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Brazilian Presidential ACJ Delivered  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7029 times:

Brazil's Lula Swaps `Junk Heap' for Official Airbus (Update1)
Jan. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Brazil's President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva is exchanging his 47-year-old presidential Boeing 707, called the ``Big Heap of Junk,'' for a $56.7 million Airbus corporate jet.


The new Airbus ACJ can carry up to 55 passengers and is equipped with a system for sending encrypted communications by satellite. The government is scheduled to receive the plane from Airbus tomorrow and Lula will board it for the inaugural flight on Jan. 19 to start a student community service project in the Amazonian city of Tabatinga.

Former President Jose Sarney referred to the `Junk Heap' in a newspaper column today, recalling how it froze up in Moscow and belched out smoke as he boarded it for a flight to the funeral of Japan's Emperor Hirohito in 1989. The government says the new aircraft is in keeping with the prestige and security needs of the world's fifth-biggest country by landmass; some Brazilians have criticized its cost.

``I don't think it's good spending,'' said Isidore Revers, 52, coordinator of the Pastoral Land Commission, a church-linked group pressing for more government investment to help peasants settle on underused rural lands. ``There are other means of transportation that he could use such as leasing an aircraft.''

The new airplane costs more than some social programs in Brazil, such as one to help young people get their first job, and goes against Lula's pledges to cut government spending in South America's biggest economy.

`AeroLula'

``A presidential plane is more than a simple transport aircraft,'' Brazil's aviation authority said in a statement. ``In a crisis atmosphere, such as the possibility of a conflict, it automatically forms part of the defense system of the country and is transformed into a command post in the air.''

``AeroLula,'' as the Brazilian press has dubbed the new plane, can fly for 11,000 kilometers (6837 miles), allowing the president to make non-stop journeys to Europe or New York and Washington, a spokesman for the Brazilian Air Force said.

The government officially named the new plane ``Santos- Dumont'' in honor of Alberto Santos Dumont, a Brazilian aviation pioneer. The ``Junk Heap,'' a former cargo plane with an effective range of 9,000 kilometers, can't land at some airports in the U.S. and Europe because it's too noisy, the spokesman said.

``The `Junk Heap' is scary -- it looks like it's going to crash,'' said Andre Cesar, a political scientist at Goes & Consultores Associados in Brasilia. ``It shows that a country that wants to participate seriously in international trade is not well-equipped to talk about business.''

Lula's Concerns

In a column in Brasilia's Correio Braziliense newspaper, Sarney, 74, spoke of his memories flying in the ``Junk Heap'' as president between 1985 and 1990. Boarding the airport on route to Hirohito's funeral, the aircraft began ``smoking crazily'' as oil leaked onto pipes filled with hot gases, forcing him to switch planes.

Sarney recalled how on another occasion -- an 11-hour flight across the Pacific -- an Air Force brigadier joked with him about ``us in this old plane and the sharks down below with their mouths open.'' He said Brazil has a history of flying its presidents around in old planes.

When Sarney was president, his reserve aircraft was a Vickers Viscount turbo-prop, bought by President Juscelino Kubitschek in 1956. The Viscount replaced a Douglas DC-3 dating from the Second World War, Sarney said in his column.

Lula, who will use the Airbus to fly to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland this month, has expressed concern about the ``Junk Heap'' too.

``We will pay for not changing planes when we have a wake for a government minister,'' he said in a 2003 interview with Veja magazine.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000086&sid=azTeKQeI.8sE&refer=latin_america


I found some pictures aswell:

http://www.estadao.com.br/ext/galeria/aviao/fotos/19.jpg

I like it, looks very nice IMO. Though it would have been nicer if it was a larger aircraft... but it is still very nice and it costs less.

I like "AeroLula", barely delivered and already has a nickname  Big grin

Cheers,

PPVRA

PS: This was long overdue... the 707 is still in very good conditions, but it's really has come.

[Edited 2005-01-15 19:12:47]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6696 times:

Long time in comming the replacement huh.  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6684 times:

Since the article didn't mention, it's an ACJ-319.

Indeed HAWK, a long time.

Cheers,

PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6672 times:

Yes it is a big expense. However I think leasing a plane would be an even worse idea. The government does not need to add to its debt by leasing things when it can outright buy them. This plane will probably serve the Brazilian government for 30+ years and is a good investment compared to the cost the country would face if the 707 crashed or had a major incident with the president on board. All this while some people want the 742s of Air Force One to be replaced because they think that they are getting old.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6638 times:

That cabin isn't really decked out like other BBJ pics that I have seen. I would have expected at least club seating. It looks like the plane was configured in the most practical way possible, rather than making it overly ornate with expensive wood trim all over the plane. Thanks for the pics.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6617 times:

...overly ornate with expensive wood trim all over the plane.

