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India OKs Bangladesh Pvt Airl To Mumbai, Chennai  
User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1852 times:
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From The Daily Star

"India allows GMG to fly to Chennai, Mumbai"

http://thedailystar.net/2005/01/12/d50112012117.htm

Earlier, Economic Times of India reported that GMG got permission to fly to Delhi

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/980954.cms

One thing the newspapers do not mention that much about are the bi-laterals between India and Bangladesh. The Economic Times article says the rights have been for DAC-CCU-DEL twice a week. This would be in line with the current bi-laterals. The current bi-laterals allow 30 flights by designated airlines from each country.

Bangladeshi airlines have maxed on the agreed upon frequencies: Biman uses 25 frequencies (19 on DAC-CCU, 2 on DAC-DEL, 2 on DAC-BOM and 2 on CGP-CCU) while GMG (Z5) uses 5 frequencies (3 on CGP-CCU and 2 on DAC-CCU). One the other hand, Indian AIrlines (the only Indian operator between India and Bangladesh) operates 3 weekly flights in the CCU-DAC sector. As The Daily Star article notes, Air Sahara may enter the route as well.

Bangladesh and India were reported to be in negotiations for an open skies agreement much like that between India and Sri Lanka. I hope this is the case and this is the first of many flight increases between the neighbors. I also hope that the Bangladeshi government would now allow GMG to fly to BOM, MAA and DEL and not create blockades as it had done previously.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTravellin'man From United States of America, joined May 2001, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1836 times:

Is this within the range of the Dashes, or will it require a new type?


It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1826 times:
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I was surprised to read about DAC-CCU-DEL on the Dashes -- even if it is possible, it sure would be a long flight!!!

I had read that GMG was thinking about adding a Fokker F100 to the fleet for the regional routes (DEL, MAA, CMB, MLE). 2 years ago, when I interviewed the CEO or the airline, he said that the airline was leaning towards the MD-80 or the Boeing 737 with the hopes that they will get ME rights. I guess they have to scale back their hopes. Anyway, F100 is operated by Cosmic Air of Nepal, whose GSA in Bangladesh is GMG. So, perhaps the two can cooperate on the F100.

Best regards,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineCx750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1819 times:

Any reason for IC's lack of presence in DAC? They have consistently over the years reduced Bangladesh service, while other regional destinations have seen quite a bit of expansion.



User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1815 times:
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Biman always managed to get more passengers on the DAC-CCU route -- possibly because of connection to Europe and Asia. When IC started focusing on more profitable routes in the Gulf and SE Asia, it seems like they chose to move capacity from the CCU-DAC route to other points. There was talk of IC going back to 5 flights a week and the possible introduction of flights from DEL, but has not happened.

I am more surprised at the fact that there are no direct flights to Agartala, Gauhati, Shillong from Dhaka. I think both IC and BG (or any Indian or Bangladeshi airline) could profit from these routes using smaller a/c.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineCx750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Maybe we'll see Air Deccan expand into that area, I believe domestic carriers can still fly to SAARC nations without the 5 year operational requirement.

User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1798 times:
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Air Deccan in connecting the Indian Northeast to Bangladesh would be really cool. It's model is one that could work for South Asia well.

I think beyond Dhaka, connection to Chittagong may also be a viable option. If the two governments can work out ease of trade and visa regulations, Chittagong would make a more convenient port of call for goods going to the Northeast than Kolkata -- and this trade could also fuel growth in aviation in the region. Besides, Chittagong being the second largest city also has a growing middle class with disposable income who like to travel.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4766 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

Considering that SAARC includes Bangladesh and with Indian Govt having an open skies policy with SAARC states, doesnt that now dissolve/erase the main features of the India-Bangladesh bilateral flight restrictions of 30 flights per country's airline???

GMG are fools to fly 2 weekly CCU-DAC when BG does it 19 times...total waste of time.

GMG should look at making BOM and DEL 4 weekly nonstop from DAC and DAC-MAA 3 weekly.

