HB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4650 posts, RR: 70 Posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6027 times:
With the start of the summer 2005 operations, Air France will give up its recently launched nonstop links to the Vietnamese cities of Hanoi (HAN) and Ho Chi Minh (SGN) in favor of a return to a direct connection passing through Bangkok.
Air France currently operates thrice weekly nonstop A343 service between CDG and SGN and codeshares on Vietnam Airlines' four weekly B772 nonstops. The capital city of Hanoi is currently served twice weekly by AF, nonstop with A343, and three times by its codeshare partner VN with B772.
For the summer of 2005, Air France has planned to return to its previous regimen of serving both cities via Bangkok. Thus, SGN will be served 4 times weekly and HAN will receive 3 weekly flights from Paris via Bangkok. All flights are to be operated by A343. The VN-code share flights are not currently programmed, and it is unclear whether they are to continue.
I guess that AF's nonstop experiment to Vietnam failed because of low yields. What is surprising, however, is that, with the return of the direct flights via Bangkok, service the latter will effectively be downgraded from a daily dedicated terminator service to a daily flight to be shared with another station. It is surprising that AF does not operate larger equipment into BKK instead, as many other European airlines outstrip AF in capacity and/or frequency at BKK.
Econojetter From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 430 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5422 times:
I guess it is appropriate to take into account KL flights to BKK as part of AF's presence there. So that makes 2x daily for AF/KL into BKK. Even with that, AF/KL still lags LH at BKK... but that is not surprising since BKK is a Star hub. BA/QF offer 2x daily (but part of the Kangaroo route i.e. not dedicated BKK from LHR), if I am not mistaken.
The daily SGN and 5x weekly HAN nonstops offered by VN include the AF-operated codeshare flights, based on HB-IWC's post. That means, during the 2005 northern summer schedule, VN will be back to 3x weekly nonstop SGN and 2xweekly nonstop HAN, unless VN plans / is permitted to operate its own additional flights to CDG.
6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5361 times:
My understanding is that Vietnam route is low yield AND very seasonal.
I wonder whether the downgrade to A343 on CDG-BKK and tags to SGN and HAN by AF has anything to do with the fact that ALL of its France-Australia traffic will no travel via SIN on a B773, then codesharing with QF.
In the best AF has several interline agreements, including QF and TG over BKK...
HB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4650 posts, RR: 70
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5318 times:
I guess it is appropriate to take into account KL flights to BKK as part of AF's presence there.
Even KL's presence in Bangkok is not overwhelming. They fly a daily B744 combi in there, but that flight is shared with Taipei. I've always thought of Bangkok as one of Asia's larger O/D markets with respect to Europe, so it surprises me that an airline like AF puts one of its smaller widebodies on the route for a non-terminator flight.
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 876 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
Just flew CDG-SGN two days ago.
The flight was quite full, even in business class. There were at least 4 persons (in BC) coming from the US (was it with Delta tickets, it is a codeshare, or AF tickets, I don't know).
I chatted with a flight attendant who told me (as mentioned by FLYSSC, who has an invaluable knowledge of AF) that it was difficult to have good load factors, except during holidays.
And that AF preferred to focus on the Chinese market with the available planes, waiting for the A380.
There is maybe another factor: on my last trip in october I flew the return journey with the codeshare VN flight: the comfort of the business class of VN, with full flat beds and a very good IFE was far superior to the AF one (still old config of the cabin, without even the increased pitch I saw on a CCS-CDG flight last week).
Maybe more passengers were using the VN flights (at least in business ?) and this had an impact on the financial results of the route : of course this depends how revenue was shared between the airlines.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
Mindscape From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5166 times:
I have just been back from SGN on AF173/VN537 on a AF metal (A343 F-GLZT). The code sharing agreement between AF and VN has changed the AF metal flight time. Indeed, while it used to be a night flight, it is now a day flight with a departure at 9.40 AM Vietnamese time to arrive on the same day at 5.10 PM local time, letting the VN metal (B772) the evening departure. The morning flight is not very convenient as most of the pax are more leisure passengers and then prefer to stay one more day and to take the evening flight. My flight was not full at all : no 1st class pax (F-GLZT has still the old seats configuration with 6 first class seats), only 3 business pax, and in Tempo class at the rear of the cabin it was possible to take the 4 seats of the middle row to sleep !
I don't know what the sharing agreements between AF and VN are (concerning benefits, etc.), but AF173 does not seem to be very profitable, but it is based on my experience and may be it was an exception.
Anyway, the code sharing will end temporally for the summer season 2005, with a flight to SGN or HAN via BKK, but I believe the A343 will be replaced by a B744 as it was for the summer season 2004... may be FLYSSC can confirm it or not.