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Boeing 777 Orders For 2004 & 2005  
User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9964 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

I posted a couple of threads last year and it is quite interesting to see how the final order book looks for 2004 compared to what was expected at the start of the year. Boeing have updated their website and final sales were 42 which was as follows:

4 x 772ER AirNZ
2 x 772ER KLM
6 x 772ER UFO (Thai)?
2 x 773A CX
4 x 773ER EK
5 x 773ER Etihad
1 x 773ER UFO
18 x 773ER SQ

I assume the 6 772ER UFO are for Thai and the single 773ER for a leasing company. As much as Boeing didn't get their 200 7E7 by year end they must be pleased with the 777 program for 2004. This saw it's best sales year since 2000, EIS has seen the 773ER exceed expectations, Production began on the 772LR, the 772LRF program was launched and the 500th 777 delivered.

So I thought I'd ask what's ahead in 2005 for the 777? 772LR first flight. But what orders can we expect? EIS has stoked good interest in the 773ER and here are who I feel may order the 777 this year.

EK, They have 9 options on 773ER and appear to be going to exercise some
QF, They have an RFP out but the competition will be fierce!
LH Cargo and the 772LRF though decision could be some time away...
Cargolux may order the 772LRF
AM, This may be via a lessor
China Airlines? A346 rumours so maybe another fierce competition in play

Boeing today announced that deliveries will increase in 2005 and 2006 so who is likely to order the 777 this year? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

Regards

PANAM_DC10

P.S Sorry this is mainly a question about the 777 series so in the interests of fairness Airbus has booked 43 firm A330 & A340 series so far for 2004. There are another 23 "open" orders yet to be booked ie 13 A346 for VS. If anyone would like the full breakdown look at the list that Teahan kept updated here
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1853743


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9858 times:

and the single 773ER for a leasing company

...for ILFC on behalf of Air France.




772LR first flight. But what orders can we expect?

SQ ordering the 772LR is pretty much a question of "when" instead of "if".

EK will also be watching its flight tests quite closely.


User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9806 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Thanks ConcordeBoy

SQ ordering the 772LR is pretty much a question of "when" instead of "if"

Yes, given their response to the 773ER EIS, i'ts a good chance.

EK will also be watching its flight tests quite closely.

What about EK and further 773ER orders. Ever since Farnborough there have been rumours of a larger direct order from Boeing. More than the 9 options. Any further talk of this?

Also, will the 772LR be exhibited at the Paris Airshow this year?

Regards

PANAM_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9759 times:

It would be stunning if SQ were to not order the B777-200LR. My guess is 5 orders plus 5 options, but more is possible. Do they need them only for North America or do they need the extra cargo lift elsewhere e.g. to Europe?

User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9705 times:

I know that EK has leased 26 777-300ERs right ? In addition to the 26, they have purchased more 773ERs , how many did they order, Well they replace the current RR trent 777-300 with these new beauties ?


Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9678 times:

Also, will the 772LR be exhibited at the Paris Airshow this year?

Dunno, though at this point, I see no reason why on Earth it wouldn't be.




they have purchased more 773ERs , how many did they order

4



Well they replace the current RR trent 777-300 with these new beauties ?

In terms of fleetwide capacity, they'll immediately replace the A343s.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 9592 times:

In terms of fleetwide capacity, they'll immediately replace the A343s.

I would have thought that was a no-brainer too. The A343 is a complete cuckoo in the EK nest as it has no engine commonality to the rest of their operation.

Do you have any idea how long Boeing leased them to EK for? I seem to recall it was a 5 year deal tops....tied to 777 delivery schedules


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9545 times:

AM, This may be via a lessor

We need to hear something from AM sooner or later! According to some info I have on my hands AM will take delivery of their first 777 on February of 2006. So I'm sure this month or at the beggining of February we will know something extra about this issue! I know they're considering 3 orders + 2 options for B772ER.

Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6570 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9387 times:

My guesses are:

CX for 777-300ER
QF for 777-300ER and 777-200LR (hoping....will be fierce)
AM for 777-200ER via ILFC
QR for 777-200LR
AI for 777-300 and 777-200LR
KU for 777-200LR
CA for 777-200ER and possibly 777-300ER
BR for 777-200F
SQ for 777-200LR

I think LH Cargo will wait but will eventually order the 777-200F.

Here's hoping for another great year! I guess I would be extremely happy if all of the above actually happened but I think they are all possible.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9371 times:

i know el al is/was looking to lease a 5th 777.
though i think they gave up, and are now into leasing a 767 - 300  Sad. I hope atleast this one will have PTV's.

I wonder if EL AL will look into ordering 777LRF instead of 744F. They has been talks for years, that it is time they replace their AGING 747's.


