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Aviation Schools And The Road To Becoming A Pilot.  
User currently offlineJalto27R From United States of America, joined May 2004, 857 posts, RR: 15
Posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4509 times:

Hi guys. I know there are alot of pilots in here, and alot of others that just know everything there is about this career. My biggest goal in life is to become a pilot, and to excel through the ranks of an airline because of my experience. The problem is there is no one around me that has gone through that experience who can give me advice on where to go. My big thing is to get w/e degrees are best for leading the pack of airline hopefuls. What are the best schools to get aviation degrees? What kind of costs will I experience getting all my qualifications? Finally, I ask, since I will graduate high school in 2008, and college, who knows when, will the airline industry have recovered so that it will be a viable job to support me? Thank you for any help, I greatly appreciate it.

Michael

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4041 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

2nd time I've posted this link tonight, in 2 seperate threads but here goes :-

http://www.pprune.org

Goto the "wannabe's" section in the forums and do a search. It's free to join too. All you might ever want to know about flying training and more can be found on that site.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

I just found out after spending $80k on a top aviation university that I could've done it for half that price at a community college in half the time. That being said, you will get a job that can support you, you just need to research and see what type of university/college will fit your personal needs.

User currently offlineAv8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

"My big thing is to get w/e degrees are best for leading the pack of airline hopefuls. What are the best schools to get aviation degrees? "

What you major in doesn't matter, just as long as you get a degree. Having an AV degree is by no means the key to getting hired. Many suggest getting a degree in something OTHER than aviation as you have someting to fall back on if you are ever furloughed during your career. I highly suggest getting your 2 year at a CC, then tranfer to a 4 year university to save money that you can put towards your flight training.

"What kind of costs will I experience getting all my qualifications?"

If you did them via a local flight school, expect about $40K. The degree, well that depends on where you go.

"Finally, I ask, since I will graduate high school in 2008, and college, who knows when, will the airline industry have recovered so that it will be a viable job to support me? " That's a crap shoot, no matter what year it is! As far as support, any regional F/O can barely support themselves on new hire pay. Keep this in mind while you acumulate debt in school. Do whatever you can to keep it to a minimum, $60K in student loans is hard to pay off when you don't make $20K/yr for a few years.

Since you are in the USA, go to this site (PPRUNE is predominantly European) -

http://www.jetcareers.com

You can also visit my pilot FAQ & careers site in my profile for info. Good luck.


User currently offlineGnomon From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4436 times:

I second Av8trxx's post about getting a good bachelor's degree in anything OTHER THAN aviation. When I left a CMEI program last year for financial reasons, I thanked God I had a B.A. from a very good school to fall back on.

My recommendation: Put aviation on the backburner while you get a four-year degree, maybe at your state university, where a good degree doesn't cost an arm and both legs. Major in something useful like business or an engineering discipline (or a liberal arts major, like I did). Get your PPL, etc., from a local flight school. THEN do what you need to do to get on with an airline.

All my life, I thought I wanted to be an airline pilot, too. But strange, unforseeable things will happen. It's best to cover all your bases.


User currently offlineORDflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

Gnomon summarized my feelings as well!
It's impossible to predict what the future holds for the industry, but the best bet is to have a backup career. Up until last year I was majoring in aviation, but I kept hearing so many stories about pilots who were let go or furloughed without any backup job prospects. I finally decided that I needed to get a good bachelors degree in another field, and I'm on my way to a degree in business while my flight training (currently working in instrument) is being done on the side as I find time and money for it. Being a commercial pilot is still my ultimate goal, but I realize that it is still a way off in the distance and I need to be able to make a living if my dream job doesn't work out.
You will hear a lot of pro and con arguments for going to an "aviation university" but like Av8trxx I reccomend doing a few years at a community college (you will save a TON of $$ that can pay for your PPL at least) before transferring to a 4 year school to finish your degree and getting flight ratings on the side from an FBO or getting them after your degree by going to a flight academy.


