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1 Day Left For 200 7E7s, Will They Make It?  
User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5791 posts, RR: 47
Posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9906 times:

Opinions... With one day left to get to 200 7E7s will Boeing make it? If so who is next and for who many? Thanks!


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingDrew From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9778 times:

Is 50 more all that is needed? What is the exact number of orders placed to date? I doubt they will make it but who know maybe we will have another surprise order like the CO one!  Big thumbs up

-Drew



You can't build a reputation upon what you are GOING to do, but rather upon what you HAVE done!
User currently offlineKorg747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 549 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9774 times:

I think boeing was depending on the chines order to be completed before year end. So I would say it's impossible now.


Please excuse my English!
User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5791 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9725 times:

So far they have 122 so they're 78 away from it. the Chinese order could still happen. The ban is on any contracts where aircraft will be delivered in 2005 above and beyond those already approved. It doesn't effect 2006 deliveries and beyond or contracts that are presently in negotiation.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineCapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 450 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9720 times:

I was talking to a maintenance guy for RAM, and said that they are contemplating 7E7 as it fits their profile, B777 too big for them, B763ER too small, so the surprise order could come from RAM as they were talikng about an A330, and recently Morocco and USA signed a free trade agreement, you never know what's cooking?

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 989 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9693 times:

I think boeing was depending on the chines order to be completed before year end. So I would say it's impossible now.

Yeah the China order was probably the critical mass Boeing was counting on to push the 200 threshold. In any event, the December orders and two blue-chip customers means that Boeing's claim that early delivery slots were going fast wasn't that inappropriate.

Boeing now has three very well-respected international carriers (ANA, JAL, CO), a small order from another respected airline (Air NZ), and three LCC/Charter carriers. Not a bad start IMO....

Is 50 more all that is needed?

I think it's more like 60-70


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9647 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR


From the Associated Press:

There's not much of 2004 left, but officials at aerospace giant Boeing Co. said Thursday they weren't giving up on a goal of securing 200 orders for the planned new 7E7 jetliner by the end of the year.

"We haven't backed off from that goal," spokeswoman Susan Bradley said Thursday from the company's Seattle offices, where its commercial airplanes operation is based.


Full text at http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/business/10531878.htm?1c


2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineBoeingDrew From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9644 times:

"Never say never"  Big grin

Seriously though, the Chinese weren't even planning on buying more than 50. That leaves 18 AFTER the Chinese order. If they were to get 200 they would need 2 orders (the Chinese and another one). Who knows what Boeing's got up their sleeve though.



You can't build a reputation upon what you are GOING to do, but rather upon what you HAVE done!
User currently offlineElcapi1980 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9600 times:

I think that with the actual sales of the Boeing 7E7 they must be very happy, archeiving 60%(122 units)+ porcentage of sales compare to the objective which was 200(100%) planes in less than one year of a new product is very difficult, I must say, Congrats Boeing !!!!


I love you barranquilla!!!!!
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9595 times:

Was Boeing talking of 200 firm orders, or 200 LOIs resp. announcements?

If it's the latter, then they're at 122 - if it's the first, then they're at 56 (according to Boeing's release regarding CO's order), so they're either 78 or 144 short...

It'll be difficult, but not impossible.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5791 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9560 times:

If it's the latter, then they're at 122 - if it's the first, then they're at 56 (according to Boeing's release regarding CO's order), so they're either 78 or 144 short...


That's immaterial as those MoUs (notably JAL, CO) will become firm orders within the next 3-4 months. To get this kind of interest less than a year after launching the development is still astounding.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9545 times:

I think the CO order takes the cake for the surprise order of the year...Gordo sure did give em a good parting gift.

Only bigger shocker would be NW ordering some, and some 717's too Big grin

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 989 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9526 times:

Seriously though, the Chinese weren't even planning on buying more than 50

The original China order was to be split over several airlines totaling 70+ plus options. If China is still going to squeeze their order in on December 31, I doubt it will be on the scale they planned in August, but who knows...

Who knows what Boeing's got up their sleeve though.

Indeed.... I heard the first wiff of a JAL order about 12 hours before Boeing announced it, and heard nothing of an impending CO order. The Boeing sales team can obviously keep a secret if they so chose  Big grin

Was Boeing talking of 200 firm orders, or 200 LOIs resp. announcements?

I think they said orders, but in all their written press statements they have said "commitments." They further define commitments as firm orders + announced LOI.


