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Opinion: NW Will Acquire More 753's.  
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4626 times:
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In my opinion, I think that NW will aquire more 757-300's regardless of the engine-type disputes. The aircraft has proved to be a lightning of success for the medium/longhaul market for us. With CO picking up a few on lease, I don't think NW will be far behind in snagging the few that are up for sale. With them being reletively new and out of production, they could be an attractive candidate to re-engine and reconfigure. Most of these aircraft are overwater equiped from their careers with charter airlines. With our company looking for ways to capitalise on growth, this could be the answer.


Made from jets!
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4576 times:

How many are really left for acquisition?

The re-engining of an airframe is nontrivial, especially on an older type like the 757. Its certainly possible, and NW could certainly use them.

N


User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8589 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4522 times:
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The only ones left are :-

Arkia A/L

4X-BAU(this is showing for sale)

Condor

D-ABOA,OB,OC,OE,OF,OG,OH,OI,OJ,OK,OL,OM,ON

Icelandair

TF-FIX

That apart from NW,CO,TZ that is it,just 15 frames out there.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4496 times:

Won't happen, the cost of having two engine types isn't cost effective. NW blew it when they didn't take up some of their remaining options (16) when Boeing pulled the plug last year, and Boeing gave them ample time to make a decision. They'll live with the 16 PW powered 753s (the only ones assembled) they've got, and figure something else out. Perhaps get some A321s for short range flights which require higher capacity, and re-deploy 752s exclusively on medium/long hauls?

User currently offlineUa777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4460 times:

Well someone has to be making offers on TZ frames. I'm surprised Icelandair is dumping their 753 seeing how this a/c (757S) is the backbone of the airline, well the only bone of the airline. Then again the 752 has better range, min. being around 2400 and max. being around 4000 if I'm correct (the 753 offering a min. of around 2200 and a max of 3400 if I'm correct), which works well for their LONGGG flights. As troubled as they say the industry is only 15 frames is something to be proud of.

Thanks again.

UA777222



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

CO is getting TZs birds in 2005 I believe...


Go Cubs!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

NW is the only PW customer of the 753, and hence with a large 752/753 PW fleet, I hardly see them adding a smallish fleet of RR 753's. As gigneil said, adding the RR 753 is not a non-trivial event for NW.

I really don't ever see any RR 757's in the NW fleet. Is NW pissed that Boeing closed the 757 line? Perhaps......but that is not enough for NW to add used RR 753's to their fleet.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAviatorTJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1838 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

FWIW, also remember that NW got rid of RC's (Now HP's) 757s that were not PW powered.


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User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4332 times:
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Won't happen, the cost of having two engine types isn't cost effective. NW blew it when they didn't take up some of their remaining options (16) when Boeing pulled the plug last year, and Boeing gave them ample time to make a decision. They'll live with the 16 PW powered 753s

LeeLaw, Are you aware that we operated two different engine-types for the DC10? We had the DC10-30/40's in the fleet at the same time. NW had 21 PW-powered DC10-40's and brought on 24 GE DC10-30's between 6/90 and 8/00. I think it is conceivable it could happen if there is enough demand in markets these aircraft.

FWIW, also remember that NW got rid of RC's (Now HP's) 757s that were not PW powered

Well the 757 was at it's infancy at the time, but the engine types were weren't the only reason that NW disposed of them. They differed from the rest of the NW fleet in that RC pilots were the only ones that could fly them due to a different cockpit layout. AW bought these, and had there subseqeunt ordered 757's match the 2nd-hand RC ones



Made from jets!
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4224 times:

We were told in meetings with the company (Im involved with our Union) that NWA approached Boeing to keep the 757 open as they wanted more 757-300's.


THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4139 times:

There are a few former UAL pratt powered 757-200s sitting around, they don't have the capacity of the 757-300 but they have better range.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineN808NW From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

Why dosent NW just order the 762. It can carry about the same amount of pax and cargo as the 753, and it has greater range. The 757 and 767 share the same cockpit, so thats a plus for NW crews.

???????

-Jason



All flights have great IFE...get yourself a window seat, thats something no PTV can beat! flew 808 Pacific an Atlanic
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4005 times:

Why dosent NW just order the 762.

I don't think the 767-200 is still in production...however, the 767-300 is, and it would probably be a good aircraft to use instead of 753s, provided the 763s had a 3-class configuaration. Jut a thought...



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

"Are you aware that we operated two different engine-types for the DC10? We had the DC10-30/40's in the fleet at the same time. NW had 21 PW-powered DC10-40's and brought on 24 GE DC10-30's between 6/90 and 8/00. I think it is conceivable it could happen if there is enough demand in markets these aircraft."

IMO, NW will not be able to scrounge up enough RR powered 753s to make a dual-engined fleet economically feasible in the near term. I'm not sure the DC-10 comparison is a good one, because NW got the DC-10-30s at very reasonable prices (I believe, all were at least 5-10 years old at the time of purchase) and were available in sufficient quantities to make dual-engine types feasible. The largest single source of remaining 753s would be Condor and it's my understanding they're hanging on to them. Should these become available in the future, perhaps NW will go the RR route if there is a need for the aircraft.

"We were told in meetings with the company (Im involved with our Union) that NWA approached Boeing to keep the 757 open as they wanted more 757-300's."

