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Boeing 7E7 (787) Tail Design Change  
User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1174 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14933 times:

Did anyone else notice that Boeing is finally showing a new tail design for the Boeing 7E7 (787)? It looks way more traditional than the shark fin! Check it out here.

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/photorelease/q4/pr_041229g.html

Reggaebird

[Edited 2004-12-30 21:45:11]

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13741 times:

It does look slightly different, but regardless of the tail, this is one SWEET picture!:




An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineDbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 863 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13473 times:

I was hoping with the new 7E7s, Continental would start a new color scheme....oh well...

User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13385 times:

>>I was hoping with the new 7E7s, Continental would start a new color scheme....oh well... <<

Who says they won't? They're not receiving their first 787 for OVER 4 YEARS from now.... even if they do plan a livery change, they're not going to show it in an artist's rendering today.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13333 times:

If you look "reeeel" close the the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer, (sp?) you'll see a slight taper of the tail going towards the back. I believe the "shark fin" is alive and well.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13241 times:

It looks exactly like all other "shark tail" 7E7's have so far IMO.... I don't think these sorts of illustrations count for much anyway...

User currently offlineSE210Caravelle From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 13135 times:

I'm sure you guys are familiar with this site, but check out http://newairplane.com/ for info on the 7E7 and a link to Boeing's 7E7 main page!

Great photo's (and videos, screen savers, virtual tours) like these can be found on the page:

http://newairplane.com/assets/en-US/gallery_pic_2_large.jpg

http://newairplane.com/assets/en-US/gallery_pic_3_large.jpg

http://newairplane.com/assets/en-US/gallery_pic_4_large.jpg

http://newairplane.com/assets/en-US/gallery_pic_5_large.jpg

Don't you love Boeing's new production livery!

Click here: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/photos.html for more photos and liverys on the or of the Boeing 7E7!

Have an awesome time with these photos, sorry for being a bit off topic,

SE210Caravelle Big grin


User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12935 times:

Tip guys. That is the 'new' tail. And the big windows. Go suck. They've been cut down a bit, although they may be a little larger than standard Boeing.

Next 7E7 feature to take a hit MIGHT be the electronic window shades. And after than, a steep downward revision of the percentage of composites and a humungous dirt fight with some of the suppliers who can't deliver on the new technology.

People were upset when I suggested the features of the 7E7 would be rolled back some month back. Too bad, that's the way of the world. Mislead or over-hype a product, something that Airbus elevated to an art form with all that rubbish about the A380 being a sky hotel or shopping mall etc.

Don't you get mad when people wheel out big fibs.

Antares


User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5676 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12884 times:

What is your source for the changes in the window size, the tail, and the window shades?


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12872 times:

The tail in the picture is exactly the same as in previous pictures.

N


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12814 times:

This tail looks the same to me as those in previous illustrations.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12816 times:

Tip guys. That is the 'new' tail. And the big windows. Go suck. They've been cut down a bit, although they may be a little larger than standard Boeing.

If you have a source that isn't that picture above, then I'd be willing to listen. From most indications, the fuselage design is largely complete so we would likely know if the windows are smaller. One reason the picture might look different is the 7E7 windows will be very disproportionate to what we are use to, and I wouldn't put it past the art department to scale them down a bit....

And after than, a steep downward revision of the percentage of composites and a humungous dirt fight with some of the suppliers who can't deliver on the new technology.

Not only is that unlikely, it's impossible. Boeing has done no alternative design work with aluminum alloys if the composite technology does not pan out. Given that construction of the prototype begins in 12 months, they have literally committed themselves to composite techonology. They don't have time to redesign the entire primary structure in that amount of time.

People were upset when I suggested the features of the 7E7 would be rolled back some month back

And which technologies have been rolled back that I missed? Boeing hasn't bailed on any sort of tail design because no tail design has been firmed in the first place.


User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5676 posts, RR: 48
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12768 times:

In a conference call last month, a Boeing official said that the desing was mostly complete and that only the final configuration of the tail needs to be complete. They expect to freeze the design by middle of 2005 which means that a lot of what has been planned for the 7e7 is probably going to show up on the plane.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12724 times:

Not only is that unlikely, it's impossible. Boeing has done no alternative design work with aluminum alloys if the composite technology does not pan out.

If i choose not to carry a spare tyre, it doesnt make it impossible for the four on my wheels to puncture.  Smile


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12651 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR



Boeing has done no alternative design work with aluminum alloys if the composite technology does not pan out.