User currently offlinePopfly From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9317 times:

"Only bigger shocker would be NW ordering some, and some 717's too."

Say DeltaGuy, I like that rumor. Where'd you get that info?


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9193 times:

In my disgustingly cynical opinion, i present the reason the announcements have been so unexpected other the last few days....

"Oh Mr JL, pretty pretty please announce your commitment to the 7e7 before new year, you were never going to buy an Airbus anyway and it'll save us from public embarrassment and plummeting share prices, we'll make it worth your while."

"Oh Mr CO, pretty pretty please announce your commitment to the 7e7 before new year, you were never going to buy an Airbus anyway and it'll save us from public embarrassment and plummeting share prices, we'll make it worth your while."

So who else fits the criteria AA, DL, they could 'order' tomorrow I guess.

I cannot deny they have done well with the number of orders they have currently though.

[Edited 2004-12-31 00:32:51]

User currently onlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1897 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9160 times:

Well, if SQ or Chinese carriers have made up their mind and went ahead with order, we'll hear about it in a few hours as it is early morning there right now. If somehow, someway KLM and Northwest decided to go for the join order and Delta and American somehow, someway found some ca$h to buy them, it might still happen. Right now it's a 50/50 chance. If we will not hear about a big Asian order in next 6 to 12 hours, then it will not happen and Boeing will say bye-bye to whoever came up with that imho stupid PR stunt.


Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 9111 times:

I hear Northwest will DEFINETELY not order the 717... Reason is this...

The DC9 is usually flown by the older guys... 40-50 yrs. When these guys retire, so does their bird... The new guys are being trained on the Airbus, so that when the older guys retire, and the 9s retire, the new guys will then be the Older guys flying their A320s, ETC... More like a process of elimination... The new guys on the new planes, when they retire, their birds retire as well.. The captain of Flt. 967 on 7/17/04 I believe retired when 9152 was retired (He had to have been pushing 60)


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4343 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9087 times:

I guess Airbus spoilt the party for Boeing by throwing in the A-350 quite unexpectedly. Some airlines which were likely to be an early customer for the 7E7, like KLM/NW and Singapore for instance, have waited and are now comparing the A-350 specifications and performance.


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineRCS763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8525 times:

Vietnam just ordered 4 7E7-8!

Here´s the topic:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1884133/


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

Pretty old news. That order was already announced.

N


User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8299 times:

"If we will not hear about a big Asian order in next 6 to 12 hours, then it will not happen and Boeing will say bye-bye to whoever came up with that imho stupid PR stunt."

HIGHLY unlikely they'll meet the goal of even 200 provisional committments, never mind the firm orders the sales and marketing yahoos predicted, in the next day. However, I don't think any of those guys will be sacked because of it. The A350 was indeed an unexpected wild card thrown into the foray that has muddied the waters and slowed 7E7 potentials from signing on by the hoped for target date. That doesn't mean BCA has lost many of these sales, just that it won't gain them as quickly as it had hoped because they must first take the prudent step of evaluating a previously unanticipated competitor. Setting that goal may have been a stupid PR stunt but that's what sales and marketing guys do. It's not really their fault the A350 showed up. What 7E7 committments they have already are quite impressive and it should not be too long into the new year before they do hit that number in both firm and MOUs, the latter of which should firm up within a few months. No big deal they couldn't meet that admittedly rather unrealistic goal.






User currently offlineAntares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 8011 times:

Its 3.10 pm on the last day of the year on (nearly) the roof of Australia.

Antares Airways stands ready to order 90 7E7s today if Boeing will PAY $40 K non-refundable per production slot. The cash can be deposited at the Beechworth branch of the Commonwealth Bank.



User currently offlineRCS763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7916 times:

Antares Airways???????????????????

User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 727 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7808 times:

Maybe they put the 200 order out there to force Airbus's panicked hand so that they know what they're up against instead of having to wait. There's alot more that goes into the decision for a publicly listed company making that kind of announcement. They either have/had the orders and/or are playing a cat & mouse game with their competitor to draw them out.

User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7698 times:

Antares Airways???????????????????
It's Sarcastic, there's no such airline...  Yeah sure

Maybe they put the 200 order out there to force Airbus's panicked hand so that they know what they're up against instead of having to wait

It was more of a case of regaining some credibility in the PR department after someone* blurted out 200 orders. It was not impossible, but the SQ order set them back from the start and along with the absence of a Chinese Order. Basically, the bet the house and lost 1/3 of it... However if they did pull it off, it would have been a fantastic blow to the A350 program...

