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AA & PHL If US Airways Collapses?  
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9304 posts, RR: 25
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

With furloughed TWA employees & pilots still hoping for a callback, and excess of a good 25 or so planes sitting in the desert kept in flyable condition, anyone think it is possible that AA would potentially sweep into PHL, if US Airways was to liquidate, and set up strong focus operations getting a jump on PHL to the Florida market?







Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

With relatively large operations at JFK and BOS, I doubt AA would jump to PHL, especially with WN competition there. If USAirways goes under, I really don't see anyone opening a new big bank of flights at PHL.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

They could add some flights, but with a sizable focus city at JFK; I don't see AA making PHL a hub or focus city any more than CO (due to PHL's close proximity to its EWR hub).


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 705 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5575 times:

As I hypothesized months ago in another forum, should US disappear, I think PHL will turn into a bloodbath that will eventually end with everybody picking up some of the slack. WN and probably FL will benefit the most.

The bigger question is what will become of US' international routes? Will other carriers continue to serve those cities from PHL or transfer the European destinations to their respective hubs? My guess is the latter.

But more so than AA, I think NW is the wild card here. They of the non-hub focus city repute (IND, MKE).



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9304 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5562 times:

Yes, but with 8 million people and no other metro area airport for PHL, someone is bound to jump on the routes to Florida. Could also be a good opportunity for ATA....




Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

I think however we have to look at AA at both BOS and JFK. They are not serving the east coast market...and FL does not count.  Smile JFK has a lot of FL and Caribbean service..but they don't have a HUGE east coast operation. Sure they fly Eagle to some cities out of JFK and BOS but there is always room for adding flights in a market that will support the yields. PHL might not be a bad idea. PHL alone has a large number of O/D passengers. I wouldn't be surprised if they did add some flights to a few cities. PHL-MCI, upgraded PHL-STL, PHL-LGA, PHL-PBI,PHL-FLL, PHL-MCO, PHL-TPA, PHL-JAX, PHL-PNS...all markets that AA could expand into. PHL-BOS is another good market. Sure there are other airlines serving those markets now but you are going to get that everywhere.


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

AA could use PHL as a domestic focus city. I would hope that they use JFK on more international routes. PHL will prolly be overun with LCC if US goes under. Just my two cents.

User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9304 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

Wouldnt that leave just Southwest doing the PHL-LAX market? Seems like someone would want to hop on the markets to SFO, SEA, SAN, etc. Don't think the parked M80's could make it that far though. ;p




Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineJunior1970 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

Wouldn't PHL be a good place for NW to start a new hub ?
I don't think they are very strong in the eastcoast. They are more focused on the midwest (DTW, MSP).


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Junior1970,

a more realistic filler at PHL would definitely be NW over AA. good point!!!  Smile

AA777jr


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

PHL-BOS is another good market. Sure there are other airlines serving those markets now but you are going to get that everywhere.

At present, AA already serves the PHL-BOS market through its Eagle division. US and FL are the only other carriers in this market; however, both of them offer mainline service (US A319/320/733/734/757 & FL 717). Whether AA will either upgrade its Eagle service to mainline or just add more Eagle flights or a combination of both remains to be seen. If the BWI-BOS services (presently served by FL and AAEagle) are an indicator of things to come w/the PHL-BOS market; don't expect AA to go mainline on this route anytime soon.

Edited to add:

Wouldnt that leave just Southwest doing the PHL-LAX market?

Stlgph,

No, UA still serves the PHL-LAX market with 3 flights/day.

[Edited 2004-12-28 22:24:53]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16829 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Given the absolute headache that B6 has been giving both AA and DL at JFK causing both of them to totaly drop their ambitious Domestic growth strategies from JFK (based on large RJ growth), why on earth would they want to set up a large operation to compete with WN who is the largest and most succesful LCC of them all.

The first thing that is going to happen at PHL is WN is going to grow alot, making PHL it's largest or second largest station. WN will grab about 15 or more gates and boost it's flying up to BWI and PHX levels.

