26 BlueSky1976: Cedarjet: I suggest You studying the market effects of a little thing called "duopoly". In a nutshell: It's a condition where market is being controll
27 CO737800: When the US market picks up again then Boeing will be back on top in terms of sales
28 Ruscoe: At the present time Airbus have 247 orders and Boeing 213. Boeing have far more widebody orders than Airbus so far this year. This is not killing! Rus
29 PVG: The answer to the question is that they should move their production plants to Europe so that the European governments will subsidize their R&D plus t
30 Greaser: Boeing and industry analysts have already said they will be lagging behind Airbus in terms of sales for a few more years, as they re-group, re-organiz
31 Gdjet16: Francoflier, exactly which airlines are so 'unhappy' with Boeing's products? To Aither, I completely agree with you. Airbus and Boeing both make good
32 Airplane: Airbus is killing Boeing in sales this year. Right, It's like Hyundai is also killing Mercedes Benz in sales this year too
33 Continental: Once the airlines figure out how ridiculously stupid they were for buying an aircraft that was far too large and unnecessary (A380) for them, they'll
34 Dc10guy: We need to set some ground rules for the Boeing vs Airbus fights. #1, Is this a Airplane vs airplane fight ? Or #2, Is this a Airbus the corporation v
35 Ckfred: There is an old business saying, "Sometimes the best deal is the one you don't do." Boeing learned in the 90s that giving away airplanes and running p
36 Anxebla: Airplane... Saying Hyundai is Airbus and Boeing is Mercedes-Benz, is not right. Especially on the B-737/A-320 comparison. Saludos!
37 Ua777222: I will use the A32S and B73S as an example throughout his post and all expressions throughout this post are that of my own Anxebla, I think that's the
38 NumberTwelve: UA777 - sorry, the "Quality vs Price" argument is not an argument, it's (sorry to say that) stupid. And of course, a product has to be made for custom
39 ClearedDirect: I think the old saying "take care of the customer - or someone else will" is very appropriate in this case. It appears to me (through the comments by
40 1millionflyer: NumberTwelve but the quality issue isn't about airworthiness. The a3XX series does not last as long as Boeing without a lot more maintenance. They are
41 Dc10guy: ........."I am not A vs. B either, I love the A3xx series, and I like the 777. The truth is, Airbus is what you but for short term, Boeing is what you
42 BlueSky1976: Once the airlines figure out how ridiculously stupid they were for buying an aircraft that was far too large and unnecessary (A380) for them, they'll
43 FlyPNS1: Why should Boeing fight to compete with Airbus in the low-margin commercial aircraft business, when they can make huge margins on the defense side of
44 1millionflyer: Dc10guy I didn't say they woudn't last, I said over a long period of time the total cost of ownership (acquisition cost+maintenence) is higher for air
45 BlueSky1976: flyPNS1: Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier and Embraer are ALL subsidy whores in one way or another. About time someone said that. Welcome to my respected us
46 Dc10guy: 1millionflyer, I'd like to see them numbers, Our Airbuses cost a lot less to fuel, maintain and fly then our Boeings. And they are all over 10 years o
47 AirbusDriver: I flown both (B737-300/400 & A319/A320/A321)and (B767-200ER & A330-300) and hands down the Airbus is of better quality. Yes I know it's just my opinio
48 Scotron11: Well, to coin a phrase: I WANT THE 747ADV, and I want it NOW!!!!!!
49 NumberTwelve: 1millionflyer: "They [Airbus] are cheaper to acquire but the total cost of ownership is the important number. Just ask America West, Airbus quietly re
50 BestWestern: "....the A340-600 sux, the constant oscillationns from turbuklence' make you spill your 'caf'e au lait'....." So coming back to the topic.... I think
51 NumberTwelve: BestWestern, sorry to be contrary but this one from Continental is much more stupid : "Once the airlines figure out how ridiculously stupid they were
52 Warren747sp: I think Boeing is doing pretty well, considering 1.it is a premium product at a premium price. 2.no government subsidies. 3.U.S. law against kickbacks
53 BestWestern: Warren, are you being Ironic or something?
54 BENNETT123: Boeing may be correct. Everyone may choose to fly on Boeing 7E7. However, given that the market has tended to rise year on year, this means a constan
55 PSAelectra: Re NumberTwelve: Not to dispute your claim regarding the LTK rep visiting Everett to inspect a LH 744, this isn't something new. Most if not all deliv
56 Boeing nut: Boeing is "awake" and very aware of what they are doing. It's not thier fault that thier sales are not up to where they used to be. There is one big r
57 Qxq400: Never any company that stops manufacturing the best plane ever made (757). Can not be a serious player in the retail airplane sales.
58 BAtripleseven: I am a big boeing supporter but airbus is killing them. The 7e7 is nothing compared to the A380...come on boeing!
59 VS11: Indians indeed fly to India on VS/EK - quite a bit in fact (at least from Boston). VS11
60 Ken777: It appears from some comments that Boeing is down to 10% market share. They are not in that bad a shape. While Airbus has an advantage in some areas B
61 Gearup: Sonic Cruiser. Big interest at first, but then 19 examples of cancers of humanity terminated interest in this aircraft because no one had the money. T
62 Cb777: Maybe Gordon Bethune as ceo maybe the answer
63 DeltaWings: I am a big boeing supporter but airbus is killing them. The 7e7 is nothing compared to the A380...come on boeing! What has this supposed to mean? Do y
64 Beeweel15: THE BOTTOM LINE 1-Airbus is more a neich supplier of aircraft there is something to fit every individual need. 2-Boeing threw away a lot of good stuff
65 QuestAir: I remember reading somewhere that a Boeing official said in the 1970's about Airbus that they'd probably make twelve planes and then go out of busines
66 Avek00: "Boeing threw away a lot of good stuff, The MDC Line. Think of it a lot of folks who bought MDC have gone to Airbus. As I have said before many times
67 Caribb: Although I would have liked to see Boeing either modify the 747 or build a new aircraft to compete with the A380 (if only to protect the high capacity
68 Boeing nut: The SC had one purpose and one purpose only. It was a marketing ploy (and not a bad one at that) to steel Airbus thunder around the launch of the A380
69 AvObserver: "I think Boeing should retire Harry and put Mullally in charge!" Gearup, I agree with Boeing nut's rebuttal of your Sonic Cruiser theory but on this o
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