Is there demand for CGP-DEL and CGP-BOM (3 weekly B 737s in each direction)???



User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1761 times:
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Behramjee,

I think GMG would fly DAC-CCU daily and even multiple dailies if the Bangladesh government would allow them. The government first stated that an airline must have five years of continued service before giving them the rights to fly overseas.

When GMG met the conditions, the government then said, yes, you can fly overseas but only to Male, Colombo, Chennai from Dhaka and Chiang Mai from Chittagong. Given that TG already flies to Chiang Mai -- I would say that Chittagong-Chiang Mai had little chance of success.

SriLankan had withdrawn from DAC-CMB route after the terrorist attacked at Colombo airport and was not in a hurry to resume flights -- perhaps indicating a thin yield on the route.

GMG again requested that it be allowed to fly to CCU; after dragging its foot for nine months, GMG got the rights to fly from CGP only (3x weekly). The excuse the government used was the 30 slot limitation. Finally the government allowed it to fly DAC-CCU but only twice a week.

If the government had negotiated open skies with India, GMG may have been able to fly daily to CCU and even DEL. I believe there is an unmet demand in DAC-CCU, DAC-BOM, DAC-CCU and to a lesser degree DAC-MAA. I also think that there will be enough demand for CGP-DEL as well. However, the government wants to keep Biman's monopoly, and thus is in no hurry to allow GMG the rights to fly these routes.

Such is the way things work in Bangladesh.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 1744 times:

GMG are fools to fly 2 weekly CCU-DAC when BG does it 19 times...total waste of time.

GMG should look at making BOM and DEL 4 weekly nonstop from DAC and DAC-MAA 3 weekly.


.....I totally agree. This is a typical decision airlines in the subcontinent seem to make. Certain routes both domestic within India and to other SAARC countries are saturated already. Why not open up other markets nonstop between major cities? I was really surprised to see that both Air Sahara and Jet decided to fly MAA-Colombo when Sri Lankan and IC more than had that route covered and the same goes for Delhi-Kathmandu. Certain routes such as Chennai-Singapore have enough daily traffic to warrant several airlines flying it, but most routes within the subcontinent simply don't as of yet.


User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1736 times:
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Kartik,

I think part of it is also that some routes need to be nurtured a bit before they yield the profit.

However, I would think a route like DEL-DAC would have been a daily by now (at one time, TG used to have 4x A300, then a BA 2x B747 -- but now only Biman flies the route with A310 2x weekly.

Also, I would think a B737 / A320 route like DAC-DEL-ISB would do well, maybe 2-3 weekly frequencies. They could call it the "Diplomat" route.

I agree that on some routes, flights seem to be super saturated. CMB-MAA, CMB-MLE, DEL-KTM come to mind. Hey, then again, SriLankan seems to be doing well on the route. Having said that, I am all for competition and am happy that at least on some routes, travelers really do have a good range of choices.

I still find it incredible that to fly between DAC and CMB, the easiest routes are through BKK, KUL or SIN. Up until recently, DAC to KHI was easier to go via DXB. Because there are so few flights between DAC and BOM, some days it's easier to go through DXB or AUH. There are no direct flights between Southern India and Pakistan and Bangladesh. There are no direct flights between LHE and BOM, or ISB to any city in South Asia other than Pakistan. It amazes me that there are usually more seats from most points in South Asia to points in other regions than to a neighboring country.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, a lot of this can be blamed on the governments of South Asia. Here we are giving lip service about "regional cooperation" but most South Asians cannot even travel from one country to another without a trying visa process. The whole idea of regional unity is the free flow of people, ideas, capital. Unfortunately the region has such history of utter animosity that even this basic issue cannot be resolved.

Anyway, I better stop, or this will be the longest post ever on a.net.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineAirbusCanada From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1708 times:

i doubt d81 would be able to fly ccu-bom non stop.
it would not be very comfortable to the passanger.
specially, when the competation is flying 737/310 with ife.
On an article, Gmg CEO said, they will lease f-100 when all the formalities are done for Mumbai, Chennai, Colombo,Katmandu and Male route.