User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9321 times:

I love both the 777s and the A345/A346 . Hard choices but this is my guess

As for my predictions , among the lists:
BR , SQ and LH will go for the 772LRF.
SQ: 772LR
QF i think more likely they will go for the 773ER , i rule out the 772LR.
AI: Will place more orders for 772ER and perhaps 773
KU: They will go for A346
CA: A346 most likely
MH: 773ER



Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9232 times:

QF i think more likely they will go for the 773ER , i rule out the 772LR

If Boeing milks more miles from the 777-200LR, and if it could do LHR-SYD, SYD-LHR, there's no reason why Qantas won't buy the 777 sooner or later.


BR , SQ and LH will go for the 772LRF
I thought the BR 772LRF was already made?? Which was why they delayed their deliveries??. About SQC, my thoughs exactly. Though they do have a new cargo fleet compared to many others, I wonder whether they'll go anything smaller than the 747 in terms of longe-range flights.

AI: Will place more orders for 772ER and perhaps 773
AI have never placed any direct orders for any 777. I'm guessing they're giving it a shot right now, but there's still alot of bumps on the 777's roads in Air India, all due to political factors.

MH: 773ER
Given how much sucess the 777 has provided for MH, it is highly likely.

QR for 777-200LR
Qatar Airways has yet to order a single Boeing aircraft, and I believe the 7E7-9 has a better chance right now than the 777-200LR, unless of course Boeing does not move up the production of the -9.



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8994 times:

Do you have any idea how long Boeing leased them to EK for? I seem to recall it was a 5 year deal tops....

Nope. They expire at the 9th year.




QF i think more likely they will go for the 773ER , i rule out the 772LR.

Considering their geographical position and (to a far lesser extent) the likelihood that the A388 will not (at least initially) live up to its promised specs.... if QF were to select the 773ER, it'd only be a matter of time before they secured the 772LR as well.



Qatar Airways has yet to order a single Boeing aircraft, and I believe the 7E7-9 has a better chance right now than the 777-200LR, unless of course Boeing does not move up the production of the -9

Both before and after the advent of the 7E7 as well as their latest A340 order, al-Baker is quoted as saying that the 772LR is a plane Qatar would "like to have in our fleet", but basically on the contingency that they get an overwhelmingly good deal from Boeing.


User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7997 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Thanks for all the responses everyone, much appreciated.

The777Man

Have you heard any more on a potential order from Libya? They apparently expressed an interest late last year in response to the sanctions being lifted.

Regards

PANAM_DC10




Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineJunior1970 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7292 times:

SQ is definitely waiting for the 772LR to be ready.
The A345 was just a temporary solution. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I always wondered why SQ, with a good heart towards boeing, would fly with airbus, although I know they had some A310's in their fleet some years ago. (I flew one DPS-SIN in 1996 and didn't like the plane to good...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy )


User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7131 times:

LH Cargo won`t buy any B777LRF in 2005(other than I expected and hoped for). They are pretty happy with the MD11 and said they will start to think about new aircraft around 2007.


Regards


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6980 times:

SQ bought the A340-500 because it could do the job at a profit and there were no alternatives available at the time. It was not a mistake. The B777-200LR will do the job better at a higher profit, so SQ is expected to replace their A340-500s with B777-200LRs.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6847 times:

...and thus make it SQ-F.U.#2 to the A340  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 6478 times:

I wonder what will happen to some of the Boeing fans if SQ exercised the options to buy 5 more A345s. I will love to see their faces. Big grin


Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6570 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6374 times:

PANAM_DC10:

Good point I forgot about Libyan Arab (LN)! I think that they may place an order but perhaps they will pick up the 3 ex-UA non-ER 777s that are still stored ? Unless they plan a huge expansion of their network, they really don't need any ER aircraft.

Another likely candidate I forgot is TAAG Angola (DT) that announced an interest in the 777 last year. I think they might order two or three 777-200ER.

Any predictions, ConcordeBoy ?

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

...the usuals:

SQ for 772LR
EK for 772LR (despite their initial rejection)
CO may take up their final 772ER option if they get China, but iffy
KQ might order a single additional 772ER, particularly if their MIA plans come to fruition
QR/EY may select the 772LR as well, in addition to their former A340 orders.
ILFC/GECAS may order any given set of models, as they're running low, but interest still abounds


--dont see any orders for the A-market birds, except perhaps very small add-ons here or there.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6570 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6350 times:

Thanks for your insight, ConcordeBoy!

I don't really see any direct orders for non-ERs either except add ons. I meant to write the I think AI will get 777-300ER and not -300. Perhaps they will also get the -200ER and LR in a direct order ?

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

Perhaps they will also get the -200ER and LR in a direct order?

I've learned never to hold my breath waiting for that airline to do anything worthwhile... just be pleasantly surprised  Big grin


User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6124 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

The777Man

Thank you, I clean forgot about TAAG and I would agree that we may see 2-3 772ER ordered by them. As for CX is there further talk about a potential 773ER order from them? Early last year the rumours were very strong and the debate on this forum was quite robust though since then they seem to be taking more used 744s so I'm not too sure on them.

ConcordeBoy

Thanks again for your answers; I'll ask one more question if I may.....

