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Lufthansa..planes Just Sitting Around  
User currently offlineErj145lr From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9630 times:

So last year i was in FRA, we were comming in from IAD, and connecting to Madrid on an A321-100/200. So there was something wrong with our plane. They took us off, abd bussed us to another identical plane just sitting around on the ramp. It obviously had not been used all day cuz it was about 30 degrees in the cabin. My question is why does lufthansa have dozens of planes juat sitting around in FRA. I wish the US airlines would do that. It was so nice to not be dealyed, and to be able to just hop on another vacant plane and make our way to madrid. This just seemed a bit odd to me!

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9525 times:

It seems to me that this is one of the major differences between a quality airline and a LCC.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9504 times:

Every time I've been through Frankfurt in the last several years I've noticed about 5-7 LH planes sitting on the runway of different fleet types. I assumed they were there for maintence, but maybe they are just spares!

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9462 times:

Erj-145:

**Welcome to Europe and quality / on-time carriers**

Micke  Laugh out loud



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9458 times:

Well I don't know about any other US Majors and Other Major US Hubs but in MIA for example AA always has a at least 2 or 3 spare aircraft I have seen it for myself and it has been confirmed to me by AA employees at MIA. Anywhere from a spare 763ER to 772 to A300-600R etc.

Good topic....



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9389 times:

Hey there,

i would definitly not say their planes just sit around the tarmac all day round. Normally they are in the air a whole lot, not more than an hour turn-around. But on the other hand, FRA is their hub. Its not a problem for LH to re-assign one of their planes of the same type to a different destination if they see an airplane is coming in late, and another one just got out of the hangar after some maintenance. But i am sure every airline in the world is capable of doing so, and handles it accordingly...



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9357 times:

What I don't understand, however, is, why LH didn't keep one or two A310 as "backup" planes. They are much cheaper, and while sitting around they don't have operation costs.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineNumberTwelve From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9300 times:

Erj, very simple: FRA is LH's most important airport and sometimes they have a little time to relax  Wink/being sarcastic - kidding. I think it just looks like "hanging around" but they are involved in route network - if you see them at the western part of the airport (Hangar 3 or 5 or totally left), there is maintenance and cargo - also there are planes parked which have longer stay (f.e. Air Namibia, South African and - Number1 in lazy birds in FRA: Qantas 744).



signature censored by admin - so check my profile
User currently offlineCgagn From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9144 times:

Flying past the BA hangers at Heathrow, there are usually 7 or 8 744s parked on the tarmac. Are these just waiting for maintenance, or are they spares. I'm guessing with 50 some 744s in the fleet, they must have a few spares lying around LHR just in case.

C-GAGN



Widebodies flown on: A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER
User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9074 times:

US legacy or LCC do not have spares lying around waiting to be used. It is inefficient in the US business mindset. The cannot afford to have non-revenue producing aircraft sitting around; idle airplanes don't make you money.
I wish the would at least have 1 or 2 at each hub though.

Although I can't see that wokring very well here with UAL or AA hubs at ORD; it's just too crowded and you can't lose a minute or you miss your t/o slot.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineErj145lr From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9032 times:

Yeah, i mean at ord there is never a plane sitting at a gate for more than an hour or so. They are always on the move at ORD. Never seen a spare laying around there!

User currently offlineNumberTwelve From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8877 times:

Erj145, it depends at what time you are in FRA and at which terminal. When i pass the airport at the autobahn at 8 am, I still see the QF 744 (arrival at about 5.30) - but normally planes will be towed away soon and parked at the western part of the airport.


signature censored by admin - so check my profile
User currently offlineIslandhopperCO From Micronesia, joined Dec 2003, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8823 times:

Aren't Lufthansa and BA still state-run (i.e. "socialized") airlines? I may be mistaken on this if they have been privatized. Are they required to report their aircraft utilization rates and turnaround times? It would be interesting to see how far behind state-run European airlines are compared to American LCCs (like Southwest) in aircraft utilization. That is if they are in fact still state-run with no accountability to shareholders.

[Edited 2005-01-12 20:30:29]

[Edited 2005-01-12 20:33:08]

User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8780 times:

@IslandhopperCO: Now ask yourself about how well you´re informed.. LH and BA have been privatized 10 years ago... They have to report to their respective stakeholders.

LH has systemwide around 5-7 planes as back-ups - to cover delays, to have back-ups for mechanical problems etc. As FRA is their major hub in Germany it is simple logic that most back-ups have been asigned here to.



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 8717 times:

Kkfla737 - wow, Frankfurt even has spare runways to park LH's planes on!

User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8453 times:

It´s not only a matter of spares aircraft. It´s a matter of being able to switch quickly to a larger aircraft, when demand jumps up unexpectedly, which is why sometimes you get a 744 FRA/Berlin. Or switch down when suddenly load factors are down.

I understand LH has a special computer system to calculate last-minute pax loads, and thus aircraft switches. That is why for instance instead of getting the expected A321 you can get an A319 (same crew!), or vice-versa.


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8343 times:

Hahaha Kkfla737! They park them on the runways! Thank you for giving me the laugh of the day! (And I do laugh a lot)


All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8209 times:

I had last minute switch at FRA in October. We supposed to fly on A321 but they switched it to A319. I believe we had no empty seat on 319.