[Edited 2005-01-12 05:04:54]

User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4766 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

GMG shouldnt expect to do too well if it wants to fly F 28s and F 100s on SAARC routes...what it should look into are getting 10-12 year old used B 733s / 734s or cheap MD 80s/90s.

It would be best if used B 733s are gotten so that it can coordinate with BG concerning maintainance of the aircraft as BG too has B 737-300s.

And yes there is a lot of demand for nonstop ISB-DEL + LHE-BOM + ISB-BOM flights but Pakistan is only allowed 12 weekly flights to India by India which see KHI-BOM 5 weekly + KHI-DEL 3 weekly and LHE-DEL 4 weekly.


User currently offlineMrNiji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1681 times:

Biman always managed to get more passengers on the DAC-CCU route -- possibly because of connection to Europe and Asia. When IC started focusing on more profitable routes in the Gulf and SE Asia, it seems like they chose to move capacity from the CCU-DAC route to other points

Hey Wassim, this is not a big surprise to me... realizing the lousy uncomprehensive unsynergic (I will stop the use of further attributes here) point-to-point strategy of India's state-owned careers AI and IC - every other airline in Asia (PK, BG, RA - and especially UL; check the Economic Times of India Print today...) does better

Both airlines strategies are not matched.. IC flies CCU-DAC.. CCU is only a minor hub of IC - AI does fly once a week from BOM to CCU - so no connections... same relevant for flights to Yangoon, or taking the example of TRV for MLE...

Indian state-owned Civil Aviation needs a reform - I doubt privatization to be the key, but something has to happen soon..

Cheers


User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1641 times:
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Behramjee,

I agree that F-28 and F-100 may not be right for GMG...B737s would be good because of BG's experience, but also those of IC, 9W, S2, PK, MH, TG. There are a lot examples around...and it gives GMG room to grow, and in some cases, the range to expand.

MrNiji,

Yes, I figured that IC's CCU-DAC is for mainly O/D traffic. It's funny that airlines like EK, QR, SQ are utilizing both O/D and connecting traffic to do so well with passengers from the Subcontinent, yet, our airlines don't use the same concept.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

As I mentioned in an earlier post, a lot of this can be blamed on the governments of South Asia. Here we are giving lip service about "regional cooperation" but most South Asians cannot even travel from one country to another without a trying visa process. The whole idea of regional unity is the free flow of people, ideas, capital. Unfortunately the region has such history of utter animosity that even this basic issue cannot be resolved.


Thanks for your reply and I agree with you completely on this point. Until there is some freedom of movement, the whole concept of open skies is almost totally worthless.



User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

Yes, I figured that IC's CCU-DAC is for mainly O/D traffic. It's funny that airlines like EK, QR, SQ are utilizing both O/D and connecting traffic to do so well with passengers from the Subcontinent, yet, our airlines don't use the same concept.


Right on! I believe that almost all of Lufthansa's traffic as well to India is connecting traffic. I doubt very few people actually originate travel in Frankfurt or now in Munch (with the new MUC-DEL flight). I have flown LH several times to Chennai originating in Miami and it seems like half the plane from Miami to Frankfurt is connecting on to one of the flights to India. I've heard it is much the same with LH's runs from Atlanta, Houston, Washington, Boston and New York to Frankfurt and on SQ from Los Angeles and San Fransisco to Singapore. I really believe airlines in India must develop some sort of hub and spoke concept with freindlier connecting possibilities to come anywhere close to reaching the potential for Indian air travel. (the same goes for airlines in Pakistan and Bangladesh.)



User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1612 times:
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Kartik,

EK and SQ carry many times more passengers than their respective countries' population. Granted they have to be more aggressive and generate larger markets than their own country can support. However, they have been doing this for a while and the governments of South Asia have just look on in idle.

