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UPS And Air France Launch Customers For 777-200LRF  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13548 times:

According to Air et Cosmos magazine , both will be launch customers for this new version of the T7.
Since UPS cancelled A300-600Fs , moving to A380s , this paved the way for a 777-200LRF order.But for what ? Replace these cheap acquire MD11s ?
I do not really understand why they will add another airplane type to their fleet.
Surely for Air France T7Fs are the right size for Africa , where the 747-400F and ERF are too big.For many years now , they leased and still lease planes especially for the African market.But why LRF ? They do not need this range to reach Africa from their CDG hub.
Surely we can also put Eva Air in the T7F launch customers basket.
Lufthansa as already mentionned in other topics is not ready to be included.

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13393 times:

Good news for the 772LR aircraft. An order by UPS is quite surprising but I guess it meets their requirements, as for AF well they've been long standing 'supporters' of the 777.

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3656 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13306 times:

A380s and 777s for UPS, I'm surprised. That's a lot of lifting power but then again I believe UPS has been wanting to get rid of there 741s.

-77



PHX based
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12570 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13290 times:
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I'd be somewhat surprised to see the parcel carriers ordering new-build 772LRFs. Apart from the fact they'll be hugely expensive, they'll bulk out way before they get anywhere near max payload. They'd be using a very expensive plane to carry way less than it can.


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13244 times:

Scbriml-

I believe that is why you won't see FedEx order them, but UPS is known for carrying more bulk cargo that can max out payload.

You are correct though, that FedEx it is said, maxes out volume way before payload.



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13233 times:

Is this official that UPS will be a launch customer of the 777-200LRF? Just seems strange as they just cancelled some A300's & picked up some A380's.


Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 13182 times:


UPS still has 13 A306F on order + 10 380F, so why the 772-LRF?

Another wild roumor like the 50(?) 320 for JAL?

Micke / SE  Confused



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineDaedaeg From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13162 times:

I'm not surprised with Air France, they seem to really love the 777. They even made a little presentation for the Boeing employees on the rollout of the 500th 777 celebration. It should be interesting to see who else joins in the fray for the 777LRF.


Everyday you're alive is a good day.
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3411 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13145 times:

It's not that surprising. UPS will mainly use the 380 in asia where freight traffic is booming and landing slots are limited. In a few years all of UPS' 747's will be gone and the 380 will have to step in its place and replace current 747 routes as well as expand to new routes. The A300 will mainly be used for domestic freight the 772 will be used to Europe and current 747 routes that don't need the 380 and the 763 will be used for Europe as well. Don't know about the MD-11's, some people have mentioned that UPS could sell them back to Boeing possibly for these 772's.

User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13134 times:

SOLNABO

NO , it's NOT official , just read this info like i said in the very reliable French weekly magazine Air et Cosmos.
Near 100% of the infos they published first , have been verified


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 13129 times:

I do not really understand why they will add another airplane type to their fleet.

Well, the reality is that they need more planes, and they don't have enough used and modern jets available on the market.

The 777-200F is the perfect replacement for the MD-11F, and they'll probably phase out that fleet type after they reach their capacity needs.

This clearly underscores their decision to go with the 380 being the right one - they badly need international capacity and its hard to come by.

They'd be using a very expensive plane to carry way less than it can.

They'll also get the benefits of range as a result, carrying parcels from SDF to Asia, for example, like FX can do with the M11F.

It works out.

N


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12992 times:

They do not need this range to reach Africa from their CDG hub.

Keep in mind that the 772LRF, though based on the longest-ranged commercial aircraft ever launched, will still "only" have A-market range.




An order by UPS is quite surprising

No it isn't... 5X (and EK) have publically called for/demonstrated interest in such an aircraft since March 2002.


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2453 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12717 times:

It would, (or it will) look good:



http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00003503



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12459 times:

Keep in mind that the 777LRF, though based on the longest ranged commercial aircraft ever launched...

Keep in mind tha,t for the moment, the longest-ranged aircraft ever launched is the Airbus A340-500... as the B772LR has never flown yet.

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12444 times:

The A340-500 is the longest-ranged aircraft in commercial service.

The 777-200LR is the longest-ranged aircraft ever launched.

N


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12353 times:

Well, would imagine with the 777 order that UPS will finally retire those DC8's. MD11 would be used to cover the 747 flying, 777 to cover the DC8 flying...... So, just a guess 747 & DC8's to be retired in the near future......


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12242 times:

Mike-

I expect DC-8s to be replaced by A300s, A300s to be replaced by 767s, 767s to be replaced by M11s, M11s to be replaced by 777s, 747s to be replaced by A380s.

It filters down.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

N


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 12215 times:

Why does 5X need the 772LR? Big fleet to keep up with already...

User currently offlineRtfm From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12185 times:

Good grief - AF stating that 'they seem to really love the 777. They even made a little presentation for the Boeing employees on the rollout of the 500th 777 celebration'. Seems terribly pro-Boeing of them (for a European carrier) .... whatever next...?  Big grin

User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12164 times:

Lufthansa as already mentionned in other topics is not ready to be included.

Well, I still have some hope that a 699000 lbs MTOW, RR-powered 777F will come and LH will buy it. After all, this MTOW reduction by 67000 lbs would mean to lose some range, but no cargo capacity.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12154 times:


Well, I still have some hope that a 699000 lbs MTOW, RR-powered 777F will come and LH will buy it.


