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Do Many Carriers Fly Africa - South America  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9601 posts, RR: 69
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3789 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Now and then while screening photos I see some interesting things, like African carriers (TAGG Angola as an example) with smaller jets such as 737-200's in Brazil. Do they fly direct from Africa? How far is it? Are they normal flights? Who else flys them?

Thanks!

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6403 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3791 times:

Not many carriers fly between Africa and South America; TAAG Angola (DT) like you mentioned, flies once a week LAD-GIG, South African Airways (SA) fliew a few times a week JNB-GRU and Malaysia Airlines (MH) flies CPT-EZE three days a week.

Varig Brasil (RG) flew an intersting route until a few years ago; GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG with MD-11. They re-started GRU-JNB about three-six months ago but has since again discontinued the route again.

Not sure why there was a TAAG 737 in Brazil since they usually fly a 74D there.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

TACV is operating SID-FOR weekly using 763 too, and if I remember well RAM was flying to RIO as well years ago.


just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

VARIG maintained a weekly service from Rio de Janeiro to Lagos, Nigeria, and the service lasted at least two decades until it was suspended in the late 1990's. Bellview Airlines of Nigeria launched a Lagos-Rio flight, once weekly with the A300 but this was also terminated in 2000 if I recall correctly.

I think the Brazil-Nigeria market is there and VARIGs suspension was during a financial turmoil at the airline when it needed cash, and Bellviews suspension was also attributed to a 1-aircraft operation which complicated matters in case of scheduled and unscheduled maintenance, crew layovers, etc.

Bellview has since then added 2 Boeing 767-200ERs and I wont be surprised to see a resumption of service.

Note that MEA operated a Beirut-Abidjan-Sao Paulo service for a few years before it stopped when they withdrew their 747-200s.

Sosoliso Airlines of Nigeria has gotten approval and is planning a weekly scheduled Lagos-Banjul-Barbados-Trinidad flight. They expect to start in January but who knows.....



If there is a will, there is a way
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2135 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

according to OAG, nonstops from Africa to South America are:

twice weekly CPTEZE on Malaysian
daily JNBGRU on South African
once weekly LADGIG on TAAG
once weekly SIDFOR on TACV

TACV's flight is almost entirely designed for LISFOR connections


User currently offlineS.p.a.s. From Liechtenstein, joined Mar 2001, 962 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3562 times:

TAAG 737s in Brazil...

VEM - Varig Engenharia e Manutenção (sort of Varig Technik) has a long standing contract to overhaul TAAGs 737s and this is normally made at their Porto Alegre (POA) facilities.

Most of the flights arrive/depart Brazil via Recife and from there make the SA crossing, probably REC-ABJ and then down the west African coast.

Cheers

Renato

[Edited 2004-12-27 16:45:39]


"ad astra per aspera"
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3506 times:


As mentioned, the most representative Africa-South America flights are the ones operated by South African Airways [which in contrast to Varig's decision to drop JNB was upgraded to larger equipment] and Malaysia Airlines whose service begins in KUL and is a two-stop operation all the way to EZE.

These flights, as a side note, are particularly the ones who allow the above mentioned airlines to calssify in the select group of carriers which fly to all continents.

As for future routes, both Emirates and MEA have strongly considered starting flights to Brazil from their own hubs. These services would be likely to operat through another African city of the likes of Lagos or Dakar.




SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9601 posts, RR: 69
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3417 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Thanks for all the replys! The pics I refer to are indeed from Recife, lots of interesting stuff goes thru there, TransAfrika 727's! So tasty.

User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

As for future routes, both Emirates and MEA have strongly considered starting flights to Brazil from their own hubs. These services would be likely to operat through another African city of the likes of Lagos or Dakar.

MEA: Although Lebanese Presidente Émile Lahoud and his Brazilian counterpart Lula da Silva were interested in starting a link between Lebanon and Brazil, MEA finally decided not to start the route because of very poor loads and the high amount of aicraft they would need to fly it. Add to this the fact that the A330 cannot fly BEY-GRU non-stop, therefore they should have leased or bought a new, more expensive type of aircraft.

Emirates: A big mistery. EK was granted 14 weekly slots to Brazil, plus 5 weekly slots to Argentina. There were some rumours about starting DXB-GRU with the A345 by September 2004, which of course didn't materialize (you know, we are almost in January 2005). So far, the most intense rumours are the start of a DXB-GRU and a DXB-GIG-EZE. Nevertheless, no official comment has been made by Emirates.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Add to this the fact that the A330 cannot fly BEY-GRU non-stop, therefore they should have leased or bought a new, more expensive type of aircraft.