At least the government of India has began to liberalize its own policies to open up the markets. Pakistan to a degree has done the same. Bangladesh government is far too slow. In this day and age, it's silly to think that the government controlled airline will be able to do all. This is the kind of thinking that has let South Asian airlines to be relegated to second tier rankings, although 2 decades ago, they were in league with the world players (ok, that's my opinion). While other airlines morphed into global players, South Asian airlines remained just that -- South Asian.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineAirbusCanada From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1596 times:

It would be best if used B 733s are gotten so that it can coordinate with BG concerning maintainance of the aircraft as BG too has B 737-300s.

I agree that F-28 and F-100 may not be right for GMG...B737s would be good because of BG's experience, but also those of IC, 9W, S2, PK, MH, TG. There are a lot examples around...and it gives GMG room to grow, and in some cases, the range to expand.

biman returned those 733 (WEt leased)about a year ago and replaced them with F-28. Now they want to buy three 737/320 and three D8/ATR72 to replace those F-28's.

I doubt that biman will co-operate with GMG on any matter. Biman is trying their best to block GMG from flying to any destination. Forget maintance, they wont' even code share on chiggatong-kolkata route. In the eye's of Biman, GMG is an evil corporating takeing their bread and butter.




User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1581 times:
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AirbusCanada,

I agree that Biman will not co-operate with GMG, and why should they? You won't find GMG co-operating with Biman either. However, sometimes, one does not need cooperation from a competition to gain from the experience. One of the reasons why GMG is looking at the F-100 is that there are Biman pilots who have experience on F-28s. This will mean that they may be able to lure Biman pilots if and when they get the F-100. Same can be said for the B737.

Aircraft manufacturers know full well that this familiarity leads to sales in regions. Biman itself said that its choice of the A310 was partly based on the fact that Air India, PIA, Singapore Airlines and Thai had the aircraft in their fleet. One of the reasons why Biman supposedly wants the Dash 8 is because GMG has had success using them.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

While other airlines morphed into global players, South Asian airlines remained just that -- South Asian.


Sadly, this is the case. Air India, if well run could have been a much larger player.


User currently offlineMrNiji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1518 times:

Right on! I believe that almost all of Lufthansa's traffic as well to India is connecting traffic. I doubt very few people actually originate travel in Frankfurt or now in Munch (with the new MUC-DEL flight).

This is LH's strategy, and they are kicking a-- with it.. afaik more than 90 % from BLR-FRA connect in FRA further.. Flights to DEL have a considerable number of o/d pax, mostly German Tourists on a tour 'to see the ferry tales of 1001 night' (i.e. Delhi-Agra-Jaipur...)  Yeah sure I had been one of the very few Indian o/d pax FRA-DEL, although a considerable number of Punjabis stay in FRA (but mostly travelk on AI, since AI's prices cannot be beaten by LH on the o/d)... But exactly, North-America - India is LH's major market..

Regarding the freedom of Movement..I I agree with the comments, but do expect things to change rapidely in 2006...


User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1489 times:
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MrNiji,

What's going to happen in 2006?

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineMrNiji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

What's going to happen in 2006?

Only an assumptiopn from my side... the SAARC Developments are quite promising recently, there have been interesting Sec of STate meetings, discussing these questions..

On the one hand, we agree that things in SA are happening to slowly, on the other hand the subcontinent is deemed to be the area where the most surprises might happen.. economic objectives could literally 'burst' borders, India's ambition tb leader in SA and the others objectives to benefit from economic growth call for something like a common market.. It is a little too positive, what I am writing, but we will be surprised how fast things can move here.. the 2006 is an estimate of mine (I would not be surprised if at this jyears Dhaka meeting the foundations for a roadmap will be laid, keeping in mind the closer coop after the Tsunami crisis)  Big grin

Cheers


User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1007 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1453 times:
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MrNiji,

I hope you are right. I am much more pessimistic about SAARC than you are. Having said that, Myanmar, Bangladesh and India have just signed an agreement to build a gas pipleline from Myanmar to India through Bangladesh. May be this is the first of many positive steps.

I would love to see 9W, S2 in DAC and CGP, and lots more flights within the region.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


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