If i choose not to carry a spare tyre, it doesnt make it impossible for the four on my wheels to puncture.


Here we go again. I can't believe people actually believe Boeing is taking some huge gamble on composites with the 7E7. Boeing has done their homework, folks. And not just in the past year or two. They've been researching and investing heavily in composite technology for the past decade or two.

Boeing is NOT jumping into this unprepared. They are NOT launching some one-off experimental contraption with questionable technology, as many of you regularly suggest.

Give them some credit.


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12531 times:

The picture is sweet. The shark tail still sucks. I'm still hoping they'll dump the idea. And for those wanting CO to change livery: go hang yourself. Continental has the best looking planes in the USA in my opinion...


All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlineCopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1001 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12132 times:

What the heck is all the discussion about how the airplane looks about!! Boeing is designing the airframe for its efficiency, not looks.

User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12122 times:

OK here's a bit more info. The tail and cockpit shape has been finalised. Look closely and you'll see the rakish shark fin is no longer there, bearing in mind is has been gradually phased down in recent 'leaks'.

Features to go so far have been satellite electrical motor locations, all now centralised in a more conventional scheme of things, and the variable trailing edge design was ditched some time back.

The height of the windows has been 'shortened.' Carry on all you like, but this will be made official soon.

And also coming, is an announcement that reinforced carbon laminates will not be applicable to certain parts of the design, including the area around the cockpit. No I can't tell you to the person how I know this, but work it out. There are design people working on elements of the project in this hemisphere.

I'm still a 'believer' in this project. Its just that I don't like to see hype rolled back by either manufacturer. People should only promise what they can deliver. The 7E7 should deliver a damn good product, but will we walk around inside some versions of Starship Galactica looking at the sky through sky lights, or admire the world through giant windows. No.

We'll get a fine jet that will meet the promises of performance made by Boeing if the 777 is any guide. And it will for a while be clear front runner in composite application, a title Airbus would have to work very hard to take from Boeing, but just as people usually can't remember what jet they flew on if they are just members of the public, there will be nothing all that out of the ordinary in flying the 7E7s.



User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12023 times:

I'm sure Boeing will be more inclined to pare back on things that don't contribute appreciably towards performance or comfort and contribute towards increased cost. After all, they want to sell the damn thing and make more money. If they figure they can sell the plane without some costly snazzy, pointless aspect of the design they will do so. And they will take that money to the bank and apply it towards the design of the 737NNG.


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11794 times:

Since the design work is planned for another 6 months and you can bet Boeing is currently studying the A350... So yes the 7E7 is still evolving to better compete. Airbus will do the same once we actuals are released in 2007.

If a conventional tail offerrs greater efficiency.... than that is what will be. The marketing pictures mean nothing.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11543 times:

BoeingBus,

You're right in one sense but I get pretty wound up about dishonesty in marketing.

Not that Airbus could claim any high moral ground. We all saw the rubbish about the A380, and more ancient members will recall the Airbus variable camber wing on the first A340s that were going to fly non-stop for 17 hours.

It was almost like they were in a lying competition with MD which was going to do Dallas Fort Worth non stop to Sydney both ways straight out of the factory, and we had Crandall and people like that flying to Australia to tell us about the great new services that were about to start. They were sure made to look like idiots by MD, and now we have been to look like idiots by Airbus, and more recently by Boeing.

I know I sound cranky, but part of the problem with today's world (rant, rave....silly old bugger) is that compromising on the truth is just considered marketing. its not. Its lying.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11501 times:

Antares:

You're painting Boeing with a brush from a reputation that they clearly do not have. McDonnell-Douglas and Airbus may have stretched matters, but what civil aircraft in recent history have Boeing lied about? Come on, start putting up, or are you just going to throw around baseless assertions all day? I think your statements about the tail are nothing more than Wild Ass Guesses, too. I want you to quantify these "leaks," which I purport are nothing more than Internet rumors.

[Edited 2004-12-31 02:29:56]


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8876 posts, RR: 40
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11462 times:

It looks like they chop the tip of the "Shark Fin" off. It isn't exactly a conventional tail, but it isn't the 'original' shark fin top tail either.

PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11405 times:

N328KF,

Everything I have ever posted to this forum has proven correct.

If I'm proven wrong I'll say so. No sweat. But the windows have been lopped and there is less shark in the shark fin tail than before. And there are no skylights, less composites and no variable trailing edge innovations.