User currently offlineCaptainTim From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

i'm a high school student as well graduating in 2006. i am planning to apply to Embry Riddle in Arizona or Florida, Purdue University Indiana and Ohio State
University

these universities all have a oncampus airport and have a fleet themselves. they also have a degree that majros in creating students into pilots where graduates will hold a commercial degree (minimum) they are quite costly of around $40,000 a year. but i think it might be worth it as you would graduate with about 200-300 hours.

check it out! they are respected universities

tim



Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
User currently offlineAv8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

"they also have a degree that majros in creating students into pilots where graduates will hold a commercial degree (minimum) they are quite costly of around $40,000 a year. but i think it might be worth it as you would graduate with about 200-300 hours. "

True, ERAU is a highly respected name as an aviation university. However, the value of going there in the end is up for debate by many. Commercial degree? How about a 4 year degree with a commercial license. Worth it to graduate with a paltry 200-300 hours? Questionable. One could spend $40K, the cost of 12 months at ERAU (as you quote it) and get all their ratings and get the same amount of flight time in 18-24 months. A recent new hire at my airline attended ERAU. They said if they had to do it all over again, they would not. It was too expensive and they did not have enough flight time to get hired anywhere. They had to instruct or do some other job to build time just like everyone else who attended other, less expensive, schools after graduation. Since it appears you are from Honk Kong, perhaps you will get something else out of it. For those looking for a career in the USA, attending ERAU is much like getting a designer degree. Yes, the quality is very good but you are paying for the name. One could get the same quality elsewhere for less. Some have rich parents or scholarships to pay for a big name school aviation degree. That's great. If you do not, seriously take what their PR dept says with a grain of salt.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

ERAU is a good school but it's hardly the only way to go. You can get every bit as a good education at the local FBO for a fraction of ERAU will cost you. Plus if you go to a regular state school, you can get a degree in something other than aviation as a fallback. Look at it this way, if you get a degree in aviation science(professional pilot), the only thing you are qualified to be is a professional pilot. If the industry takes a dump again, you're could be out on the streets with a useless degree. And in reality, being from ERAU likely won't get you any farther ahead than your FBO counterparts in the hiring process.

There's really no magic bullet in the airline industry but networking is key. Once you start training, wherever that may be, network your butt off. You never know what it may get you somewhere down the line.

-77



PHX based
User currently offlineKDTWFlyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 825 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4365 times:

Yeah, definitely go to a community college... I'm attending Oakland CC here about 30 miles N of DTW and the cost savings im experiencing will allow me to start training soon.


NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
User currently offlineMm320cap From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 227 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

I'd like to defend ERAU for a second here if I might. It IS a lot of money. I think these days you are looking at about $100,000 for the full boat school and flying. However, if you compare that to some of the more expensive liberal arts colleges, it is all relative. I don't know what type of programs or internships ERAU offers anymore - when I was there, they were significant, and very valuable.

One thing that you will get at ERAU, and I'm assuming at other aviation programs at various Universities, is a different type of education. For example, one of my classes at Riddle was Electronic Nav and Flight Control Systems. Basically you learned about the FMC of a B767. Guess what? When I went to school at United on the 737-300, it was a total snap. (The FMC is very similar to the B767). There were many in my class that had a really hard time getting through the school. Not because they weren't good pilots (most flew F16's), but because they had never seen this type of stuff before. I made a mental note about how valuable my education was when it came time to really learn how to fly a large jet.

It is a cyclical industry, and I'm sure it will come back, but I have to be brutally honest. The job is changing FAST, and not for the better. The days of slogging through the regionals just hoping to make it to the majors are pretty much gone. I'd say that my working conditions at United are worse than most of the regionals, and the pay is not much better. In some cases, it's worse. Retirement? Gone. It's a tough, tough business. The people that don't fly for a living that will respond to this post by calling me underworked and overpaid; they haven't walked in my shoes. I still love the job, but it is a very tough career. Just be realistic with yourself about what you want out of it. If you still think it's for you, have fun, and WORK HARD. The better you do in college, the more opportunities you will have.


User currently offlineIlsapproach From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4335 times:

How about this school........................Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines....................

the cheapest and what the hell can't make it as a pilot you always got money for school.


