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Is Qantas The Largest Foreign Carrier Into SIN?  
User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6122 times:


People have often commented on the unexpectedly high number of Qantas 744s at LAX during most of the day (up to 5 on most days);
I have often been amazed at the number of Qantas planes at Sinagpore's Changi..in the evenings, from some angles, it looks like SYD rather than SIN with all these big red tails everywhere.
From Singapore, Qantas flies to and from: Sydney (twice daily), Melbourne (Daily), Brisbane (daily), Perth (Daily), Adelaide (?), London (Twice Daily) Frankfurt (? Daily) as well as code shares to Bahrain, Dubai and Paris.
This makes SIN it's the airline's biggest and most important hub outside of SYD.
Is there another carrier besides SQ with the same scaleof operations at Changi? It's not hard to see why Qantas has stayed away from KUL which is only 45 mins away, given the extent of it's operations at SIN

I wonder if QF will also move into T3 when it's completed, given it will likely be (after SQ) the largest A380 operator into and out of Changi in 2006.

Qantasclub.




Long Haul is the only way to go
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

The answer to your questions depends on how you define the largest foreign carrier. In terms of available seats, Qantas might indeed be the largest foreign operator at Changi, but in times of daily departures, I'm sure there's airlines with a larger number of flights.

Garuda Indonesia, for instance, has the following flights from Singapore:

Jakarta (up to 9 daily)
Medan (daily)
Pekanbaru-Padang (4 weekly)
Semarang (4 weekly)
Jogjakarta (3 weekly)
Surabaya (10 weekly)
Denpasar (daily)
Bangkok (daily)
Ho Chi Minh (daily)
Hongkong (3 weekly)
Shanghai (3 weekly)

and the list used to be longer.



User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6058 times:

Thanks, HB-IWC.

I mean by capacity.number of seats.




Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineNumberTwelve From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6027 times:

Hi, Qantasclub, I think you forgot Darwin - and FRA is 1x daily.
You can't count codeshare.
But it's really impressive to see all the QF planes at the same time.



signature censored by admin - so check my profile
User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

If I'm not mistaken, QF is the second largest carrier in SIN. I know it is in terms of seats and I'm pretty sure it is in terms of movements.

That is the reason why the Singapore government is pressing the issue for beyond traffic rights out of the Oz to the US. As it currently stands, QF has beyond rights for all their operations in SIN while SQ has nothing beyond in OZ.

I'm just the messenger, so don't shoot!


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5997 times:

I know it is in terms of seats and I'm pretty sure it is in terms of movements.

Yes in terms of number of seats, no in terms of number of movements. Garuda Indonesia counts for more movements than Qantas at Changi.



User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5975 times:

HB-IWC,

Like I said, I'm not sure of that. I do remember reading something in the Straits Times about QF and the size of their operation. Part of the Singapore government's argument about beyond rights was the size of the operation, being second only to SQ's.

I tried to look at the Changi website, but there really isn't any info there. Plus Garuda has cut back dramatically in the past couple of years.


User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5869 posts, RR: 39
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

QantasClub, Perth-Singapore is double daily and has been for a long time with Qantas.


a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5901 times:


Thanks, NumberTweleve, I haven't included code share flights in the above tally, so it's all Qantas metal.

It's interesting to note that despite the impressive frequencies QF operates from SIN-AUS, SQ has even much greater capacity to AUS: Thrice a day to SYD and double dailys to Melbourne and also more capacity from Bris and Per to SIN.

The issue of rights of SQ to operate beyond SYD is a valid one...SQ has been very keen to procure rights AUS-US for a long time now, however i believe that the Australian government has been stalling because they know that there is no way Changi will limit business from it's largest foreign airline into and out of SIN no matter what they decide.



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5862 times:

Of course the Australians don't want to give SQ rights to operate from Australia to other destinations -- that's worth a lot more than QF being able to operate from Singapore. Singapore is nice, but as an O&D market it doesn't compare with Australia.

Steve


User currently offlineGardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5860 times:

Surely Malaysia Airlines has a greater presence in SIN over Qantas, both in terms of capacity and frequency.
I know that MAS did cut down after SARS and didnt really re-instate the lost capacity but still, wouldnt MH have a greater presence still?



User currently offlineLuxair From Netherlands, joined Jan 2001, 853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Maybe off topic but is QF flying to BKK from SYD, if yes, on a daily basis?

Thanks for the info  Wink/being sarcastic



Marvin Lee Cooper
User currently offlineMilesDependent From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5794 times:

QF fly daily BKK-SYD. Flight is QF2 op'd by 3 class 744.

MD


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4516 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Like I said, I'm not sure of that. I do remember reading something in the Straits Times about QF and the size of their operation.

An easy count of this week's SIN operations will learn that Qantas' movements don't even come close to Garuda's, and the airline might even be outnumbered in daily departures by the likes of MH and TG.

Here's QF's weekly ops:

QF005 FRA daily
QF006 SYD daily
QF009 LHR daily
QF010 MEL daily
QF015 LHR 3 weekly
QF016 PER 3 weekly
QF031 LHR daily
QF032 SYD daily
QF052 BNE daily
QF072 PER 4 weekly
QF078 PER daily
QF082 DRW-ADL 3 weekly

for a grand total of 69 weekly departures.

Now here are Garuda's:

GA822 BKK daily
GA823 CGK daily
GA825 CGK daily
GA827 CGK daily
GA829 CGK daily
GA831 CGK daily
GA833 CGK daily
GA837 CGK daily
GA839 MES daily
GA841 DPS daily
GA843 SUB daily
GA845 PKU-PDG 4 weekly
GA855 SUB 3 weekly
GA858 HKG 3 weekly
GA859 CGK 3 weekly
GA868 SGN daily
GA869 CGK daily
GA873 SRG 4 weekly
GA877 JOG 3 weekly
GA896 PVG 3 weekly
GA897 CGK 3 weekly

for a grand total of 117 weekly departures.



