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Emirates And Airbus, Robbing Peter To Pay Paul?  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5331 times:
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Everytime I read that Emirates has order 45 A380s I wonder why. I am sure they got a good deal as part of the launch order/customer process. If the A380 is a big sucess from the get go, hasn't Emirates placed themselves in a position that they can lease out their A380's, thereby stripping Airbus of potential new customers?

Does anyone know the rate of delivery that they will be taking their 380s?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5273 times:

45 is a lot to absorb. Even for Emirates. Especially something that big. I have always wondered about that too.

I think that Airbus is smart enough to cover the bases with a clause in the purchase contract that woud prohibit such a move unless further deliveries were in jeopardy with Emirates itself. I would also further suggest that the airline would have to get Airbus approval before taking such a step.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5213 times:

Question 1: What is the delivery schedule? Spread over 3yrs it's a lot. Over 10 a different matter.

Question 2: If we were talking about the latest Ferrari or Lambo, then 'scalpers' do take delivery positions and on-sell them. I don't think the A38, A35 or 7e7 are in this category.

Question 3: Are there limitations on on-selling the delivery positions, or the aircraft when built? The only restrictions would normally be sales to restricted countries. Even selling an A38 to B would probably be OK.

When B models dominanted the market, and especially when new 747's were on every airlines shopping list, B were able to make other model purchases a condition. U can have 1x 747 next year, but if you order 5x 737's you can have 3.

And in those days, deposits were non-refundable, non-transferrable and non-deferrable. If you didn't exercise orders & options before the expiry dates, the dollars went to B's bottom line. How times have changed.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4802 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5124 times:

Possibilities that could arise are:

1. EK creating an independent AIRCRAFT LEASING COMPANY and putting in its newly ordered A 380s there alongside a few of its older aircraft at the time the A 380 is delivered such as the B 772As and B 773s and maybe a few A 332s.

2. EK could at a later stage convert some of those 45 A 380s into PURE FREIGHTERS before production has started on them.



User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Some of these A380's are being leased by EK so I don't think that they will be leasing any of them. Older aircraft which the A380's may replace could be leased insted of being sold.

I have hear rumors that EK is desperate for capacity, however sometimes I think they have gone a bit overboard placing large orders for new aircraft and leasing/buying whatever secondhand aircraft they can get their hands on. Surley somethings gotta give sooner or later.


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 4844 times:

If Emirates had purchased 45 B 747-400ADV
everybody would be happy and you wouldn´t read any comments how ridicolous this order is.

Let´s wait and see what will happen. EK definitly has the pax figures on some routes which need such an A/C.

Since money isn´t a issue in countries like the UAE or Qatar, we can expect some more big big orders from their airlines. (QR poss 60 B7E7 or A350, EY just placed a large one)


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

OHLHD,

No I would think it would have been ridiculous had they ordered 45 B747 as well. 45 airplanes of that size is a lot of capacity.

Clickhappy,

I do not see a problem really. Whether its 45 airplanes sold to say, 9 customers, or all 45 to just one they still chalk up the sale regardless of the ultimate operator. Actually it may be preferable to have a single, financially-backed-to-the-hilt company like Emirates placing an order than having to deal with multiple companies with diverse financial situations to sell the same number of airplanes.


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4650 times:

If Emirates had purchased 45 B 747-400ADV
everybody would be happy and you wouldn´t read any comments how ridicolous this order is.

Less so because that aircraft would fit in between their current largest aircraft,the 773,and the A380.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

I'm assuming none are the freighter version..having said that..thats A LOT of passenger seats to add, not to mention other competition....even though it will take a few years to get those jets.........isnt' it a bit too much? Is EK growing THAT quickly with yields doing THAT good?

my guess would be for an Asia expansion more than anything else..ie. more India, China, etc....

any opinions comments welcomed.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

I think that Airbus is smart enough to cover the bases with a clause in the purchase contract that woud prohibit such a move unless further deliveries were in jeopardy with Emirates itself. I would also further suggest that the airline would have to get Airbus approval before taking such a step.

You buy it, you own it. And the owner's rights include the right to sell your property whenever and to whom ever you want. That's the liberty to have property, nobody can stop you.

It's just a giant speculation: maybe they win, maybe they lose.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineCapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 450 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

But you all tend to forget that what goes on iside the plane what counts now adays, we don't know for sure how EK will transform the interioe, naybe they keep 400 seats but the inside could be a flying living rooms, suites, night clubs etc....i mean DXB-JFK 14H25mn, imagine what you can do in there.The majority of the airlines will redesign their interiors in a more luxurious way, people that fky EK can afford such a thing, have you tried to see their prices from europe to DXB, i can't afford them.

User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
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Sure but couldn't EK sell their delivery positions, ala Delta, and then the planes would be built to the new customers specs?

