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EU & US Agree To Talks On Airbus-Boeing Spat  
User currently offlineJMV From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4015 times:

According to a just published article in the Wall Street Journal, the EU and US agreed to 3 months of talks regarding commercial aircraft subsidies, rather than pursue the matter through the WTO.

According to the article, "The two sides also agreed to refrain from giving new aid -- for large civil-aircraft development or production -- to Airbus and Boeing during the talks."

Will these developments impact the A350 and/or the B7E7? My guess would be the A350 would be affected more, but that is only a guess on my part.

Here is a link to the same story on Yahoo for those who don't have a subscription to the WSJ.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050111/eu_us_trade_9.html

[Edited 2005-01-11 16:19:00]


Google begins where my brain ends! ©
10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3977 times:

Seeing the strenght of Boeing current portfolio:

717 : weak, profitable ?
737 : selling but for how long, not growing, no big margins..
747 : how many sold in last few years?
757 : stopped
767 : current production rate 1 aircraft per two months
777 : succesfull, but for how long ? who will buy another 400 in the next 7 years ? dunno..

7e7 : needs large investments 2004-2009 before any return on investment..
737 replacement : needs large investment 2006-2010..
747 adv : needs substantial investments 2006-2009

I don't think the US lobby will be steering for strict government support restrictions. Boeing will need government support badly in the 2005-2010 period, more then Airbus..



User currently offlineJMV From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3954 times:

Well, we may find out in the coming three months who really gets government subsidies for their commercial aircraft operations. Certainly many on this forum can't agree on whether or not US government procurement from Boeing for defense and space constitutes a subsidy, just as many don't believe non-binding loans from various European governments qualifies as a subsidy.

Considering the article states that both the EU and US will refrain from giving new aid while talks are underway, I again ask, and a bit more specifically, in the short term who is impacted more, Airbus or Boeing?



Google begins where my brain ends! ©
User currently offlineNyc777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5737 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

I don't think the US lobby will be steering for strict government support restrictions. Boeing will need government support badly in the 2005-2010 period, more then Airbus..

Dude,
The US govt does not supply any form of monetary aid whatsoever to the development and/or manufacture of commercial aircraft to any corporate entity. Boeing has developed it's aircraft from in house sources. They have no need for a govt. hand out.



That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3914 times:

In the short term A is impacted most as it stops government funding for the 350 program and probably additional funds for the 380 program. Long term I think A will be in pretty good shape, though, as they move to a position of financing their new aircraft development. It is going to put pressure on how efficiently they develop new planes.

I have no doubt that the 350 will go forward and that A will adapt very easily to a lack of subsidies. The company is simply too strong not to do well. Government funds will be put to good use in other areas, like funding medical research.

I don't thing that Boeing will have any significant advantage. Short term pricing is already set and the 380 is just about ready to fly. Long term, both companies have significant technical knowledge that will keep them competitive. In terms of R&D investment, that is a management decision and I think both companies will be aggressive in order to remain competitive.

Both companies will continue to maximize the bidding wars for locating future plants. This type of local support will continue as it is certainly not limited to aircraft manufacturers.


User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3910 times:


The US govt does not supply any form of monetary aid whatsoever to the development and/or manufacture of commercial aircraft to any corporate entity.

 Sleepy

Nyc777, please don't limit yourself to the "We tell our Customers what they want to Hear" media..

The Bush administration in October charged that Toulouse, France-based Airbus has received more than $15 billion in loans since 1967. The EU alleges that Boeing has gotten $23 billion in unfair support in the form of state-level tax breaks, military research and Japanese aid to suppliers since 1992.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000006&sid=an5rKn0GUnl0&refer=home


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8239 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

Nothing will change. They both get government aid which is exactly why none of them want to take this issue to the WTO. It's business as usual. Neither A or B will be affect by it. I'm surprised people still bother talking about it. Get over it.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

737 : selling but for how long

...same boat for the older (relative to the relevant NG) A32x



777 : succesfull, but for how long ?

Long as it continues to absolutely brutalize its competitor...



who will buy another 400 in the next 7 years ? dunno..

who cares, unlike a certain Airbus, at least it's sold actually sold over 400... or 300 for that matter  Laugh out loud


7e7 : needs large investments 2004-2009 before any return on investment

...point being?



737 replacement : needs large investment 2006-2010..

Add five years to both those numbers



747 adv : needs substantial investments 2006-2009

there's little evidence that Boeing truly intends to even launch such a contraption at this point...


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3844 times:

>"Boeing truly intends to even launch such a contraption at this point...""<

So what... Don't you like that idea?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

.same boat for the older (relative to the relevant NG) A32x
not correct, major parts of the 737 are inherited from 707, 727 and 731/2 .. the a32x is overall a more modrn aircraft.

.Long as it continues to absolutely brutalize its competitor...
in your dreams  Smile Airbus is steadily selling A340s & the A359 is coming..

.who cares, unlike a certain Airbus, at least it's sold actually sold over 400... or 300 for that matter
who cares that Boeing 777s are sold ?! you must be kidding  Big grin

point being?
where to get those bucks ccboy, that´s the point..

Add five years to both those numbers
737 has been selling well sofar, but production is not expanded like the Airbus NB´s and LCC make a different choice lately


there's little evidence that Boeing truly intends to even launch such a contraption at this point...
Well they are saying so..


Airbus is accelerating production to above 460 aircraft per year in 2007. Which Boeing types will match those numbers..


User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1995 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3732 times:
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Nothing is really going to change. Both sides will simply work harder to disguise illegal or otherwise questionable subsidies.


It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
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