Berlinflyer From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7037 times:
The only foreign route they fly to is Beijing right now. Until the mid 90s they used to fly to Berlin as their only western destination. Berlin has the only north korean embassy in a western capital. The flight was not really bookable, it was only for "their" people. They have a small fleet of mainly IL62 and I think Antonov Aircrafts, passengers and cargo. Befor they were named Air Koryo (Koryo is the ancient name of Korea), they were called Choshonminhang (spelling may be not totally correct).
ACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 709 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6941 times:
Why wouldnt Warsaw count as a Western capital? Moscow usually gets counted as a western capital.
It is certainly not an Eastern capital (Beijing, Tokyo, Bangkok) !
Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6226 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6900 times:
Christa:
Gee, looking at the map behind me...it sort of looks like central Europe to me. I mean, Europe does start at the Urals.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
QuestAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6807 times:
Back to the topic....
Doesn't China Eastern fly into Pyongyang as well?
'Do we carry rich people on our flights? Yes, I flew on one this morning and I�m very rich.' - Michael O'Leary
Mia From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 862 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6795 times:
The Korean comrades also have en embassy in Roma.
There is a site of some british guy who is a fan, he has seating arrangements, booking office pictures, etc.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
Christa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6783 times:
Ok fair enough, I respect your opinion, however when it comes to Europe I would place the following countries in certain zones that in a way divide Europe..
BTW, Air Koryo.. have they ever had any Western built aircraft in their fleet?
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6226 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6769 times:
Christia:
Not just my opinion. Also that of the people whose business it is to decide these things...namely, geographers and geologists.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
QuestAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6717 times:
To answer Christa's question... no, I don't think Air Koryo ever operated any Western a/c. Or at least they don't now. According to the Unofficial Air Koryo Website they operate two AN-24-B's, three AN-24-RVs, three AN-24s, one IL-18-D, one IL-18-V, four IL-62-Ms, two TU-134-B3s, three TU-154-Bs, and one TU-154-B2. The cargo fleet consists of three IL-76s.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6637 times:
The IL-62 is a fine looking aircraft - especially in those pre-Euro cheat line liveries. I suspect that Air Koryo is one of the few airlines left that fly it.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15813 posts, RR: 50 Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6614 times:
Don't they fly to Macau? I may have made that up but I swear I saw one at MFM.
On a separate note...I noticed someone posted a seat map of Koryo's aircraft...how can a communist airline have separate seating classes???
Sabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6596 times:
...how can a communist airline have separate seating classes???
I asked myself the same but I think it is/was for the "capitalist customers". The former East German Interflug also had different travel classes (as pictured in an old timetable I have), later I found out that many West Germans flew on Interflug because IF served some destinations which Lufthansa didn't serve. By flying Interflug they could travel to their destination on a German airline, with German speaking F/A's, etc. And those who had the money took advantage of the Business Class which gave the airline (or the state who owned the airline) even more money.
QuestAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6471 times:
In addition to MFM, they fly internationally to PEK, SHE, DLC, TPE, BKK, KIX, KIJ, NGO, SVO, VVO, KHV, SXF, and SOF.
'Do we carry rich people on our flights? Yes, I flew on one this morning and I�m very rich.' - Michael O'Leary
Aviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 16 Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6392 times:
Air Koryo certainly offers both Business Class (2-2 config) and Economy Class (3-3 Config). I am surprised that the question is asked how a communist airline could have separate seating class - there must have been tonnes of examples where airlines from communist countries have such distinction.
In case we forget, Vietnam (whose flag carrier is very progressive and has now joined the rank of B7E7 airlines) is still communist, and so is China, Russia, Mongolia, Cuba etc.
An Air Koryo IL-62 was in BKK on 29 Dec 2004 - the Pyongyang-Macau-Bangkok service was mostly not operated for many months, so I am not sure if this was indeed a resumption or just an ad-hoc charter. Prior to the suspension, the route was only operated when North Korean workers bound for the Middle East receive their visa approvals.
Flights from Pyongyang to Vladivostok, Khabarovsk, Shenyang and Beijing were deemed to be the main routes (according to Air Koryo officials in Sep 2003). Since the break-up of the Iron Curtain, traffic from communist European countries have evapourated.
My personal experience on Air Koryo (flying Biz class one way and Economy class the other - a conscious choice) was positive. Service wasn't as sophisticated as on other modern Asian airlines, but it certainly wasn't bad at all. Food was merely adequate and while the seats were not embellished with modern gizmos, there were fairly comfortable. The cabin does have a nostalgic feel to it. And the IL-62M was pristinely maintained, both inside and outside.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15813 posts, RR: 50 Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6327 times:
"In case we forget, Vietnam (whose flag carrier is very progressive and has now joined the rank of B7E7 airlines) is still communist, and so is China, Russia, Mongolia, Cuba etc."
I haven't forgotten, which is why I wonder how a "classless society" can justify having different classes on an airplane?
Aviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 16 Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6303 times:
I haven't forgotten, which is why I wonder how a "classless society" can justify having different classes on an airplane?
So do you then also ask how Vietnam Airlines, Air China, China Southern Airlines, China Eastern Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, Aeroflot Russian Airlines, MIAT Mongolian Airlines etc could "justify" having a Business Class cabin on their planes? No agenda here except that if one questions the validity of having business class on an airline from one communist country, one should then also do the same for other airlines from other communist countries (regardless whether they operate Boeings, Airbuses, Tupolevs, Antonovs etc).
On my flight on Air Koryo, I could see that passengers in the biz class cabin were both Koreans and foreigners, Westerners and Easterners.