Not necessarily Marcos; and this is where the stop in northwestern Africa [on which the point of my previous reply relies] sees true importance. Apart from feeding passengers to the route [high-yielding ones baring in mind the type of markets typically found in said region - Lagos for instance] it would allow the airline to operate with the medium-capacity equipment available [namely A332 in ME's case] thus maximizing yields; and keeping direct links between South America in Middle East at that.

In any case, not cool to hear that these plans seem to be going down the drain...



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3262 times:

Dear AF022

TACV flights are NOT aimed at transit pax going to LIS (TP flies the route daily with onward connections to major European destinations), but instead the operation has been a HUGE success with retailers from Cabo Verde. They pay for the ticket, buy loads cheap of manufactured goods in Fortaleza (Cabo Verde's currency is attached to the Euro so it is very valued against the Real) and make a huge profit selling in their home country. There was even a full story on Brazil's most important weekly newsmagazine, Veja.


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2402 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

Nice topic!

The photographer asks what is this a/c doing in Brazil:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paulo Herren - Jumpseat Team



The answer: she was on her way to CHILE...

After Avant (OT) airlines closed in 2000, the maintenance facilities remained, and now Avant is an aviation maintenance company for 737s and 727s.

I know it sounds weird, but Chanchangi Airlines from Nigeria was on their costumer list, so although it's not a regular service, I just thought it was funny to take the change of clear things about this 727 in Brazil...

Regards )( Arcano



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2135 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

Caro Rafabozzolla

I was in Sal a couple of years ago, and the SIDFOR flight was almost exclusively transit for passengers from LIS. Even if TP operates a daily nonstop LISFOR, VR is able to offer a second connection on the weekend.

Perhaps the situation has changed, but if the SIDFOR flight did not connect with LISSID, I doubt it would sell an entire B763.


User currently offlineRafabozzolla From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 1184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3052 times:

AF022,

That might have been the case some years ago but please believe me.

The plane change was due to cargo (or better saying to excess luggage, yes luggage).

It is a real phenomenon, and I repeat, goods in Brazil a currently extremely cheap due to the pairing of Cabo Verde's currency to the Euro.

[Edited 2004-12-28 17:18:09]

User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

Iraqi airlines use to fly to south america via CMN. Varig use to serve ACC, ABJ, LOS ans a couple more west african destinations.


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineODAFZ From Afghanistan, joined Jul 2004, 356 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

In 1998, AR served also CPT and JNB from EZE
Royal Air Maroc used to served Brazil and Argentina from Casablanca.


User currently offlineFrostbite From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

RG once had a rather well-developed (though obviously unsustainable in this day and age) African network; I have some RG timetables from the early/mid-1980s which show regular frequencies to Luanda, Angola (LAD) and Maputo, Mozambique (MPT?) on B707s (in addition to those destinations Soups mentioned). There may have been others but LAD & MPT stand out in my mind, I might have to dig through my old timetable collection.

Correct me if I'm wrong but these two African nations share a Portuguese colonial history (Brazil also of course).


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2817 times:

Correct me if I'm wrong but these two African nations share a Portuguese colonial history


Correct Gerald, hence, for example, TAP's several weekly services to Maputo from Lisbon.



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Photo © António José Avelar






SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Interesting topic. Just to add some more facts:

JNB-GRU (daily) is one of SA most profitable routes (2004). It's almost always packed on business class. GRU was also SA launching destination for its new business class. The route is operated codeshare with RG.

As Rafabozzolla mentioned, VR SID-FOR flights are mainly cargo, but also many pax in transit to LIS. This because VR flight is much cheaper than TP daily service FOR-LIS. I even know pax that use VR flight to transit to AMS! (FOR-SID-AMS!). VR operates 2 x week SID-AMS, since there is a huge Cape Verde community in Rotterdam.

SID is also the stop-over airport used by Embraer on route for the delivery of its a/c to European customers. For example, Embraer's LOT a/c were all seen refueling in SID a couple of weeks ago. Of course, SID was selected by Embraer because, besides its strategic location betweeen Africa and Brazil, Portuguese is the local language. Time flight FOR to SID is less than 4 hours!

TAAG, as stated, still flies 1 x week LAD-GIG with the 747. RG operated to LAD until some years ago; but with the civil war in Angola, and the fact that some of RG crew were killed in an incident in Luanda, RG decided to cease operating this flight.

MEA and TAM completed a partnership agreement (as of Sep/04) in wich TAM operates GRU-CDG and MEA CDG-BEY with immediate connection and the issue of only one ticket. MEA operated BEY-ABJ-GRU for a while and dropped the service due to poor loads.

EK is studying flighst to GRU nonstop(!). There is specualtion of a possible partnership EK-JJ...EK VP has been seen at JJ HQ in Sao Paulo.

Rgs,


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