Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
US F/A "Sickout" -- The Facts  
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3802 posts, RR: 29
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8247 times:

Although the brunt of the blame for the meltdown of USAirways flight operations and baggage handling over the Christmas weekend has been directed at a rampers who participated in an alleged "sickout" action, the F/As have not been exempt from blame for flight cancllations and massive delays for the same alleged reason.

Here are some interesting facts concerning whatever disruptive actions the F/As may have allegedly taken:

# of F/As calling in sick:

24Dec03 - 261
25Dec03 - 298

24Dec04 - 238
25Dec04 - 306

Based on these numbers, given in a "New York Times" article a few days ago, a slightly higher number of F/As called in sick over Christmas one year ago than this year. From what I recall, no one was accusing F/As of a sickout on the same days one year ago -- when more called in sick than this year.

Comment away...

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8130 times:

Sounds like 238 to 306 more sick calls then they should have had

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17289 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8123 times:

I've never heard anyone blame the FAs. Every story I've seen has pointed the finger clearly at rampers only, and primarily PHL rampers who are notorious for their indolence and gang-like mentality.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3802 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8021 times:

I've never heard anyone blame the FAs.

Admitedly, after the media got their facts straight, the blame for the US Christmas weekend debacle shifted away from the F/As and landed squarely upon the rampers. Nontheless, the F/As did, while the story was still in the speculative stage, receive some blame for staging an alleged sickout that disrupted some flight operations. Which is why I chose to share the facts I found.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 8016 times:

You know what, I agree with MaverickM11 (thats why he's on my RU list  Smile). I haven't seen much that says the F/As were the cause of this issue. Only a slight mentioning in the media about F/As. Everything focused on the militant rampers at PHL.

Having said that, if even one F/A called in sick and they were not sick, they oughta be fired. Plain and simple.

It's an integrity issue, a work ethic issue. Their airline is damn near dead, breathing it's last faint breath (much to my dismay) and yet they thoughtlessly, selfishly call in sick when they're perfectly healthy.



User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 958 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7898 times:

Sadly, facts matter little in this instance. It's perception that matters, and everyone perceives US Airways to be a horrible business right now. Passengers perceive them to have terrible service which doesn't really inspire them to fly US.

User currently offlineRogerThat From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7640 times:

How does the size of US operation during Christmas 2004 compare to Christmas 2003? That would put the year over year sick out numbers in context.

Please forgive the lack of political correctness for calling Christmas, Christmas and not the Non-Denominational-Winter-Holiday.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31660 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7572 times:

Support your Bread & Butter in times of need else there wont be no Bread & Butter.
Maybe when things get better,You will be provided with Cheese too.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineVr-hkg From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7543 times:

A 38% increase in sick numbers in a one day period certainly looks like somebody's not pulling their weight - sickout or no sickout.

User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7531 times:

>>Having said that, if even one F/A called in sick and they were not sick, they oughta be fired. Plain and simple. <<

Let's see.....you work for a company with a history of totally inept and unscrupulous management.....you have given two rounds of concessions to date and had another 21% taken out of your paycheck by the 2nd bankruptcy judge......there is talk that your company may not be alive in 20 days......and your contract (what's left of it, anyway) provides sick days as an accrued benefit and no doctor's note is required when you call in sick.

What are you going to do?

It would be real easy for others to moralize and say "I'd never call in sick if I wasn't" .......but I would say that the garbage I had had to put up with at work....if nothing else.....had made me mentally ill.

Everyone is pointing their finger at the ramp rats but the truth is.....the ramp guys had nothing to do with 99% of the problems experienced by USAirways over the weekend.

It wasn't the ramp guys who converted a whole lot of their flying from big jets to RJs....which are notorious for being unable to accommodate all the baggage, especially on full flights during holiday periods (people bringing more stuff) and when there is inclement weather (have to carry more fuel...bye bye bags)

It wasn't the ramp guys who scheduled 3 people at the Atlanta ticket counter...one to check in F passengers, one to show people how to use the kiosk, and one to check in Y passengers.

It wasn't the ramp guys who had left about 20 unfilled vacancies among rampers per shift in PHL and that's before a single sick call or OJI absence.

I am the furthest thing from a union apologist out there (diehard Texas right-to-work law Republican, thank you) but in this case, I think management set the whole carrier up to fail this weekend so they can blame it on the IAM, get the judge to abrogate the contract, and get the IAM decertified. Why else would USAirways management have already been in touch with 3rd party vendors to do aircraft maintenance?

Yep, I would hate for the USAirways folks to be left without an airline. But in this case, maybe it is time to let the company die a natural death. Worse than seeing the company's employees have to adjust to and get integrated in to other jobs in the marketplace...would be to reward the dishonest, unethical, and unscrupulous folks who run that outfit.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7520 times:

Nobody at US can be singled out. The employees that are against the wage cuts and such are not just FAs. They are the ones who caused the bedlam that PHL had last weekend and it wasn't just FAs.