US legacy or LCC do not have spares lying around waiting to be used. It is inefficient in the US business mindset. The cannot afford to have non-revenue producing aircraft sitting around; idle airplanes don't make you money.

Yeah, but US legacy and LCC have money to pay for storage on the desert.


User currently offlineUswyjer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8097 times:

Just as an experience I had when waiting for a flight in CLT a few weeks back. One US 737-300 went mechanical that was supposed to fly to BOS, there was another 737 that was sitting a gate just down the concourse, and the Boston flight was switched to that one, instead of waiting out a long delay. Another US 737-300 was delayed coming in that was supposed to turn around and fly up to GSO, instead of waiting out the delay, the GSO flight was put on another 737 that was sitting idle at another gate. So at least from this I guess it can also be the time of day you're at the airport, whether an airline can easily juggle planes around or not.

User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8037 times:

@Lindy: That´s quite common for LH. Simply yield management - having the A319,320 and 321 is quite an advantage for them. Whatever suits the passenger load best is used - I had it on a scheduled flight from BRE to FRA on an A319, and ended up on an A321, simply because on this special flight the demand was so high. Having a high-end booking and yield management makes it easy to predict how many passengers will fly on this special flight, and assigning a bigger plane to this by changing i.e. a back-up A321 against an operation A320 might bring in quite a bit of extra money - on this special flight and possibly a connection flight. A back-up is needed anyway, so why not use it efficently to enhance yields?


Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineORDAgent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7829 times:

I have seen at ORD both AA and UA do have spares as do most US carriers at their major hubs. Aircraft are cycled through the systems and sometimes are put out for a day or so. When I worked INTL departures at ORD for AA we pulled a 767 or much more likely an MD-11 from the hanger ramp when the scheduled bird got sick.

User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7704 times:

When I flew LGA-DTW on Spirit this summer the plane that we were supposed to take had something wrong with it so they put us on the next plane that came in and had the people that were supposed to fly on that plane take ours after it was fixed which actually ended up being as we pulled out. Sometimes just a little change can work too.

jetBlueAtJFK



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7614 times:

I guarantee you that if a LH plane broke down in ORD, DFW, IAH, or any U.S. airport, you wouldn't just be moving over into a spare.

Your situation is unique because it happened at the airlines hub airport.
Consider yourself lucky!!



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineJfrworld From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6752 times:

"Aren't Lufthansa and BA still state-run (i.e. "socialized") airlines? I may be mistaken on this if they have been privatized. Are they required to report their aircraft utilization rates and turnaround times? It would be interesting to see how far behind state-run European airlines are compared to American LCCs (like Southwest) in aircraft utilization. That is if they are in fact still state-run with no accountability to shareholders."

Thank you IslandhopperCO - you stole my words. It isn't cost effective to have spare aircraft just "sitting" around. Ask any airline that is making a profit whether or not they have spare aircraft just sitting around and I'll bet they'd call you crazy.


User currently offlineDC10Tim From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1406 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6653 times:

Actually BA are a wholly private enterprise. They are listed on the London stock exchange and receive no state funding at all.

Tim.



Obviously missing something....
25 Post contains images FLYYUL : JFRWORLD, Thank god you dont work for an airline... that was a real genius post there bud
26 Trex8 : If you want to see a bunch of planes "sitting around", go to HKG and look at all the CX planes there or SIN and the SQ planes there. Oops, sorry, I gu
27 GlobeTrekker : Air France and KLM switch airplanes often. For instance a friend of mine recently flew SXM-CDG-AMS. AT CDG he was scheduled to fly an A319. But the pr
28 Jfrworld : "Thank god you dont work for an airline... that was a real genius post there bud" You're right... and I still have a job, too.
29 Post contains images Burnsie28 : US airlines dont do it, why, becuase an aircraft that is not in the air is not making any money
30 Goldenshield : It makes perfect sense to have spares at hubs or maintainance bases. Most likely, they are waiting to be trown back on the line, and the swap that tak
31 FraT : As said LH (like every other major carrier) has more or less spare A/C at their hubs. In LH's case they are swapping the equipment on the flights with
32 Mozart : I can confirm that LH does have spare planes based at FRA and MUC. I believe it is 1, max. 2, in MUC. Don't know how many in FRA. It was announced a c
33 Carpethead : There are UA aircraft always sitting around the maintenance yards at both SFO & ORD whenever I travel through. At SFO, there's at least one 744, one 7
34 Johnnybgoode : i can confirm what Mozart just said. indeed, LH does have some reserve aircraft at FRA and MUC, as does CityLine at those airports and CGN. and in man
35 Goldenshield : It still takes time getting that plane ready for flight, I.E., finding an aircraft to swap with; preparing the release; bringing said aircraft to the
36 Racko : "US airlines dont do it, why, becuase an aircraft that is not in the air is not making any money" I doubt any US legacy carrier is in a position to te
37 NumberTwelve : Burnsie28: "US airlines dont do it, why, becuase an aircraft that is not in the air is not making any money ." So I think I should write a mail to LH
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