User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3985 times:

Capri, where are you looking for EK prices?
They usually are very affordable. At least for flights from Germany.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineCapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 450 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

well, especially from London, of all websites i check emirates come way down from low prices to high prices, like now in january for example, i found airlines with around £270, meanwhile EK around £400.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

"i mean DXB-JFK 14H25mn, imagine what you can do in there"

I flew that route back in July/August....cattle class, and all they did was pack it in!

now business/1st class, maybe things would be different..



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3832 times:



It seems Emirates is trying to build a holiday/ conference/ event paradise / business center before the oil wells dry up.

A380´s to bring in the millions of tourists..


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

Previous posts on EK's decision to acquire huge amounts of A380's all appeared to be very biased; I personally felt that many posts were based on "pure jealousy" that this airline can afford A380's, and fill them, while their national airline's can not, and I say this while being very aware that my county's national carrier can barely afford a new 737!

I personally applaud EK for their courageous step; they surely have thought it over and I really do hope it goes their way.

So what if they have oil and money, so does Nigeria but have they created something similar?

These people have been blessed with a fantastic geographical location, they have experienced Management, great staff (nope I do not work for Emirates) and a very solid product, of course they will succeed, why shouldn't they.



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineCapri From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 450 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

Well even Nigeria got a great geographical location, the best in western and central africa, but it was not used to the fullest potential, but we never know with the established Virgin Nigeria, it'a all about the will and desire to succeed, sometimes i get the feeling like especially SQ keep updating their planes just to say we are the first or we did it first.

User currently offlineGlideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3383 times:


The future is about H2O. You can live without oil. Not water. Let's hope they receive #43 in time.  Smile



To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

It seems Emirates is trying to build a holiday/ conference/ event paradise / business center before the oil wells dry up.

It's commendable that someone in the Middle East has this sort of forethought...

A380´s to bring in the millions of tourists..

That explains the 600+ seat capacity...

I personally applaud EK for their courageous step; they surely have thought it over and I really do hope it goes their way.

There is no courage in business, there is risk. I assume EK has done the math and assumes the risk vs. return is worthwhile, but this is still a massive order. Assuming list prices (yeah right), 45 A388 equate to roughly 200 narrow-body 73G/A319. For reference, the world's largest narrow-body opperator (WN) has ordered 275 73G over the last decade....


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9644 posts, RR: 68
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3237 times:
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For reference, the world's largest narrow-body opperator (WN) has ordered 275 73G over the last decade....

Bad analogy. WN flys all over the US, not bringing people from all around the world to one place, which isn't the most stable area of the world, nor the temprate.

If you want to compare Emirates to an existing airline wouldn't Signapore be the closest?


User currently offlineFeroze From India, joined Dec 2004, 794 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

"before the oil wells dry up."


Dubai, which is Emirates base, has/had very little oil reserves anyway. Its substantial wealth come from the port itself. It has been developing itself as a business/leisure destination to boost its coffers....very successfully. Abu Dhabi and other emirates within the UAE are the ones with the oil.

Feroze

[Edited 2005-01-06 00:19:08]

User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8459 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3070 times:

Bad analogy. WN flys all over the US, not bringing people from all around the world to one place, which isn't the most stable area of the world, nor the temprate.

I'm sure if WN were international they would bring in lots of people. The point that DFWRevolution was making was that EK is not the only airline in the past decade to be placing large orders.

Perhamps EK just feel that they need this much capacity. Time will tell and we will see what happens with all these aircraft.


User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2238 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2562 times:


There is no courage in business, there is risk. I assume EK has done the math and assumes the risk vs. return is worthwhile, but this is still a massive order.


How cute  Insane



Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2452 times:

Clickhappy, remember that EK is not just an airline that's about "bringing people from all around the world to one place", but an airline that is also focussing on connecting traffic - and DXB itself isn't really all that unstable.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
25 FlyingDoctorWu : I did this comparios in August so I don't think it's still valid. If I am not mistaken EK has posted more orders but I think that it still illustrates
26 OHLHD : At least i would be happy if they had ordered B747-400ADV.......
27 Jacobin777 : All I have to say is that those folks at Airbus BETTER get the planes up to their specs, or they will have one BIG problem on their hands......but tho
28 Karan69 : They have a policy of selling/leasing their aircrafts after they become 5 years old-i heard this on a program AAJ TAK news channel did on them---altou
29 Post contains links Capri : If you look at its fleet history, i think they tend to update their fleet the same as SQ does, or maybe they are trying to copy SQ in fleet often rene
30 Cedarjet : SQ aren't so hot on fleet renewal idea these days. They still fly the A310, right? Those planes are really old. And they still have the original entir
31 CRJ900 : I read in Flight International some time ago that EK is planning to phase out some or all of their A330-200s as they are already too small (capacity w
32 9V-SVC : Quote : "SQ aren't so hot on fleet renewal idea these days. They still fly the A310, right? Those planes are really old. And they still have the origi
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