Afay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6303 times:
Ummmmm, the USSR ceased to exist awhile ago...but anyway, it is all about hard currency, which is why they have different classes. Being a communist doesn't automatically mean one isn't a hypocrite as well! Anyway, JS doesn't regularly serve most of the aforementioned destinations as Carpethead has mentioned. Only charters and governmental flights....
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
25 QuestAir: For travelling into North Korea, I read somewhere that you can possibly get a visa from the embassy in Beijing... unless you are from the U.S. or Sout
26 Swissgabe: QuestAir You only get visas if you have booked a group tour in the DPRK. It isn't more complicated than obtaining a visa for a country such as India o
27 MD11Engineer: Years ago during my apprenticeship in SXF, an Air Koryo crew once helped me out of a predicament: During nightshift, my boss wanted me to drive out on
28 Swissgabe: Good to know that there are also nice people in the DPRK
29 QuestAir: Swissgabe, I agree. Not everyone in the DPRK is like Kim Jong Il!
30 Ramme: Christa: - The eastern part of Turkey is part of Asia, not Europe. - Europe ends at the Ural, not at the border of Russia. - Albania is certainly part
31 MaverickM11: "So do you then also ask how Vietnam Airlines, Air China, China Southern Airlines, China Eastern Airlines, Shanghai Airlines, Aeroflot Russian Airline
32 BA: In case we forget, Vietnam (whose flag carrier is very progressive and has now joined the rank of B7E7 airlines) is still communist, and so is China,
33 N328KF: For that matter, neither is Russia. Russia may be leaning towards authoritarianism, but it's certainly not Communist right now.
34 BA: Correct, Russia ceased to be communist after the fall of the Soviet Union. The only communist nations in the world currently are China, Cuba, North Ko
35 Swissgabe: Places with DPRK Embassies: Switzerland (2, one for the UN in Geneva and one in Muri near Bern) Germany Austria China Indonesia Singapore Egypt Austra
36 Cedarjet: Speaking of class warfare on commie airlines, Aeroflot even had seperate first and economy sections on the Tu144! Even Concorde, the ultimate capitali
37 LHSTR: Why do they have 2 classes? In Germany there is a saying. Alle sind gleich, nur manche sind gleicher. which roughly translates to Everybody is equal,
38 Yyz717: To answer Christa's question... no, I don't think Air Koryo ever operated any Western a/c. Correct. However, when the CAAC bought 35 Tridents from BAe
39 N328KF: LHSTR: Yes. In English, the phrase is "Everybody is equal, but some are more equal than others." It was made popular in George Orwell's Animal Farm. (
40 QuestAir: N328KF, I am familiar with that phrase, having read the book last year in school! Isn't there some type of DPRK consulate in New York City? It would b
41 N328KF: The U.S. and DPRK do not have diplomatic relations.
42 QuestAir: Oh. I had read that in some travel guide (it may have been a slightly older one).
43 N328KF: Old? Must have been from before 1950, because the U.S. and DPRK have been at a state of war since then.
44 QuestAir: I'll try to find it, but it said that DPRK officials at that consulate or building could not go beyond 25 yards or something like that away from the b
45 N328KF: They might have some sort of office there for their UN staff, but whatever it is, it cannot be an embassy or consulate because of how the rules of dip
46 Targowski: the DPRK and the USA don't have diplomatic relations, but the DPRK does have a UN mission in new york. Remember, the UN grounds on the upper east side
47 Airbus Lover: It seems to me that when 'Communist' is mentioned everyone jumps to the conclusion of Marxist-influenced or Stalinist communism. While China and Vietn
48 A300: The DPRK UN Mission was acting as a de facto consulate, at least in the 1990s. That's why the guide book may have mentioned it as a source for visas.
49 Swissgabe: QuestAir I already have seen DPRK officials quite far away from their Embassy ... A300 They normally find every year a reason for mass-games. I would
50 Airevents: I flew with Air Koryo last week on a vacation trip to, yes, North Korea. It was a very interesting experience, of course it is a very bizarre country
51 QuestAir: Airevents, I'd like to go, but I think my nationality prevents me from doing so. And flying Air Koryo is part of the vacation, right?
52 JRadier: Definately interested, could you keep me updated?
53 A300: Airevents, I am interested too. Could you let us know more?
54 Airevents: Yes, no problem. Just drop me a line at my e-mail address and I will let you know the details. airevents@gmx.net Cheers, Sebastian
55 Swissgabe: Sebastian, does the trip include PEK-FNJ vv or other routings as well? I would love to fly on JS TU3 as well. Best would be SHE-FNJ. I'm interested in
56 Airevents: It usually will be IL62 from Beijing and the same on the way back. But you can e.g. stay a day longer and fly back to Shenyang on the Tu134 or to Vlad
57 Swissgabe: The only reason to go to the DPRK in a big group would be to get a domestic flight as they are not available to book as an individual tourist.
58 Airevents: Well, the only reason to go there in a group is that you can´t go there otherwise. Individual tourists usually don´t get a visa for the DPRK.
59 Swissgabe: Well, you can go there on "individual" basis but of course you will have your guide with you all the time. So let's speak of a group including one per
60 Airevents: That is true of course, but I think travelling there all by myself with that crazy guide I would kill myself within a day. A group is much more fun to
61 Swissgabe: You have a point. I was lucky enough to have a companion with me and on the way we met another guy from the UK, he was there on it's own. He was quite
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 366 posts, 
From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 94 posts, 
From Poland, joined Mar 2000, 432 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, 
From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 658 posts, 
From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1453 posts, 
From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2779 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5265 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