This is obviously a very controversial purchase, if they had installed very luxurious interiors the press would be ALL over (even more).

Former President Fernando Henrique Cardoso was supposed to buy this aircraft at the end of his term. However, he let the decision slip to President Lula because it is so controversial and his image had been deteriorating for some time. Not to mention his party had an election to win [which they lost anyways]!


PPVRA







"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6573 times:

PPVRA,

I thoroughly enjoyed the Bloomberg article about the B707 'Sucatao'; absolutely hilarious. Brazil's president requires an long-range aircraft (owned and operated by the Brazilian Air Force) capable of reliable transport and remote command/control capabilities.

Brazil is, after the U.S., the most populous and important nation in the Western Hemisphere. Brazil's relationship with far-flung nations (especially in Asia) is key to its strategic development and Lula's overseas travels will foster Brazil's commercial, political and cultural ties with the global community.

Frankly, this is USD 58 well spent by the Republica Federativa do Brasil!!!!!

cheers,

PDPsol

[Edited 2005-01-15 21:10:44]

User currently offlineKomododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6556 times:

PDPSol,

They're going for US$58? Wow I gotta get me one of those when my paycheck arrives!  Laugh out loud

Seriously, it's a beauty!  Love

On a similar note, does anyone know when the Colombian Air Force (FAC) BBJ is supposed to be delivered?

SNB


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6537 times:

Komododx,

Oh my god!!! What a bargain, hehehehe!

What I meant was, USD 58 MILLION!!


User currently offlineAirbusCanada From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

Why dont' they buy and Emb-195 and convert it to a BiZjet.

Cdn govt officials including the PM always travel on a Challenger(Much smaller than EMB-195) unless its' an transcon flight.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

I guess the Embraer Legacy business jet based on the ERJ 145 wasn't big enough for them. I doubt that they could get enough range out of an E-195 to make it to Europe nonstop at less cost than an ACJ. The serious modifications and then the over water problems would cost a ton. The legacy is really the only plane that could serve the purpose well enough, but going from a 707 to an ERJ is a big change. To carry the number of seats necessary, they would have to stick economy seats inside for those 10 hour flights to Europe-no fun at all.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6447 times:

Why dont' they buy and Emb-195 and convert it to a BiZjet.

They did talk about buying a EMB-190/195 series aircraft a while ago, but then the talk just died... Probably because of the reasons RoseFlyer mentioned (reply 11) and that at that time they were still on paper.

Interesting to note that there is an Embraer-170 BizJet mock up picture in Embraer's website, it could certainly be related to these rumors at that time. President Lula also made several trips onboard an Embraer Legacy.

http://mediamanager.embraer.com.br/midias/imagem/preview/1_030802_0077_p_RGB.jpg

I do hope when it comes time to change the other BBJs (732s) they go for the EMB-190/5 or the Legacy.

Cheers,

PPVRA

PS: PDPsol, I too found it funny how they translated it!!



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6437 times:

Why dont' they buy and Emb-195 and convert it to a BiZjet.

Cdn govt officials including the PM always travel on a Challenger(Much smaller than EMB-195) unless its' an transcon flight.

Yea its too bad this couldn't work How Many Heads of State get to fly by Aircraft Made in their Country..

Lets See:
U.S.A, Russia, France ??,Canada (Domestic-USA CRJ),Ukraine ??


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5718 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Beautiful. I think it's quite modest choice of an aircraft for a country the size and importance of Brazil. Although I agree it's a pity they did not find a viable alternative with Embraer.

User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

On a similar note, does anyone know when the Colombian Air Force (FAC) BBJ is supposed to be delivered?



They said it's gonna be here in Colombia on May 2005, but it was supposed to be delivered on 2004 so I don't really know if that date is truly reliable.



I gladly accept donations to pay for flight hours! This thing draws man...
User currently offlineARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 487 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

How much did Menem paid for the 757-200? i think its nicer and bigger.. also .. I dont like the paint scheme on the tail... it should have the beautifull Brasilian Flag !! Otherwise.. congratulations!! and finally i'll see it on AEP


Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
User currently offlineAirbusCanada From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6228 times:

Yea its too bad this couldn't work How Many Heads of State get to fly by Aircraft Made in their Country..

Lets See:
U.S.A, Russia, France ??,Canada (Domestic-USA CRJ),Ukraine ??


U forgot Germany (310), UK(AvroRJ)


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

Here in Venezuela Chavez bought himself a brand new A319CJ in 2002. The deal was controversial just like this one, many said that the money could've been spent in schools and hospitals.

