Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7366 posts, RR: 51 Posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4369 times:
In my opinion, I think that NW will aquire more 757-300's regardless of the engine-type disputes. The aircraft has proved to be a lightning of success for the medium/longhaul market for us. With CO picking up a few on lease, I don't think NW will be far behind in snagging the few that are up for sale. With them being reletively new and out of production, they could be an attractive candidate to re-engine and reconfigure. Most of these aircraft are overwater equiped from their careers with charter airlines. With our company looking for ways to capitalise on growth, this could be the answer.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4239 times:
Won't happen, the cost of having two engine types isn't cost effective. NW blew it when they didn't take up some of their remaining options (16) when Boeing pulled the plug last year, and Boeing gave them ample time to make a decision. They'll live with the 16 PW powered 753s (the only ones assembled) they've got, and figure something else out. Perhaps get some A321s for short range flights which require higher capacity, and re-deploy 752s exclusively on medium/long hauls?
Ua777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4203 times:
Well someone has to be making offers on TZ frames. I'm surprised Icelandair is dumping their 753 seeing how this a/c (757S) is the backbone of the airline, well the only bone of the airline. Then again the 752 has better range, min. being around 2400 and max. being around 4000 if I'm correct (the 753 offering a min. of around 2200 and a max of 3400 if I'm correct), which works well for their LONGGG flights. As troubled as they say the industry is only 15 frames is something to be proud of.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16126 posts, RR: 57 Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4187 times:
NW is the only PW customer of the 753, and hence with a large 752/753 PW fleet, I hardly see them adding a smallish fleet of RR 753's. As gigneil said, adding the RR 753 is not a non-trivial event for NW.
I really don't ever see any RR 757's in the NW fleet. Is NW pissed that Boeing closed the 757 line? Perhaps......but that is not enough for NW to add used RR 753's to their fleet.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7366 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4075 times:
Won't happen, the cost of having two engine types isn't cost effective. NW blew it when they didn't take up some of their remaining options (16) when Boeing pulled the plug last year, and Boeing gave them ample time to make a decision. They'll live with the 16 PW powered 753s
LeeLaw, Are you aware that we operated two different engine-types for the DC10? We had the DC10-30/40's in the fleet at the same time. NW had 21 PW-powered DC10-40's and brought on 24 GE DC10-30's between 6/90 and 8/00. I think it is conceivable it could happen if there is enough demand in markets these aircraft.
FWIW, also remember that NW got rid of RC's (Now HP's) 757s that were not PW powered
Well the 757 was at it's infancy at the time, but the engine types were weren't the only reason that NW disposed of them. They differed from the rest of the NW fleet in that RC pilots were the only ones that could fly them due to a different cockpit layout. AW bought these, and had there subseqeunt ordered 757's match the 2nd-hand RC ones
San747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4937 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3748 times:
Why dosent NW just order the 762.
I don't think the 767-200 is still in production...however, the 767-300 is, and it would probably be a good aircraft to use instead of 753s, provided the 763s had a 3-class configuaration. Jut a thought...
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3722 times:
"Are you aware that we operated two different engine-types for the DC10? We had the DC10-30/40's in the fleet at the same time. NW had 21 PW-powered DC10-40's and brought on 24 GE DC10-30's between 6/90 and 8/00. I think it is conceivable it could happen if there is enough demand in markets these aircraft."
IMO, NW will not be able to scrounge up enough RR powered 753s to make a dual-engined fleet economically feasible in the near term. I'm not sure the DC-10 comparison is a good one, because NW got the DC-10-30s at very reasonable prices (I believe, all were at least 5-10 years old at the time of purchase) and were available in sufficient quantities to make dual-engine types feasible. The largest single source of remaining 753s would be Condor and it's my understanding they're hanging on to them. Should these become available in the future, perhaps NW will go the RR route if there is a need for the aircraft.
"We were told in meetings with the company (Im involved with our Union) that NWA approached Boeing to keep the 757 open as they wanted more 757-300's."
My understanding is that NW management, as is frequently the case, played coy with Boeing regarding taking up its options before 753 production ended. In this case, the game of chicken failed to produce the desired price cuts and Boeing ended the program. Had NW come up with a significant order in a reasonable time frame, I'm sure Boeing would have accommodated the customer and built the aircraft, they did for the former TWA with the MD-80.
ContinentalFan From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 356 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3636 times:
I don't think NW will order A332s to fly domestic routes. They will possibly shift old DC-10s off of international routes as they are replaced by A330 series aircraft, but new A330s are expensive. With some exceptions (e.g. Delta, transcons), most domestic widebody flights seem to be continuations of international flights.