Next someone like Airtran most likely will jump in and take over Domestic, Canadian and Carribean flying WN will not touch such as..

YUL, YYZ, Atlanta, Boston, Bermuda, Cancun, San Juan, Dominican Republic etc..

NWA might be interested in operating some International flights from PHL, and DL may be interested in moving some of their International flying away from JFK to PHL where there's much less competition.

Everything though is speculation except for WN, they are going to grow PHL one way or another to make it one of it's top two stations.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

I'm looking in the computer for Jan 18, 2005...all PHL-BOS service is connecting through RDU. Are you sure Eagle is in that route?



Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 710 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Much to the pleasure of ERJ170, if (when?) US Airways collapses, AA will grow it's east coast hub at RDU. Terminal C is already exclusively (?) controlled by AA, which has the space to grow. If CLT collapses as a hub, AA at RDU will flourish. We will have RDU and CLT trade places. RDU will become what CLT is now. CLT will become what RDU is now.

Long live US Airways!!!



Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

Term C is no longer under the control of AA...they gave that up..now the airport runs the terminal. UA operates out of C..and I'm pretty sure UA is trying to get one more gate for their operation.


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Are you sure Eagle is in that route?

All of AA's PHL-RDU routes are Eagle flights. Note: that the flight numbers are 4000 to 4999 are Eagle flights. 5000 and higher are AAConnection flights.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5414 times:

I know the PHL-RDU flights are Eagle, but you said that PHL-BOS were Eagle flights...I see no PHL-BOS flights nonstop, they all go to RDU for conx.


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

ACAfan,
Here is the problem with that strategy. The airport is in the middle of the Term C expansion project. I believe AA to be at max use of their gates due to the Eagle consumption into RDU. Obviously this is perfect timing for AA to make a move, but unfortunately the real estate isn't available.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5384 times:

Term C is no longer under the control of AA...they gave that up..now the airport runs the terminal. UA operates out of C..and I'm pretty sure UA is trying to get one more gate for their operation.

Very true.. Terminal C is no longer AA country.. although I think they will get preferentual treatment when the new Terminal is complete.. to the best of my knowledge, they still "own" 12 gates..

As far as UAX out of RDU.. they currently lease 3 gates.. and they do the grounds for AC.. how long will they keep their 3 gates is the question.. with their new schedule.. they will drop 4 flights out of RDU and will only operate 12 daily flights (7 IAD, 5 ORD, 3 YYZ on AC).. RDU has been willing to yank some gates back lately so UAX could get pushed to 2 gates.. That would free up a gate for a new airline, for AA to add a gate, or another international carrier..

Also, I would expect SkyTeam to move to Terminal C in the next few years... I think DL is a definite..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineBigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2364 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5351 times:

It seems like AA pulled out of the PHL-BOS market, presumably due to low yields.

There's too much competition there with hourly flights on US and Airtran in the market albeit with only 3 flights a day.

There's also WN operating PHL-MHT and PHL-PVD.



User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

UA had to fight very hard for the space and gates that they have....not sure if the airport will take one away. RDU has screwed UA from the get-go when they moved from A to C. Even with 12 flights a day, they are pretty busy there. Right now UA has 18 feet of counter space - not enough to handle the passenger load, where as AA has close to 115 feet of space. WN, 90 feet of space. Point, UA will take notice and probably file some sort of lawsuit in order to stop any more space from leaving.


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineUsair330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

If US Airways was to liquidate. Will AA start bring some 767-300 or A300's into the PHL-SJU Route.

US Airways
767-200
A330-300
757 or A320

AA
757-200
757-200 or 737-800

That's 5 flights a day and all with midsize aircraft. Chances high ?


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

ATWZW170,

I just double-checked Expedia and AA's website. I stand corrected. AAEagle must have just recently discontinued their non-stop PHL-BOS service. Eagle offered this service as recently as last October or November. According to PHL's latest timetable (from last October, which will be replaced by an updated timetable next month) AA had offered as many as 5 Eagle round-trip flights/day.