My understanding is that NW management, as is frequently the case, played coy with Boeing regarding taking up its options before 753 production ended. In this case, the game of chicken failed to produce the desired price cuts and Boeing ended the program. Had NW come up with a significant order in a reasonable time frame, I'm sure Boeing would have accommodated the customer and built the aircraft, they did for the former TWA with the MD-80.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

I dont think so JJ. My money is on a few more A330-200's for a little domestic time, namely MCO, RSW, SEA, LAX, PHX, and LAS in season. Perhaps 6 to 8 more.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineContinentalFan From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

I don't think NW will order A332s to fly domestic routes. They will possibly shift old DC-10s off of international routes as they are replaced by A330 series aircraft, but new A330s are expensive. With some exceptions (e.g. Delta, transcons), most domestic widebody flights seem to be continuations of international flights.

User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3900 times:

"My money is on a few more A330-200's for a little domestic time, namely MCO, RSW, SEA, LAX, PHX, and LAS in season."

I'm not so sure the A332 is such a great domestic solution given stage lengths on the routes mentioned, but could well be the only viable option short of introducing another aircraft type like the A321 to free up 757s. Keeping DC-10s in the fleet longer than planned isn't a great option either, because of the mounting mx expense and three person cockpit.

[Edited 2004-12-31 20:38:11]

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

The 767-200 is still in production, but its a horrible choice for NW. Its too much plane for the domestic routes, and its operating costs are much higher than the 753.

Plus, as much as its a common type, its a very different airplane. NW would do just as well acquiring some second hand A310s for this purpose.

A330-200s for domestic runs is hard. The 332 requires a large aircraft gate sized for the likes of 747s and 777s. The 767 can fit in to much smaller gates, making them a better fit for domestic routes.

I do think the best alternative for NW is to add the 321 to the fleet, put it on shorter haul high density runs, and free up 752s. Even swap those freed-up 752s on to some of the HNL flying and have the 753 for some mainland sections.

N


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3843 times:
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If NW were to buy new A321's (not many parked up?) why not just buy up some older 752's? Has NW shown a desire to buy new aircraft when there are older planes available?

User currently offlineFlyabr From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3814 times:

does anyone think NW would get some 7e3s for domestic ops...wouldn't this aircraft be ideal for say MSP to SFO...LAS...etc??

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 859 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

Will CO have winglets on their 753 too, as they are to get on 752??

I know this topic is about NW´s 753, just curius though...

**Gott Nytt Ar**

Michael / SE  Sad *got a cold*



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 1087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Just as A & B are ultra keen to win NW's next new aircraft order, RR are equally keen to play a part.

Not beyond the realms of possibility that RR could offer NW a package of s/h 757's with super sharp power by the hour deal.

A is trying to fill the A32 order book as far forward as possible, so they can announce and develop a replacement without impacting production volumes of the A32. There are great deals around which an A32/757 or 757 only operator could take up relatively quickly.


User currently offlineFlyabr From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

is there any chance that NW could pick up some RR 753s and let there close partner CO maintain them...?

User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8589 posts, RR: 54
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3767 times:
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The basic problem is there are very few 753's left.

Thomas Cook/Condor were looking to dispose of their fleet but found no takers,it was easier to dispose of the 752 fleet,which they have started to do. Assuming they keep them,whhich looks likely now,there are only 6 753's left spare.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

The Domestic system is the exact reason why I expect NWA to eventualy go place a 7E7 order vs an order for A350s, the 7E7-300 has a different wing so and is able to squeeze into 757/767 gates.

The 7E7-300 is much better suited for operations such as NWA's DTW where you can fit them in right next to narrow bodies, also one huge advantage is that the 7E7-300 will probably be able to operate into LGA.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 PlaneSmart : You're right BA319-131. Not many 300's. Perhaps a deal could involve Condor and BA 200's.
26 Gigneil : he 7E7-300 has a different wing so and is able to squeeze into 757/767 gates. Well, same wing. Different tips. also one huge advantage is that the 7E7
27 Jetjack74 : I'm not sure the DC-10 comparison is a good one, because NW got the DC-10-30s at very reasonable prices (I believe, all were at least 5-10 years old a
28 Sllevin : Why doesn't NW just order the 762. While of similar capacity, the 767 birds were designed with much longer range in mind. Hence, they have a heavier s
29 Leelaw : "...that if the prices were right, NW would probably bring more 753's into the fleet regardless of engine-type." I agree, but the lack of available of
30 Jetjack74 : I'm not talking about acquisition of an entire fleet, just about 7-8 more. There are several that are going to become available. Condor, TZ and Arkia
31 Sv11 : I also think that NW will take some RR powered 757-300s. I thought Condor/ATA were looking to sell theirs? Then NW can also get some RR 757-200s and i
32 Gigneil : Its better for NW to acquire a large quantity of them, if that's the route they decide to go. That way they spread the fixed costs of having a differe
33 Aa777jr : Will opening a A330 crew base in SEA make any difference in NW decision to commit more money to ordering 753? Thanks in AAdvance! AA777jr
34 Azjubilee : AA777jr - to answer your question... NO. The 330 base is for the increased 330 use on the west coast. SEA/PDX/SFO-NRT are all 330s right now and SEA-A
35 Jblake1 : Are NW 753 equipped with IFE? I know they don't show anything in the continental US but how about to Hawaii? I'm booking a trip to HNL soon and would
36 N801NW : NW 753's do have IFE via drop down LCD screens every few rows. They do not have PTV's and the IFE is not used when the 753 do domestic (non-overwater)
37 Boeing nut : he 7E7-300 has a different wing so and is able to squeeze into 757/767 gates. 767 gates maybe, 757 gates, no way. The short range 7E7's wing has a spa
38 Jetjack74 : They do not have PTV's and the IFE is not used when the 753 do domestic (non-overwater) flights. We do use them to and from Alaska also.
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