We switched this bird:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ricardo Morales Aviation Photography of Mexico



for this one:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Juan Carlos Guerra Aviation Photography of Mexico



User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6203 times:

Yea its too bad this couldn't work How Many Heads of State get to fly by Aircraft Made in their Country..
Lets See:
U.S.A, Russia, France ??,Canada (Domestic-USA CRJ),Ukraine ??


Incidentally, the ACJ that France flies is based on the A319 that's built in Hamburg...

U forgot Germany (310), UK(AvroRJ)

... while the A310 that the German government uses is actually built in France...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5939 times:

I think this is a photo of the bird taken in Hamburg, manufacturing site, before delivery:


View Large View Medium

Photo © Gerd Beilfuss



Why dont' they buy and Emb-195 and convert it to a BiZjet.
They did talk about buying a EMB-190/195 series aircraft a while ago,


Indeed, the first priority was to convert a EMB-190/195. However, the plane would not have the flight range of the ACJ-319. With the ACJ-319 the President of Brazil will be able to fly nonstop from BSB or GRU to IAD, JFK, CDG or FRA.

At the end, the decision was between the ACJ and the Boeing equivalent 737-BBJ.

The Brazil ACJ is designed to carry a maximum of 55 pax. Accoridng to the Brazilian Air Force, each flight of the ACJ will cost USD2,000/hour with an estimated annual operating cost of USD 2,5 million. The old 707 had an operating cost of USD 7,000/hour.

How much did Menem paid for the 757-200? i think its nicer and bigger.

I dont think the 757 is nicer and bigger.

Just another piece of news, in order to make the delivery of the plane milder in the eyes of the public, the Brazilian press office announced that Airbus picked Brazil as the location for investment in the amount of USD100 million, to build a/c components around the site of the Embraer manufacturing plant. The investment will be a partnership with the Belgian Sonaca.

My opinion about the Presidential plane? It was high time for the Brazilian President to have a more modern and updated plane. The 707 was too old and had to be retired long ago. I know the bill was high, but necessary for a President of a country such as Brazil.

Anyone knows to which air museum in Brazil will the old 707 be exposed?

Rgs,


[Edited 2005-01-23 12:36:45]

User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5900 times:

Yea its too bad this couldn't work How Many Heads of State get to fly by Aircraft Made in their Country..
Lets See:
U.S.A, Russia, France ??,Canada (Domestic-USA CRJ),Ukraine ??

You forgot the Netherlands, which flies a Fokker 70




User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

The Brazilian Air Force does have many Embraers in its fleet, incluing a new acquisition of about 6 ex-SL EMB-145s, and many others.

I think the President or authorities sometimes also use the EMB-120 Brasilia and the EMB-110 Bandeirante for short-range flights:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Renato Viani
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria



The Dutch Head of State uses the F-50 and not the F-70:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Arttu Laaksonen



Which airplane does the Dutch Queen and the Prime Minister use in official visits? Does the Dutch Royal Family have its own plane?

Tks,


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5817 times:

The Dutch royal family uses this Fokker 70:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner




Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5801 times:

The Dutch royal family uses this Fokker 70

Thank you very much for the information. It seems a humble option, considering that the Jordanian Royal Family flies a dedicated A340!

Just out of interest, the Belgian Royal family flies the Brazilian-made ERJ-145, and the UK royal family the Avro RJ-100. How do they manage on long-range flights?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Olivier Dessy - Luxembourg Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Hohl



I guess I'm changing my mind, and maybe the President of Brazil could indeed have manged a more modest choice, such as the home-made ERJ-145 or ERJ-190....

Rgs,


25 PPVRA : Anyone knows to which air museum in Brazil will the old 707 be exposed? Don't think it's going to a museum... It will stay in the Air Force and change
26 HAWK21M : Why the ACJ319.What was the choice based on.Why not the BBJ/BBJ2. regds MEL
27 Cyberual : I do not see why people in Brazil are making a big deal about this. I understand that there are a lot of needy people in Brazil, but without the purch
28 Hardiwv : Why the ACJ319.What was the choice based on.Why not the BBJ/BBJ2 Do you want the official answer or the real answer? Just kidding, but of course polit
29 Aifos : Hardiwv, Most of the flights of the European Royals are very short. Most of the capitals or resorts they may fly to are only 2 to 3 hours away! Just c
30 Post contains images Hardiwv : Lula is correct about the 707- it's a piece of junk. You said it all, and I have to agree! Most of the flights of the European Royals are very short I
31 Post contains images PPVRA : Another information: TAM won the bidding for the maintenance of the presidential ACJ. Indeed, Lula is not so stupid, or do you think he would award th
32 Post contains images Hardiwv : It will stay in the Air Force and change it's mission to in flight refueling Of course, I was being ironical about the 707 going to a museum VEM is a
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