I guess Airbus spoilt the party for Boeing by throwing in the A-350 quite unexpectedly. Some airlines which were likely to be an early customer for the 7E7, like KLM/NW and Singapore for instance, have waited and are now comparing the A-350 specifications and performance.

Boeing did realise that Airbus will counter the 7E7, but they only didn't know exactly when. So, Boeing set out to gain as many orders as soon as possible before any murmurs on the A350 at Airbus began. They are still in discussions with dozens of airlines, and before the deals were closed Airbus jumped out of the box proclaiming the A350...So a whole new dimension was added to the foray...




Now you're really flying
25 CRPilot : "Maybe they put the 200 order out there to force Airbus's panicked hand so that they know what they're up against instead of having to wait" Unlikely,
26 HAWK21M : Very Unlikely. You think the Deadline might be Extended. regds MEL
27 Atmx2000 : It's a goal, not a deadline. Boeing won't turn into a pumpkin at 12am CST, Jan 1st, 2005 if they haven't gotten 200 commitments.
28 BlueSky1976 : Look at it this way: during one year from the launch Boeing gathered over 120 firm orders for 7E7. It is still two years before the first flight. SQ o
29 PVG : They've done it before when they wanted to collaborate on a large plane a few years ago and then decided to back out after they saw what AB had in min
30 CRPilot : "You think the Deadline might be Extended?" I believe Boeing released a statement saying that they were confident that they would meet the goal in the
31 Gigneil : SQ order is GUARANTEED to happen, since they have the policy of going after "latest, greatest" product. SQ announced they were done considering it in
32 JoFMO : If international negotiations have a fixed deadline but they can't find a solution in the given time, they halt the clock at before midnight. How long
33 Antares : Dear PVG, Its a pleasure to read your posts. Good fortune in both New Years. Antares
34 Atmx2000 : Given that the SQ has plenty of choices in the 200-300 pax market, and given that there is a long time to go before the aircraft enter the market, may
35 DeltaWings : I was talking to a maintenance guy for RAM, and said that they are contemplating 7E7 as it fits their profile, B777 too big for them, B763ER too small
36 PRGLY : I did not read Boeing statement, but may be chinese lunar year was mentioned?????
37 Post contains images Soaringadi : ***"With one day left to get to 200 7E7s will Boeing make it?"*** If they just have to make it... I'll order 70 of them today and then cancel it on 2n
38 Post contains links BN747 : I'm surprised no one mentioned this yet... http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4854 JAL picks 7E7 to replace 767s and A300s Dateline:  Thur
39 Thrust : I'd have to say even if Boeing is unable to make the 200 goal they had planned, they should be proud of what they accomplished. Nearing the end of the
40 Post contains images Newark777 : I'd have to say even if Boeing is unable to make the 200 goal they had planned, they should be proud of what they accomplished I have to agree to that
41 Zvezda : Boeing is not desperate to meet this goal of 200 by year-end because the consequences are insignficant. Therefore Boeing will not offer better pricing
42 Post contains images Gigneil : In a significant morale boost for Boeing, Japan Airlines placed an order for 30 7E7s to be delivered from 2008. JAL ordered both the long-range dash 8
43 Hamlet69 : "250 seats in a 7E7-8 is a lot for a comfortable intercontinental plane." Depends on if it is 3-class or not. I would imagine that JL will configure t
44 Post contains images Backfire : Boeing 7E7 Deadliner...
45 AAplatnumflier : Let me tell ya they may not make that number but their stock is up 30%!!
46 Jsnww81 : I was initially very skeptical about the 7E7 program (certainly more so than the A350), but it does seem like Boeing has secured enough orders to get
47 Boeing7E7 : Of course, an announcement just before midnight Chicago time would be a hell of a way to kick of the new year at a certain Boeing party. Watch that st
48 PlaneSmart : Define firm orders in 2005? When B was the dominant manufacturer, an order, even for a paper plane, mean't serious dollars changed hands. The dollars
49 Antares : Full marks to Boeing for its efforts to market the 7E7 in adverse industry circumstances. Less than full marks for not delivering on the hype on the b
50 NumberTwelve : There was no need for the order of 200 planes till end of 2004. But there also was no need to inform the public about the aim to get 200+ 7e7 orders.
51 Greaser : Less than full marks for not delivering on the hype on the big windows, flying-work-of-art and sky lights, although we do get the humidified air provi
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