Catatonic From United Kingdom (Wales), joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 5 Posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1718 times:
From what I have seen BA and BMI do well from being in an alliance with oneworld and star alliance especially on internal feeder flights. Why isn't Virgin in any sort of alliance? Maybe they could look at skyteam? Surely being in an alliance is more beneficial than not?
Star_member From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 185 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1681 times:
the best alliance for VS is star. they have a complementary network with BD and already code share. DJ in australia will need to increase their service levels soon to stop the loss of market share to QF and Jetstar, so they would be useful for star also.
QuestAir From United States, joined Dec 2004, 348 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1657 times:
I agree; Star is the best fit for VS. As Star_member pointed out, they could hook up with BD to take on BA. Don't they have a solid relationship with SQ as well?
Padcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1582 times:
Well why isn't one of the largest airlines in Europe not interested in an alliance?
It's something they don't need. They're protected by huge barriers to competition by operating in and out of LHR. They can survive on London O&D alone. Their only competition is BA for premium revenue, hence you have haircuts and massages up front.
Bad for the UK, as more air commerce will flows through FRA and CDG.
BH346 From United States, joined Jan 2000, 3265 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1572 times:
I remember reading an article a few years ago stating that Richard Branson viewed alliances as being detrimental but they'll probably end up accepting them. They already have a deal going on with Continental and Singapore I believe.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
ZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 6430 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1429 times:
VS basically have their own mini alliance with Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Express, Virgin America, Pacific Blue and Virgin Blue all being under one huge umbrella. Not to metion that they code share with several carriers.
Essjay From South Africa, joined Dec 2000, 75 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1223 times:
Star seems to be the way to go; VS now also has an alliance with SA (I wonder if VS has dropped Nationwide?), who will be joining Star in the near future. SA also codeshares with BD so Star Alliance would be in quite a strong position as far as SA-UK routes go if VS had to join too.
Kkfla737 From United States, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1187 times:
BD and VS will now be competeting for the first time (I believe) on the LHR-BOM route. How will this affect the relationship which has worked well for both airlines?
ConcordeBoy From United States, joined Feb 2001, 18542 posts, RR: 79 Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1181 times:
VS basically have their own mini alliance with Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Express, Virgin America, Pacific Blue and Virgin Blue all being under one huge umbrella.
...perhaps I missed some'n, but there appear to be two airlines in the above statement which don't exist (and may never).
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
Sabena332 From Germany, joined May 2001, 13920 posts, RR: 87 Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1153 times:
I would already be pleased when they would have an airline partner which is operating feeder flights to/from LHR. It is incredible expensive to book a long-haul flight on VS combined with a feeder flight on another airline here from Germany.
VS045 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 192 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1118 times:
VS have no neeed to join an alliance, because they do NOT want to fly everywhere, unlike BA, UA, LH etc. VS only flies to top leisure and business destinations and relies almost soley on O&D out of LHR and especially out of LGW.
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 27 Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1105 times:
The fact that VS ins't in any alliance while its Singapore Airlines part owner is telling.
Quite frankly, alliances mean bugger all at the end of the day. Lots of talking, lots of executive down time, lots of change resistant members fighting with pro-change members, and seriously, Jo Public knows how to change flights at an airport, and has worked out that seamless baggage transfers can mean lost baggage or extra security checks anyhow.
No one can prove any benefit at all from alliances in the strict economic sense, since it is impossible to 'model' what would have happened if they had not come into effect.
The merits of alliances have been further burned by the likes of Qantas,SAS, Air NZ and BA doing thriving unofficial business with the members of allinaces other than the one they belong to anyhow.
None of the things we were promised by the alliance kiddies came true. No joint orders for identical jets, no equality of flight standards (thank goodness!), no same food, same unifgorms (gotta save heaps of money having only one type of uniform world wide...really...) no single shade of white, no identical business class cabins and no consistent recognition of FFP status.
It really is the biggest dog's breakfast of undergraduate theory meeting the cruel real world you could wish for, and is an embarrassment to many managements .
You should sit through some of the investor analyst meetings I've been to, the ones where the media are forbidden, and you would know that alliances are like most marriages, on the rocks....
Eta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 1478 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1044 times:
Look at the VS route map- most destinations are ex British colonies or destinations that have other historical ties to the UK. Therefore, as stated above, most traffic is ex UK originating or destined.
Live in continental Europe and want to fly VS? Buy a cheap low-cost ticket to LHR/LGW then fly VS- they aren't too nterested in transit traffic.
ConcordeBoy From United States, joined Feb 2001, 18542 posts, RR: 79 Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1010 times:
None of the things we were promised by the alliance kiddies came true.
...nor is this statement remotely accurate by any stretch of the imagination.
No joint orders for identical jets
...yet
no equality of flight standards (thank goodness!)
As your followup comment clearly indicates, this statement is more subjective than factual.
While some airlines have made it exceedingly clear that they plan to maintain their individual identities both inside and out of the cabin-- others have indeed attempted to emulate their partner(s) flight/cabin/service standards.
no same food, same unifgorms, no single shade of white, no identical business class cabins
Refresh me again as to when/where the "alliance kiddies" promised any of this...?
and no consistent recognition of FFP status.
This is the sore spot in all alliances, particularly OneHeathroWorld.... that I will most certainly agree with you upon.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
UA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1006 times:
"Don't they have a solid relationship with SQ as well?"
SQ owns 49% of VS.
I doubt VS would join an alliance though. Like EK, they are the type of carrier that would rather just have different codeshare partners than be tied to an alliance.
AeroWesty From United States, joined Oct 2004, 15527 posts, RR: 62 Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 979 times:
no same food, same unifgorms, no single shade of white, no identical business class cabins
Refresh me again as to when/where the "alliance kiddies" promised any of this...?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't one of the longest-standing alliances been working for a number of years to align quite a bit of their product? Or are we talking a more global-type of an alliance such as Star or OneWorld in this thread?
Northwest and KLM seek to offer high-quality, matching products allowing flexibility for individual differences in accent and identity between the two partners.
I'm getting my apples and oranges confused reading the different posts.
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 27 Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 925 times:
I endured the original investor briefings by UA and BA and a few others on what the alliances would do, back in 1998, so I have no doubts about saying they haven't delivered. I even sat through Colin Marshall saying he could live with BA losing the BA identity if it controlled Oneworld, sorry oneworld, as a true global brand like Cunard.
Marshall was very good at a number of things, but the alliance thing 'escaped' as different things happened, not the least, the repeated failure of his brave efforts to merge AA/BA.
To all intents and purposes alliances are joining the ranks of the walking dead.
Joint service agreements and tightly constructed code shares are thriving. For example, you could argue that the very successful UA/LH code share out of Chicago would be little affected by either being in the same or different alliances.
I think it is reasonable to suggest that without alliances some carriers would have been forced out of business. Equally I suggest that it is not a good thing to modify competition to save the weak. the weak should die.
It is astonisingly, even to a cynic like myself, that after all this time neither alliance has achieved stable 100% integration of back office and reservations systems.
I doubt that I'm not alone in experiencing the check in apology for not being able to issue the boarding pass needed for the connecting carrier, not having my favourite seat booking honoured, even when it appears on my itinerary, and being treated like an alien entity on producing my Qantas Club card at a lounge where they think it must be a forgery because it spells Quantas without the 'u.'
To be fair to alliances, especially Star, they do offer some astonishingly good combo deals from t
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