ILFC/GECAS may order any given set of models, as they're running low, but interest still abounds

Agree. Neither Lessor has any outstanding 773ER available for lease and as you've already pointed out the single 773ER UFO was for AF. ILFC has only 3-4 772s on order that aren't placed. I feel we could see both ILFC & GECAS place orders this year.

This leads me to ask about the GECAS LoI for 8 772LR is there any chance that we may see this converted to a firm order? Last year it looked like GECAS were going to convert to firm but I think AI was one of the airlines they were pitching to and they're still deciding what to order/lease, I assume the other carrier may still retain an interest, no?

Also, there were rumours on both this forum and Yahoo order group that AF were interested in another 5 773ER, has anyone heard anymore on this?

Regards

PANAM_DC10







Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6570 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

PANAM_DC10:

I haven't heard anything more about the CX order but I heard that they are ready to expand again and I think that they will order 777-300ER.

Haven't heard anything more on AF getting any more 777-300ER other than rumors.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
25 ConcordeBoy : Last year it looked like GECAS were going to convert to firm but I think AI was one of the airlines they were pitching to and they're still deciding w
26 Hamlet69 : Don't have much time, but will introduce 3 airlines not talked about yet, which may lead into more discussion: Jet Airways Hainan Airlines UPS Regards
27 ConcordeBoy : ...what about HMY-- though I know they've talked about 767 and A330 just as much, at one point they were gung-ho 777?
28 QFA001 : Well they replace the current RR trent 777-300 with these new beauties ? In terms of fleetwide capacity, they'll immediately replace the A343s. No, th
29 Dalecary : And I'll throw another one into the ring: AC. They seem to be completely reevaluating their WB fleet at the present. The 7E7/350 for 767 seems quite l
30 ConcordeBoy : No, they won't. The A343s are on 9-yr leases, so will be around until 2013. All the B773ERs, including those ordered last year, will be delivered by e
31 Milan320 : AC has at times seemed to show genuine interest in the 777... but considering their financial position as well as already being customers for A345 and
32 Post contains images QFA001 : The A343s were ordered specifically as a stopgap until 773ER deliveries. No one said they'd be gone the moment those aircraft arrived. I didn't realis
33 The777Man : I agree with Hamlet69 that UPS could very welll place orders for the 777-200F sometime this year. I find it less likely for Hainan (HU) and Jet Airway
34 ConcordeBoy : SQ was offered the -100X twice. Once, in 1995-96. Hence my statement "beforehand", as that was the only incident relevant to this discussion It was af
35 NightFlier : The 777 is a good aircraft and I think it has proved itself to be good. That is what makes me think about Boeings proposal to build the 7E7, if they t
36 ConcordeBoy : ideas for the internal aspects of the plane ...such as?
37 DfwRevolution : That is what makes me think about Boeings proposal to build the 7E7, if they took the ideas for the internal aspects of the plane and implemented them
38 Post contains images NightFlier : Im sure most of us have seen the proposed ideas for the internal layout for the 7E7. Why not take those ideas and incorporate them into the more new m
39 QFA001 : SQ was offered the -100X twice. Once, in 1995-96. Hence my statement "beforehand", as that was the only incident relevant to this discussion Bzzzt. It
40 Post contains images NightFlier : Ok it was a bad idea DfwRevoltion but it was just an idea.
41 Hamlet69 : Okay, now I have more time, and since I've been asked by Lars to comment here, I will happily do so. "I assume the 6 772ER UFO are for Thai and the si
42 QFA001 : EK is looking at the 7E7/A350 to replace the A332s, not the 773ER. Perhaps, perhaps. Yet, EK intends to dispose of its first A332s prior to the A350 o
43 The777Man : Thanks Hamlet69 for your reply and your insight! The777Man
44 Post contains images JMO-777 : That are really some nice insights, Hamlet69! I hope that LHC orders the 777F, so that there are some 777s based in Germany The 777F will also fit in
45 Zvezda : I don't see the B777 being updated with B7E7 technologies. Boeing would do just as well to develop a new airplane from a clean sheet of paper. It woul
46 Post contains links PANAM_DC10 : Hamlet69 Sorry I'm a little late but I too thank you for an excellent summary. I think that one thing is for sure after all the responses for this thr
47 Hamlet69 : First, I'd like to thank everyone for the kind comments, and for such a decent thread (unusual here at A.net). Second, I noticed there are a couple ai
48 Hirnie : Thanks for the interesting insights Hamlet! Regarding Alitalia I can only say that if they want to order more B777 or any other aircraft they will do.
49 The777Man : Thanks for your insight again, Hamlet69! I agree with that VN is a very likely candidate for the 777-200LR and I hope that Etiophian Airlines firms up
50 ConcordeBoy : agree with that VN is a very likely candidate for the 777-200LR Perhaps. It'd certainly be a charm for SGN-California nonstop, but if they want to wa
51 Carpethead : JL & NH may add more 773ERs as their 744s are going to be converted to freighters. Specifically, between 4 to 6 for each carrier with deliveries betwe
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