I, for one, am somewhat surprised about this. First DLConnection dropped the service late August, now AAEagle. One would've thought that AA might just keep the service to bide the time until US does indeed cease operations. Unless AA's thinking that if FL expands its PHL-BOS service (should US go), they (FL) won't be able to expand as much in other competetive markets; like DFW for example.

Edited to add:

There's too much competition there with hourly flights on US and Airtran in the market albeit with only 3 flights a day.

BigOrange,

When I last checked FL's website, they will be reintroducing the earlier morning PHL-BOS r/t flights that were dropped nearly 2 months ago on April 5. With the TZ/MDW deal falling through (and thereby freeing up more available planes for FL) and US going under becoming more of a reality, FL may be able to increase its PHL-BOS frequency sooner if need be.

And, yes, WN having PHL-PVD and PHL-MHT service doesn't help AA either.

[Edited 2004-12-28 23:01:45]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5295 times:

RDU has screwed UA from the get-go when they moved from A to C. Even with 12 flights a day, they are pretty busy there. Right now UA has 18 feet of counter space

Yeah.. AA does have a HUGE counter and UAX has a teeny counter.... but they do offer a lot of flights.. RDU didn't have a choice did they? DH were the leasees on the A gates.. UAX had to go somewhere.. and since RDUAA had just taken back Terminal C.. I think they did good.. course, the way their gates are located.. quite odd.. I would expect that UAX in Terminal C is temporary.. until the Terminal is redone.. then they will probably be scooted back over to Terminal A..

How often are those 3 gates utilized? With having 12 flights and not having the Charter flights anymore.. couldn't that be done at 2 gates? just seems that if RDU is going to pull a gate from US for none use, they would be looking at the UAX gates too...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5269 times:

With as often as UA is delayed out of RDU, they are always in use.  Smile Seriously though, they are used often. I can't speak for how much because I was there in June to help with station start up, the gates were filled very often. And, one of the gates doesn't even work, you have to walk downstairs and out to your plane. So, really, we only have 2 gates. Oh, and the contract with AC states they have to have a jetbridge for their flights.....so if they are late and one of our birds lands...often times they are just parked and passengers walk in!