I'm afraid your faith is pointless. Boeing isn't going to offer two different new build freighters.

The only hope you have for an RR freighter is a 777-200(SF).

N


User currently offlineDaedaeg From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12149 times:

Seems terribly pro-Boeing of them (for a European carrier) ....

Nah, they just know a real quality aircraft when they see it.  Smile



Everyday you're alive is a good day.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4791 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11161 times:

I wouldnt be surprised to see in the future an order by ANA for B 772LR Freighters replacing B 763Fs currently in the fleet.

Other airlines that can could do well with the B 772LRF are Malaysian Airlines and Air Hong Kong which can replace B 742Fs/B743Fs.

I do not see Varig nor DAS AIR CARGO of Africa ordering B 772LRFs for at least 10 years as they'll be replacing their DC 10-30Fs with MD11Fs.



User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26534 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10961 times:

>Replace these cheap acquire MD11s ?
I do not really understand why they will add another airplane type to their fleet.<

Because number of types does not mean as much to cargo carriers as it does to PAX carriers, just like fuel consumption. They can keep both planes. The problem with the MD-11 is that only 200 were ever built, and they are all accounted for (including those WFU or W/O)

>Surely for Air France T7Fs are the right size for Africa , where the 747-400F and ERF are too big.For many years now , they leased and still lease planes especially for the African market.But why LRF?<


At MTOW, because of the increased weights of freight carrying, you are talking 5200 nm range, which is still amazing in freight carrying context.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10613 times:

Seems terribly pro-Boeing of them (for a European carrier) .... whatever next...?

Sorry... there are a good deal of people in this world (like AF) who don't make impulse decisions based on (pointless) "allegience" to a certain product because of its nationality.

AF stating that 'they seem to really love the 777. They even made a little presentation for the Boeing employees on the rollout of the 500th 777 celebration'

Well they are one of the largest 777 customers, was a launch customer for the 773ER, and recieved the first 773ER delivery. They are also one of the largest A320 opperators and an A380 launch customer... what's your point?


25 William : Keep in mind kids that UPS also brought Menlo. Menlo ( Emery and has a hub in Dayton) specializes in fast heavy lifting. Big palletized items,not smal
26 Icebird757 : MidnightMike hit it right on the head. I see the 777 replacing the DC-8s as they are probably the oldest in the fleet.
27 Mdl21483 : Using 777s to replace the DC-8s seems a bit overkill- the payload range increase alone would be like increasing the route capacity by what, around 200
28 Gigneil : The 333 wouldn't feature the same mission profile as an M11. Its payload would be signficantly lower (65ish tons) and range would be shorter. N
29 WIDEBODYPHOTOG : I wouldnt be surprised to see in the future an order by ANA for B 772LR Freighters replacing B 763Fs currently in the fleet. ANA can not operate freig
30 UAcsOKC : I seriously doubt UPS will up and retire all their DC-8s, you get a lot of bang for your buck on those aircraft. However I believe that a 777 aquisiti
31 Browntailwhale : All you armchair CEO's crack me up! I love it how you guys speculate on what UPS should do. Here's the deal, UPS management has no philosophical probl
32 MidnightMike : Browntailwhale Oh have some fun dude, this is an aviation website and we are simply talking about airplanes. Most of us realize that change takes time
33 Browntailwhale : Actually I do enjoy the speculation, keep it up!
34 MidnightMike : Browntailwhale Which equipment are you on?
35 Browntailwhale : 747, hence my name! Will hopefully be changing it to browntail380 in a few years!
36 Columba : "747, hence my name! Will hopefully be changing it to browntail380 in a few years!" Good luck with that !!
37 Post contains images Gigneil : Will hopefully be changing it to browntail380 in a few years! Hey I actually have a question. How does 5X cater those longhauls? Do you have to run ba
38 Browntailwhale : Long haul flights are catered. Yes, someone has to go in back and prepare the food.
39 N1120a : >Also the MD-11 has weight and balance issues that make them more difficult to load. Just ask any Fedex person.
40 Post contains images Gigneil : Korean has some experience with the weight and balance of the M11F, as well. N
41 UPS Pilot : The MD11 could have loading issues if not loaded properly. The key word is properly!. I have a bet going on which hub is going to tip the 11 first. I'
42 777ER : Hope the UPS and AF B772LRF order turns true.
43 Browntailwhale : The latest at UPS from a very reliable source is deal for 25 747-400SF's, with the first to be in service hopefully late this year.
44 Gigneil : That's also very interesting. The 744 has a lot of unusable space in FX's container-centric configuration. N
45 UPS Pilot : Talks are close with the 747 and with the 777 LRF. Boeing is still trying to sell the 747 ADV Freighter in the deal.
46 Aa61hvy : I'm curious if 5X does get the A380, will they bust out the seperator between the two decks? Or will they keep them completely seperate?
47 Post contains images Solnabo : Reading all the posts in this topic, it looks like the freighter version of 7LR is a hit..... Great news! Micke
48 Gigneil : I'm curious if 5X does get the A380, will they bust out the seperator between the two decks? Or will they keep them completely seperate? The floor is
49 UPS Pilot : Right now UPS is working with Airbus on reconfiguring the A380 for UPS operations. It will be different from Fed Ex's configuration as the a300.
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