I'd agree Boeing hasn't gone over the top in the past, well not since the launch of the 747, which resembled the A380 hype somewhat....but I just don't like the common assertion that marketing and the truth do not have to be congruent.

They may not be anymore, but this is wrong. If Boeing is a principled as you say (excluding flogging national secrets to America's enemies as some would have it) we have even more reason to kick butt when they step outside the limits.

We were promised things like skylights and gigantic windows that we are not going to get. Frankly, I'm not all that happy at just getting another jet. I want the Dreamliner dammit!




User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11288 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD DATABASE EDITOR



Antares,

Do you know for a fact that the window size has been reduced and finalized? If so, I'd be curious to hear what the finalized dimensions are.


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
25 N328KF : Let's leave your arguable statements about Boeing IDS out of this discussion. I already stated that I am only referring to BCA here. Again, you made a
26 Ha763 : It is still the same "shark fin" tail. It's just that this is a new angle of the 7E7 we are seeing. It still has the long slope in the front and the c
27 Antares : N328KF and 2H4 CREW I'm even older if the truth be known. And this is my second child hood. I'm impatient to see great things happen, as I don't have
28 Dayflyer : What a bunch of manure. What ever saves the airlines the most money is what they are going to put on this thing, period. The shark fin tail is a great
29 DekX : Ladies & Gents... the tail redesign is an aerodynamic function that just would not allow. The engineering team was trying very much to maintain the cu
30 Antares : Thanks DekX, I had people trying to tell me it hadn't changed and was beginning to think that one of the kids had slipped something into the old fart'
31 A340600 : Hehe, could have told you months back that all these high windows and ridiculous tail stuff would never happen. It will end up looking more like any o
32 C172heavy : Granted, the shark fin is a radical look, but it'll distinguish the 7E7 from all the other fish in the bowl. Besides, it looks cool!
33 PVG : Starting to look like a 757 on steroids!!! Antaras, anyone willing to call themselves an old-fart in public must be telling the truth. Sounds like you
34 Post contains images Zippyjet : Though young at heart and progressive in many facets of life, when it comes to subsonic commercial jets, I'm a traditionalist all the way! The amended
35 Post contains images Hoya : Here's a better, newer picture of the 7E7. It's a side view, so we can see the tail better. It still is distinctive, but it doesn't look as radical as
36 Post contains images AvObserver : DekX, the current 7E7 illustration still shows a profound curve to the tail. Until Boeing publishes a revised one with a completely straight-angled ta
37 BlueSky1976 : what civil aircraft in recent history have Boeing lied about? A380. They said that nobody in the world will buy it. Circa 1997.
38 Atmx2000 : Uh, I think he was asking what Boeing product has Boeing lied about. Talking crap about competitors products isn't surprising. Didn't they make variou
39 N328KF : Atmx2000: Yes. FUD regarding competitors products doesn't count. It happens in all industries. I am specifically wondering where he got the garbage id
40 Hmmmm... : Making claims without substantiation is a waste of both your and our time. A waste of time? It's a discussion board, not a job. The fact that we are h
41 Hoya : BlueSky, I believe Boeing has said, and continues to say, that the market is too small to justify the development of an A380-sized plane. Boeing decid
42 Antares : Actually I'm on the attack dog payroll of investors who take the advice of the partnership/consultancy that I founded, not that aircraft manufacturer
43 Post contains images Zippyjet : " There are only three new jets above the size of the new EMBs this cranky, vague, but exceedingly well informed old fart wants to fly in before Joe B
44 Post contains images 777ER : The shark design is still alive and biting . The Vietnam B7E7 looks awesome.
45 Antares : Hi Zippyjet. I was born in Suva in 1930. Somehow or other I think that's a dream the grand children and great grand children will fulfill. But here's
46 Post contains links PPVRA : Is it just me or is this tail more rounded than the Vietnam/CO 7E7? http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/k62599.html I definatly see a change from the
47 Hemispheres : //Making claims without substantiation is a waste of both your and our time. A waste of time? It's a discussion board, not a job. The fact that we are
48 Post contains images NW7E7 : From the original picture to the newest ones there isn't that much difference if at all. The only change might be at the top of the tailfin. It is a l
49 Post contains images Argonaut : Well...whether with the sharkfin or with the modified sharkfin... Is it just me, or does the 7E7/787 really look (well, apart from horizontal stabilis
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