User currently offlineJc2354 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 569 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7497 times:

TxAgKuwait,

BRAVO



If not now, then when?
User currently offlineGeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 848 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7453 times:

here is my question, how many US flight attendents call in sick on an average day.
Next, US would not be in this shape if not for a number of MANAGEMENT mistakes. The employees are getting this attention because it might be the straw that broke the camels back.
Jeremy


User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7386 times:

vitale--That is a moronic comment.

People--Like Tex said, you may be physically healthy(not coughing up a lung or blowing snot) but I flew with a bunch of FO's and FA's who were getting laid off by AA and their heads weren't in their jobs.

The month after I got the notice that I would be laid off, I experienced the same thing. I had no business in the cockpit. The company disagreed(they think everyone is fine to fly--right up to the point that you ball up the airplane).

Pushing people to work in a severly understaffed position day in and day out also greatly increases the stress level. Stress breaks down the immune system. Life-altering situations like these takes all of your concentration away. Only you can determine if you are fit for duty.

The FAA Medical Dept. to my knowlege has done no studies on the effects of a failing company on an individual's ability to perform their duties. This study would be essential, IMO, to the safety of the airline system.TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineJeb94 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 594 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7254 times:

How quickly people forget that these are human beings, not machines. I certainly don't blame them for using the one benefit they have left. With all of the concessions that the employees have given, where are the concessions by management? This is a common thread among almost all US airlines, especially the majors. The employees give and give so management doesn't have to.

User currently offlineTHAIlover From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6979 times:

I am agree with Jeb94 and many of you folks.

I used to work for the call center of an airline myself(not US Air). I must say that I do get very upset at myself for missing the family gatherings and many events that went on the weekend just because I am scheduled to work.

Beside, holiday season is the worst. The phone calls flooded into the call center. The wait time is long enough to upset the customers and that passed on to me. And especially for Christmas or New Year where is the only opportunity to meet with my family, why would I have miss this happiness and joy to get fed up with customers?.?.? I did call out and I quited 2 months after because I couldn't take it any longer.

I am totally understand the pressure of the US Air employees and can't blame them for this. I can't blame the management neither since holidays is where the profit is. But if I were to predict that this "call out" didn't happen, I would say that the customers will get even more upset from the service.

Virgin Atlantic used to have Christmas off for the whole company(and yes, no flight on Christmas day) and I think this is a fair game. I think if any company would do this, at least alternate the holiday schedule to have employee off, would be successful.

We are human, please understand.
THAIlover



Getting my feet on the rudders and hands on YOKE!!!
User currently offlineFlewGSW From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6420 times:

We all need to see some more statistics.

How many flights did USAirways fly during the Christmas Holidays of 2003 verses 2004?
How many total Flight Attendants were there during the same time period in 2003 verses 2004?
What was the percentage of Flight Attendants on "reserve" status in 2003 verses 2004?

For USAirways, what is the "Sick" policy? How is it defined?

We can all post messages on what we think is a legit' reason for using sick time, but that might or might not fly in the face of what a USArways Flight Attendant represented by the AFA Union agreed to with their employer, let alone federal laws.


User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1601 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6280 times:


"This is the end, my only friend."

J. Morrison



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6184 times:

FlewGSW, I was thinking the same thing....

C'mon Tango-Bravo, you want to try to spin the story, then be prepared to be challenged on it.

What percentage of active US Airways FA's does the 2004 sick calls you posted account for. And in 2003? I'll bet that the percentage of active US FA's out sick is MUCH higher this year than it was last year.

Did Mid-Atlantic have a similar percentage? Or were those folks simply happy to have a job and a paycheck again, doing what they loved? What about the WO regionals?


User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6099 times:

Managers are partly to blaim too, but when the airline folds next month they will look at each other and ask "what happened?" like they are surprised or something. I for one will not miss US Airways.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineUsdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 940 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

"Blaim" should be spelled "blame"...

And no, management did not simply blame the company's problems on flight attendants and ramp agents to get the judge to abrogate their contracts. It is in the interest of everyone to ensure that any concessions on the part of the unionized work groups are consensual.

It is important to note that while US management took only a 5% pay cut, most of their pay is far less than what they would be making at other carriers or even other companies. Many low-level managers already make less than flight attendants, ramp agents and fleet service agents, so the smaller pay cuts make sense. It will be interesting to see, however, if more pay cuts and more RJ's will succeed in turning the company around.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

I still say that management is not to blame here. I mean they are not Angels but US can't compete. They don't have the biz pax base that AA has. They don't have the fleet that CO does and they can't even come close to the fares that WN and B6 have. So what do they have to offer. For years they charged high fares and got away with it. After the WTC when they have to take that loan to survive their fate was sealed since they have shot at paying it back. With the emergence of LCCs with better fleets and service who would you choose?

User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5605 times:

True NIK, although US is the best service available (time wise) for many, MANY trips people take. Including the Shuttle.

Add to that a good FF program with dozens of tropical and Euro destinations. And then Star Alliance.