User currently offlineCaptainTim From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

Av8trxx yaeh i am from Hong Kong and i found that flying HKG itself just to get around 200-300 hours will cost more than USD$75,000 and thats only flying at a local FBO in HKG... so flying at ERAU/Purdue/OSU could be a better choice for me.. graduating with a degree

i do hope the aviation industry does turn around to a more positive future....

tim



Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4272 times:


Please refer to this website:
http://jetcareers.com

Several people are attending EARU or have attended in the past....



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Well my plan is to become an Airforce Cargo pilot for the C5 or C17, that would get me all that training to become a pilot for free. After I were to serve those 5years or so of service, then I want to become a Commercial pilot for United or Lufthansa or possibly Virgin. I want to fly the A380 or 744 those are my goals in life.

User currently offlineFlymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7005 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Dont have much time since I am in school right now. I am in the same shoes as you I graduate high School in 2007. I hope to start PPL trainning soon and go to college like Purdue UND to gain hours and ratings. Than I will become a CFI and hopefully do some charter flying for a FBO one day and apply for a regional. It helps to know people in the industry too. Or if I dont get enough rating in college I hope to join Tab Express or DCA ATP flight school something like that.

Wdleiser: As for you. I think it is 8 or 10 years of service now in the Air Force. And you dont have complete control on what planes you fly in the Air Force. But you have somewhat of a say I think. But I would love to do that to. Fly an E-3 or C5 or C17. That would be great. But unless you have dual citizentship you cant fly for an European Airline like Virgin or LU. If you can you will still need to convert all your licenses to European licenses. But getting a job in Europe is easier after you get all the Euro ratings and licenses.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineAv8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4151 times:

"I'd like to defend ERAU for a second here if I might. It IS a lot of money. I think these days you are looking at about $100,000 for the full boat school and flying. One thing that you will get at ERAU...is a different type of education."

I too agree that they have a different, and often more interesting, curriculum. That is another reason why many chose to go to an aviation U., they want classes they are interested in taking. I was no exception. I wanted classes about my favorite subject- airplanes! That's why I went there. However, I chose the more affordable route by doing their Extended Campus Program after going to a junior college and did all my ratings on the side. Still got my ERAU degree yet I paid a third less money than anyone who went to campus for my education & ratings. Starting this career with zero debt sure does make live more livable on this terrible pay. In this day & age, I wouldn't recommend campus, but the Extended program is a great value.


User currently offlineJalto27R From United States of America, joined May 2004, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

I really appreciate all the responses. The one thing I don't know about is a CC, as my family has a heritage of attending lavish colleges and me doing it may not be to their approval. For awhile I was into the AF, but the problem is that you come out at age 30 and have to start at the bottom of the ladder. If anyone knows any good flight schools in the Delaware Valley, let me know. Yet again, I greatly appreciate the advice.

Michael


User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4116 times:

This is all I can say... This new program will speak for itself.

http://www.erau.edu/capt/



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlineJalto27R From United States of America, joined May 2004, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

From what I have heard, ERAU can be a b*tch. This is due to the volume of students vs. the amount of aircraft and trainors available to make this course a success. Plus, the school costs a fortune.

User currently offlineAv8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4098 times:

"This is all I can say... This new program will speak for itself."
http://www.erau.edu/capt

Apparently is it, and NOT in a good way......

"UPDATE-- Dec 8, 2004 Depositions for lawsuit against ERAU CAPT Program begin in late Jan. Here we are 17 months in to the CAPT program and they have only produced 8 grads and 0 pilot jobs. CAPT is failing its students. CAPT claims on its website under Purpose Specific Training that quote: "CAPT graduates are ready for the real world of the airlines immediately upon graduation. As a result, CAPT graduates are sought after by airlines across the country.” Really? Then why are the 8 CAPT grads still unemployed pilots? Even the ones that graduated 6 months ago. The two grads that interviewed CAPT says Quote” Employment paperwork is now being completed for the graduates to begin their training. “ just is not true. Neither grad is working in the aviation industry as a paid pilot today. Integrity is not a value ERAU CAPT possesses."

from http://www.captiscrap.com/

Here's more-
http://jetcareers.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=84693&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=3#Post220909

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=42974&highlight=ERAU+CAPT

At $85K/student they have already taken in four million dollars and have yet to sucessfully place graduates, even though several should have finished last year. Common, who is going to hire a 300 hour pilot just cause they have a type rating??? Without experience to back it up, the type isn't worth diddly squat to an employer.