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
25 FlyCaledonian : How strong is the PHL O&D market for international flights? Just wondering that if US went under any carrier would be interested in the international
26 Post contains images Dayflyer : When (and not if) US collapses, Airtran and Southwest and CO will expand services very quickly and will benefit the most. AA would likely pick up the
27 PHLBOS : How strong is the PHL O&D market for international flights? I don't have any hard numbers for you but I know that plenty of people who live around her
28 AAplatnumflier : I think that AA would improve its presence at PHL but I do not think that it would be a Hub as PHL does not have anything to offer over the airports o
29 Thrust : Is it possible AA will take back PHL-LHR? AA could certainly benefit from extra service to LHR.
30 Usairways85 : I think in essence PHL will become what BOS is today, but instead of several majors with focus cities, it will be a mix of some majors and some LCC's.
31 Us653 : It would be interesting seeing if NW would utilize PHL as an east coast hub. As I had mentioned in an earlier thread, I have always overlooked NW as t
32 PHLBOS : When (and not if) US collapses, Airtran and Southwest and CO will expand services very quickly and will benefit the most. Dayflyer, I agree with you a
33 ChrisNH : Well, AA and WN are close to the worst of enemies. That much is clear, if one reviews the Wright Ammendment; DFW/DAL and other snipes that AA has take
34 Stlgph : Well WN would want to take on 25 gates...or so they say...but do they have the flight crews and aircraft standing by to make this happen? I bring up A
35 ATWZW170 : I'm not sure Spirit has the name recognition to do something like PHL. Nor do I think they have the money or employee's to expand in a large way into
36 STT757 : Folks there's a reason why AA has so many aircraft in the bone yards and why they laid off so many people. They were not making money, why would bring
37 Stlgph : You can't "run" from Southwest forever. If you are able to offer just as good of a product, then why the hell run? Look at AirTran. They opened up hea
38 ATWZW170 : I have to totally agree with stlgph. We can't run from WN. Nor can we run from any other low fare carrier. AA or any other legacy could make money in
39 PHLBOS : I'm not sure Spirit has the name recognition to do something like PHL. Nor do I think they have the money or employee's to expand in a large way into
40 Jet1977 : All the talk about which airline will move into the PHL market if US goes under, had me thinking maybe the new Pan Am, or Clipper Connection could exp
41 Jet1977 : My apologies... I did not properly post a new topic
42 STT757 : "and to points throughout Florida (Orlando, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale, Ft. Meyers), surely they could fill an M80 or two down there" Philadelphia-Florida
43 Stlgph : Jet 1977-- Agree with you on the Pan Am, idea, actually. Now if we can just find someone crazy enough to bring it back for a fourth time. Oh, Gordon..
44 SANSCOTT744 : I think that United will pick up the west coast flights for USAir in Philadelphia when they go under
45 AAplatnumflier : STT757- Actually AA really only has planes in the boneyard because they are too old for service or there is no need for them. Also AA is #1 with the A
46 STT757 : "They may not fly to the same airport but they compete heavily with them to the Chicago Area also along with the Dallas area" Have to laugh there, WN
47 JpetekYXMD80 : Also at the time being AA is one of the most financially stable non LCC airline. Yeah, after narrowly averting bankruptcy not too long ago... Continen
48 MAH4546 : Yeah, after narrowly averting bankruptcy not too long ago... Continental and Northwest are in much better shape. Not really, they are all in the same
49 Post contains images AAplatnumflier : At the end of the day AA, CO, and NW are going to be the ones surviving that aren't LCC's. US is going to be the first that goes out cause there simpl
50 Moman : For arguments sake if someone could find a route where AA and WN compete directly (not comparing ORD/MDW or DFW/DAL) I would be interested. STL-TPA. M
51 SHUPirate1 : Here are the 17 routes AA and WN currently compete on. AUS-HOU AUS-LAX BWI-STL CMH-STL FLL-STL LAS-LAX LAS-SJC LAS-STL LAX-BNA LAX-SJC LAX-STL OKC-STL
52 JpetekYXMD80 : AA is in very healthy shape considering the condition of the industry, many would say they are better off than CO is. AA might have more assets and ca
53 Usairways85 : I don't think that US is not able to fill its seats out of PHL as stated earlier. I think its the fact that they can no longer charge astronomical far
54 AAplatnumflier : There is a rumor circling around that AA is planning on buying a good number of 7E7's....wouldnt surprise me if they went on a 2 billion dollar shoppi
55 SHUPirate1 : Here's the frequencies on routes that AA and WN compete on, with AA frequencies first, and WN frequencies second, both using 1/5/05: AUS-HOU 2x 8x AUS
56 Cloudy : I don't think that US is not able to fill its seats out of PHL as stated earlier. I think its the fact that they can no longer charge astronomical far
57 Bobnwa : Neither AA or CO or any other legacy carrier in the US is in healthy shape. They all owe billions of dollars and continue to lose money. How can this
58 AA787 : AA is opening the first part of their JFK terminal this year. If US goes under, look for AA to add seats or routes to European destinations to make up
59 STT757 : "AA is opening the first part of their JFK terminal this year. If US goes under, look for AA to add seats or routes to European destinations to make u
60 Post contains images Aa777jr : AA wouldn't be opening the new JFK terminal (IMHO) if they didn't already plan for an international expansion. It has nothing to do with the performan
61 STT757 : "AA wouldn't be opening the new JFK terminal (IMHO) if they didn't already plane for an international expansion. " AA launched the project in 1999, mu
62 AA787 : I was referring to connecting passengers, like the west coast people who fly US and UA through PHL to Europe. AA787
63 Airways6max : If US collapses, I imagine that JetBlue and Southwest will get its assets in PHL. Maybe some expansion for AA but I doubt it.
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