This has been a poor week for US Airways, but their offerings are far beyond B6 or WN, who serve comparatively few destinations (often at inferior airports) and have relatively poor FF programs (and no 1st class upgrades for top customers).

These are the reasons people still choose US. Customer loyalty is a distant, tiny factor compared to these concrete advantages. Hopefully US can use them more effectively in the coming months.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5386 times:

It's almost like US was the odd airline out. WN and B6 emerged as the two premiere LCCs. AA and CO were the best if you want full service. So why would you fly US? It's sad but true. This sick out I think is the second to last nail in the coffin.



User currently offlineTommyBoy From United States of America, joined May 2000, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

I guess the question management should ask itself is..."How long can you beat down your employees and still expect them to go 'above and beyond' in times of need?"

You can't continue to beat people up then say.."Go out there and show the customers what a good company we are."


25 ScottB : TOLtommy says, "What percentage of active US Airways FA's does the 2004 sick calls you posted account for. And in 2003? I'll bet that the percentage o
26 Jeb94 : I should've specified upper management. The lower level managers are as much or more a victim of the upper level greed as the other employees. Questio
27 FlewGSW : Say, TommyBoy My two cents worth..... Employees (I'm not taking about anyone on this post) – I guess it is human nature that whenever you have a wor
28 Tango-Bravo : TxAgKuwait, BRAVO Megadittoes!
29 Pilotntrng : Im just curious, how many US Air employees are there in here?
30 Boeing7E7 : Nothing funnier than seeing a few people soon to be out of a job attempting to move that date up. I mean, you think they'd want to keep a job as long
31 AirCascadia : If you look at USAIR's plan even with the paycuts to there unionized staff ,they are still not breaking even ,yet you still don't blame management,wou
32 Boeing7E7 : So you are trying to say that some work slow downs are going to bring an airline crashing down..hmmmm the poor employees pensions must be in really go
33 AirCascadia : My real point is lets stop blaming the unions,these employees will be the ones out of work..the management will become new retreads at some other comp
34 Speedbirdheavy : It's all a moot point. These employees will have plenty of time to hang out at home when they don't have their jobs anymore and the airline is grounde
35 Post contains links Singh4US : Airline Troubles Highlight Sick Leave Debate Execs Believe Many Workers Were Actually Healthy Dec 31, 2004 5:33 pm US/Eastern PHILADELPHIA (AP) US Air
36 Mtnmanmakalu : Boeing7E7- AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!!
37 AirCascadia : (And because loading luggage into an airplane is a "highly skilled" job, they can probably get a job at McDonald's.) Speedbirdheavy I dont really know
38 TOLtommy : "But the one thing a union understands is a collective agreement and you never see us reopening the contract because we got our numbers wrong.." BS. I
39 Speedbirdheavy : But the one thing a union understands is a collective agreement and you never see us reopening the contract because we got our numbers wrong.. Another
40 AASTEW : Just a note folks! According to the APFA hotline during Christmas week, AA had 2,000 F/A's and 700 pilots on the sicklist. However, AA didn't have to
41 Post contains images Annoyedfa : ACVITALE: Sounds like 238 to 306 is all it took to do what they wanted. ANCFlyer: So let's fire you the next time you call out sick even when your not
42 ORD2PHL : In terms of adding some color to this claim, and while in the end this seems to have fallen clearly on the thugs...I mean...PHL rampers, does anyone k
43 TOLtommy : I asked Tango-Bravo the same thing (see post #18)... Notice that it's gone unanswered....
44 Jonesy869 : Coverage on Holidays at US has been a problem for years and with low staffing right now and low morale...what do u expect...........identify the chron
45 TOLtommy : I would imagine that the holidays already ARE 1 1/2 time days. That's obviously not the answer. A mandatory doctor's note might help, but they are eas
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
When Will US Airlines Return To The "black?" posted Fri Feb 4 2005 18:16:44 by 7E72004
Who Will Fly "King Tut" To The US posted Fri Dec 10 2004 13:27:11 by Flyfirst
Where Can I Get "Airliner World" In The US? posted Sat Mar 13 2004 16:26:46 by KingGeo3
"The Airline Industry Doesn't Need US" posted Sun Jan 11 2004 22:52:28 by Logos
A.net "fly The 737-200 With Us Tour" STN-DUB posted Mon Oct 7 2002 17:43:17 by Godbless
"them And Us" Culture Between The Pilots And FA's posted Tue May 21 2002 11:17:50 by Vh-daq
US Move "kills" Open Skies ... For Now! posted Tue Dec 5 2006 20:37:39 by Kaitak
"Out Of Chicken?" - Beat The F/A! AA 65 Incident posted Tue Sep 26 2006 14:58:50 by BWI757
The "Hijack-Proof Aircraft" Of The Future posted Wed Sep 20 2006 23:01:04 by Vio
Is 31" Pitch The Magical No. For Lavs Too? posted Thu Jul 13 2006 17:52:48 by CRJ900