[Edited 2005-01-05 22:58:11]

User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4045 times:

I didn't know that CAPT is crap?! It's new, and hopefully ERAU will fix these bugs. Those students took the risk as guinea pigs, and ERAU failed. But we'll just have to wait and see in the long run...


Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlinePilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3139 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

Any of those pay to work programs are crap. Many airlines won't consider hiring you knowing that you went this route. Also, if you look at the fine print on many of them the only guarantee you receive is an interview with the flight school, not an airline. Most majors now require a four year degree for consideration and it's almost a necessity to be competitive. There are much less expensive ways to go and you won't be paying some company to work for them. Many FBOs are turning to Part 141 curriculums now for insurance reasons so you can get a very professional, structured training program just like you would at an expensive flight school.

I'm at Parks College, part of St. Louis University. I'm only majoring in Aviation but I know quite a few people that double majored, getting a degree in Aeronautics and Business Management. I'm not going to plug my school on here that much but if you, or anybody on this thread, have questions Email me. There are pros and cons to any program so look at a bunch of them before you decide what's best for you. I looked at five schools, and ended up applying to three. I was accepted at all of these and at the time Parks was right for me.



DMI
User currently offlineCaptainTim From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

Wdleiser i think AF is a terrible choice right now.. i talked to many pilots frequently wehn i fly United in and out of HKG.. since i fly out of HKG, most of the planes are large Heavys.. 747s 777 etc. so these guys are quite old and experienced..... 60% are from the AF

however, they said that when they were in.. they got lots of horus.. but now.. its not~ thers always a CPT with you and you just get to sit around and watch.. and do some frequency tunings etc. you're like a second officer.. also... you have to be enlisted for 8-10 years.. its not worth tthe work i say~ and i don't think u'll get too many hours out of it

(correct me if i'm wrong please)
tim



Gulfstream Planeview Cockpit: "why have hundreds of buttons when a CCD does the same thing and more?"
User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 40
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

A degree from ERAU isn't even close to worth the money you'll end up spending. You'll end up with a degree from an AERONAUTICAL university, which will limit your career choices if you end up outside the aviation field. If you're going to get a degree in professional flight, I'd strongly recommend going to conventional university like UND. Unlike a degree from ERAU, a pro. flight degree from a non-aviation school will take you further in both the aviation and non-aviation fields. Also, you have to remember that ERAU won't provide you with a traditional college atmosphere--a positive or negative, I guess, depending on your opinion. For me, that was a huge negative. Going to a traditional college before transferring to UND, I really liked the college atmosphere--you know, where it's not 85% men, the fraternity I joined, and the friends I made. I'll put this bluntly, if you don't mind spending four years around only aviation nerds (as a girl who went to ERAU in the sorority at UND next to me put it), then ERAU is probably the place for you.

Also, at UND, you could always just live there year round and claim residency in the state thus lowering your tuition payments drastically.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
25 ASE747 : Just go to UND!!! Great school and you get the full life of being in a 4 year college. With other students in different majors. And the way the USA av
26 NW747-400 : DO NOT COME TO EMBRY-RIDDLE!!!!! THIS PLACE SUCKS!!!. Go to UND
27 2H4 : You know, for as much as Riddle costs, you could get a more economical degree, get your ratings through an FBO, buy an inexpensive Aztec or Apache, fl
28 Meister808 : As a UND student, I hate to see people knocking aviation universities, because they definitely offer a program that is hard to beat if you are very in
29 Post contains images Wdleiser : >>>Wdleiser: As for you. I think it is 8 or 10 years of service now in the Air Force. And you dont have complete control on what planes you fly in the
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