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3643 times:
"My money is on a few more A330-200's for a little domestic time, namely MCO, RSW, SEA, LAX, PHX, and LAS in season."
I'm not so sure the A332 is such a great domestic solution given stage lengths on the routes mentioned, but could well be the only viable option short of introducing another aircraft type like the A321 to free up 757s. Keeping DC-10s in the fleet longer than planned isn't a great option either, because of the mounting mx expense and three person cockpit.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16319 posts, RR: 87 Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3607 times:
The 767-200 is still in production, but its a horrible choice for NW. Its too much plane for the domestic routes, and its operating costs are much higher than the 753.
Plus, as much as its a common type, its a very different airplane. NW would do just as well acquiring some second hand A310s for this purpose.
A330-200s for domestic runs is hard. The 332 requires a large aircraft gate sized for the likes of 747s and 777s. The 767 can fit in to much smaller gates, making them a better fit for domestic routes.
I do think the best alternative for NW is to add the 321 to the fleet, put it on shorter haul high density runs, and free up 752s. Even swap those freed-up 752s on to some of the HNL flying and have the 753 for some mainland sections.
PlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 739 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3543 times:
Just as A & B are ultra keen to win NW's next new aircraft order, RR are equally keen to play a part.
Not beyond the realms of possibility that RR could offer NW a package of s/h 757's with super sharp power by the hour deal.
A is trying to fill the A32 order book as far forward as possible, so they can announce and develop a replacement without impacting production volumes of the A32. There are great deals around which an A32/757 or 757 only operator could take up relatively quickly.
Ba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8353 posts, RR: 55 Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3510 times:
The basic problem is there are very few 753's left.
Thomas Cook/Condor were looking to dispose of their fleet but found no takers,it was easier to dispose of the 752 fleet,which they have started to do. Assuming they keep them,whhich looks likely now,there are only 6 753's left spare.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16564 posts, RR: 52 Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3503 times:
The Domestic system is the exact reason why I expect NWA to eventualy go place a 7E7 order vs an order for A350s, the 7E7-300 has a different wing so and is able to squeeze into 757/767 gates.
The 7E7-300 is much better suited for operations such as NWA's DTW where you can fit them in right next to narrow bodies, also one huge advantage is that the 7E7-300 will probably be able to operate into LGA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
25 PlaneSmart: You're right BA319-131. Not many 300's. Perhaps a deal could involve Condor and BA 200's.
26 Gigneil: he 7E7-300 has a different wing so and is able to squeeze into 757/767 gates. Well, same wing. Different tips. also one huge advantage is that the 7E7
27 Jetjack74: I'm not sure the DC-10 comparison is a good one, because NW got the DC-10-30s at very reasonable prices (I believe, all were at least 5-10 years old a
28 Sllevin: Why doesn't NW just order the 762. While of similar capacity, the 767 birds were designed with much longer range in mind. Hence, they have a heavier s
29 Leelaw: "...that if the prices were right, NW would probably bring more 753's into the fleet regardless of engine-type." I agree, but the lack of available of
30 Jetjack74: I'm not talking about acquisition of an entire fleet, just about 7-8 more. There are several that are going to become available. Condor, TZ and Arkia
31 Sv11: I also think that NW will take some RR powered 757-300s. I thought Condor/ATA were looking to sell theirs? Then NW can also get some RR 757-200s and i
32 Gigneil: Its better for NW to acquire a large quantity of them, if that's the route they decide to go. That way they spread the fixed costs of having a differe
33 Aa777jr: Will opening a A330 crew base in SEA make any difference in NW decision to commit more money to ordering 753? Thanks in AAdvance! AA777jr
34 Azjubilee: AA777jr - to answer your question... NO. The 330 base is for the increased 330 use on the west coast. SEA/PDX/SFO-NRT are all 330s right now and SEA-A
35 Jblake1: Are NW 753 equipped with IFE? I know they don't show anything in the continental US but how about to Hawaii? I'm booking a trip to HNL soon and would
36 N801NW: NW 753's do have IFE via drop down LCD screens every few rows. They do not have PTV's and the IFE is not used when the 753 do domestic (non-overwater)
37 Boeing nut: he 7E7-300 has a different wing so and is able to squeeze into 757/767 gates. 767 gates maybe, 757 gates, no way. The short range 7E7's wing has a spa
38 Jetjack74: They do not have PTV's and the IFE is not used when the 753 do domestic (non-overwater) flights. We do use them to and from Alaska also.