User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5542 times:


Interesting, HB-IWC. I didn't know GA had such a large operation at SIN. Do you know what aircraft they operate mostly out of SIN?



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

Do you know what aircraft they operate mostly out of SIN?



Boeing 737s... and we're all sick of them. Honestly. Sometimes its 3 GA B737s one after another.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineFlyinaggie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5448 times:

Both GA and MH have a large presence in the area. One thing about MH is that most flights are shuttle flights to KUl then connect onwards from there. The reason many don't see MH at the airport is because the turn around time for MH planes at SIN is usually about 50 min. or less.... and yeah you see so many GA 737's it's akin to seeing trees in the forest.

User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5441 times:

The issue of rights of SQ to operate beyond SYD is a valid one...SQ has been very keen to procure rights AUS-US for a long time now, however i believe that the Australian government has been stalling because they know that there is no way Changi will limit business from it's largest foreign airline into and out of SIN no matter what they decide.

It's certainly valid. But the Government of Singapore were so determined to make SIN the primary regional hub, they practically gave away rights to everyone without thinking the whole thing through. That decision is now coming to bite them in the arse.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5386 times:

"That decision is now coming to bite them in the arse."

Not really...it's working out just fine for the government and the country. Either way they get the pax and any fees/taxes they pay.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17828 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5271 times:

I just did some quick research and it looks like QF has about double the capacity that GA and MH do. In December QF had about 5000 daily seats whereas GA and MH had about 2000 each. The data is a little old but take it for what it's worth.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

Of course the Australians don't want to give SQ rights to operate from Australia to other destinations -- that's worth a lot more than QF being able to operate from Singapore.

Not true, and not at all.

Without QF being able to operate from Singapore, their entire European operation is dead.

QF would never get the same level of service from HKG, BKK, or any of the other good enroute stops.

I suppose KUL would give QF what they want.

N


User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5869 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4977 times:

Qantas would be the largest carrier that's not in the immediate region of say 2 hrs flying time, Thai has a good presence at Changi also, but for truly nonregional Qantas would be by far the biggest carrier through Changi.

lets say for instance that you did it by seat numbers, if you look at say a monday when all the flights listed above by HB-IWC were operating then you could have close to 5000 seats from QF alone flying through Changi.

that's alot of seats!



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4640 times:

Surely Malaysia Airlines has a greater presence in SIN over Qantas

It might surprise you that MH presence in SIN is quite pathetic compared to QF or GA. MH & SQ operate a joint-service for KUL-SIN sector, a legacy from the days when Malaysia & Singapore were the same country.

SIN-KUL
MH A330 4x daily
MH B734 1x daily
SQ B772 6x daily

SIN-PEN
MH B734 1x daily
SQ B772 17x weekly

SIN-KCH
MH B734 1x daily

SIN-BKI
MH B734 3x weekly

[Edited 2005-01-04 02:55:30]

User currently offlineEjazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 725 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

It might be worth remembering that although Qantas has a very large presence in Singapore the amount of Business originating solely from Singapore and therefore revenue is in fact very small.


Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4530 times:

It might be worth remembering that although Qantas has a very large presence in Singapore the amount of Business originating solely from Singapore and therefore revenue is in fact very small.

That's probably true of SQ themselves...


25 Qantasclub : Interesting replies... Gigneil: I wouldn't go as far as to say that without Changi, their entire European operation is dead. As you mentioned, I thin
26 United Airline : I thought its MH or CX or GA
27 Philsquares : FYI, QF's marketing is pretty strong in SIN. I just priced some vacation packages to the Gold Coast in March and QF/BA is substantially cheaper than S
28 HB-IWC : I just did some quick research and it looks like QF has about double the capacity that GA and MH do. Qantas would be the largest carrier that's not in
29 Post contains images Qantas077 : oi vlaka, i wasn't being protective of my own carrier, i was just doing some quick adding up and giving people some rough idea as to how many seats QF
30 Ejazz : QantasClub You completely miss my point.
31 AF022 : from the OAG, what I can tell is the following: weekly seat departures from SIN: 213,630 SQ 26,721 QF 20,143 GA 18,976 MI 18,698 TG 15,603 CX 13,546 M
32 NumberTwelve : 35 weekly departures from SIN with Transbrasil???
33 AF022 : my database - sometimes with errors - shows a carrier TR based in SIN with A320 service to BKK, HDY and HKT. i don't find these flights after a quick
34 Mandala499 : Would TR mean Tiger Air? What's ValuAir's code? Mandala499
35 Qantas077 : ValuAir is VF from what i understand.
36 Qantasclub : Interesting that QF has more seat departures than MI which is based in Singapore; due to the size of aircraft QF operates into SIN I guess. Also, imp
37 The Coachman : QF has not been keen to open up DXB as a hub. And it might start to bite them in the bud. EK is snapping up a lot of business on the Kangaroo route, p
38 Marara : One of the australian aviatioin mags says Qantas are re-evaluating a DXB hub. read into it what you will.
39 Thadocta : I think that one thing which needs to be remembered here (and it might have been mentioned, this board is so long winded I may not have noticed) is th
40 NumberTwelve : Thadocta, what do you mean with "natural hub"? You mean it's on the way to Europe? But so is KUL, BKK and DEL, for example. So that's nothing special.
41 Airbazar : You're all ignoring one important fact: O&D yield. The majority of the traffic may be from transit passengers but there's a lot of business between Si
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