LongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 4 Posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7863 times:
Ok all, if you get on an airline and don't like the service don't fly it ever again. If you go to a Travel Agent and ask for the best price, or if you doing a business trip and your company Travel Agents pick the flight. You can do one of the following.
Take the ticket and SHUTUP!
or
You can decline the ticket, and request the airline you want to fly and pay more.
So in other words, you pick your own fate. If you want to gamble on a low cost adventure or put any restrictions on your travel arrangement than you are making the bed. So just lay in it, and don't fly them again.
I personally think the most complaints a Airline Employee receive are the cheapskate passengers who went on Travelocity, or Priceline and though they were paying a high price for tickets. Sorry folks 100.00 doesn't even cover the cost of the pilot for 10 minutes on most flights.
Bostonguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 514 posts, RR: 8 Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7650 times:
Yeah... I'm having a difficult time figuring out what the point is, too.
Perhaps this is about putting the blame for poor service on paying customers (an incredibly bad business strategy). Or maybe it's about linking poor service with low fares (which is completely false as one can easily see when one pays a low fare and receives outstanding service on airlines such as JetBlue or Southwest).
If I pay a fare high enough for an airline to make a profit on my travel and someone else on my flight pays a low fare that doesn't provide a profit... what happens if we both receive poor service on that flight? Would that make me a cry baby, too?
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12557 posts, RR: 64 Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7349 times:
Sorry everyone, but Longbow has a very valid point. Typically, the customers who whine and bitch the most are the ones who pay the least.
It makes no sense, but it's true. And unfortunately, the vast majority of them come from or have something to do with Expedia, Travelocity, or Orbitz.
Perhaps this is about putting the blame for poor service on paying customers (an incredibly bad business strategy). Or maybe it's about linking poor service with low fares (which is completely false as one can easily see when one pays a low fare and receives outstanding service on airlines such as JetBlue or Southwest).
Oh stop. All he's doing is venting about the propensity for those who paid the least to expect the most and complain incessantly about anything and everything.
Is it the customers' fault? Hell no. I blame airline management, who has, unfortunately:
trained customers to wait only for big sales
created the unrealistic expectation that $200.00 roundtrip should get you ANYWHERE in the U.S.
mismanaged their companies horribly, for the most part
chosen employees as the scapegoat
From the employee's perspective, their pay and benefits are being cut for the sake of continuing to offer dirt-cheap tickets to record numbers of unappreciative, overly-demanding customers.
Is it fair to say that it's true, and that customers are to blame? Not entirely - but to a point, it IS true - much the same as we the consumers are to blame for Wal-Mart's frenzied growth and the problems created by that.
As consumers, we're our own worst enemies. We want everything for nothing, and eventually there's a price to pay for that mentality.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Ctbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7284 times:
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12557 posts, RR: 64 Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7167 times:
Wow...sorry to burden you with another thread, Charles.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Ctbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 52 Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7123 times:
Wow...sorry to burden you with another thread, Charles
I'm only pointing out we still have a "let's demonize the customer" thread that is active; This one seems redundant and vitriolic in a rather inappropriate way.
LongbowPilot:
Do you really hate your customers that much?
Charles, SJ
(Lemming #3,458,662)
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
KANEBEAR From United States of America, joined May 2002, 953 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7090 times:
Welcome to dealing with the public. You think any other consumer-focused industry is any different? Grocery stores, retail outfits, etc... ALL deal with problem customers that make unreasonable demands, are pushy, etc. In some of those cases too, those that shout the loudest are the bottomfeeders (bought the item on sale, etc). Commercial aviation isn't unique so if you can't deal with them I suggest you find another line of work that DOES NOT deal with the public.
KabAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 245 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7076 times:
"One time a guy wanted a refund because of turbulence. He said, "He is scared for his life that the wing was going to fall off it was flapping so hard!'"
My former roommate just got back from the east coast last night. Said he'll never fly USAirways again - I asked why - he said the flight was terribly turbulent, probably due to the "old aircraft" he was on. I tried very hard not to laugh at him. But failed. He's a good guy and all, but I just COULD NOT convince him that had he been on a UA 777 - he STILL Would have had the bad turbulence. He's a nurse - so I think I might tell him I hate my healthcare provider because I got a cold last week. And they didn't prevent it.
Be careful though about ripping "low paying customers" and insinuating that they somehow don't deserve excellent service. I remember hearing a story (can't be sure if it's 100% true) about a CEO of a major company hubbed in Illinois which used an airline out of Chicago for A LOT of business travel. We're talking many, many thousands of dollars each week spent on economy tickets. This CEO had heard some things, and decided to buy a cheap economy ticket for himself on a short trip and "test" the service to see what would happen. He was essentially met with the "sit down and shut up because you're a low paying economy customer and we don't give a crap about you" attitude. That next week he pulled the company's travel "account" or whatever with that airline, losing them MILLIONS of dollars. Anyone know which company this was? I just heard the story second hand. In any case, I think it illustrates how careful you must be, and that EVERY customer deserves to be treated well (within reason of course).
wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
Ctbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7049 times:
This CEO had heard some things, and decided to buy a cheap economy ticket for himself on a short trip and "test" the service to see what would happen. He was essentially met with the "sit down and shut up because you're a low paying economy customer and we don't give a crap about you" attitude.
...And everyone wonders why competition for first class upgrades is so intense.
Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12557 posts, RR: 64 Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6980 times:
Wow...sorry to burden you with another thread, Charles
I'm only pointing out we still have a "let's demonize the customer" thread that is active
Oh I know, I was just giving you a hard time in a joking way, hence the wink. I understand your point.
So now we're pigeonholing people who use Expedia and Travelocity......
No, just people who have unrealistic expectations and/or whine and bitch incessantly.
It just so happens that the majority of them tend to also come from Expedia and Travelocity for some reason.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Dan-air From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 614 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6970 times:
From the employee's perspective, their pay and benefits are being cut for the sake of continuing to offer dirt-cheap tickets to record numbers of unappreciative, overly-demanding customers.
Is it fair to say that it's true, and that customers are to blame? Not entirely - but to a point, it IS true - much the same as we the consumers are to blame for Wal-Mart's frenzied growth and the problems created by that.
As consumers, we're our own worst enemies. We want everything for nothing, and eventually there's a price to pay for that mentality.
You're right - customers want and will pay the lowest possible price. The airline *chooses* to offer those prices so that it may *compete*. That does not absolve it of providing the services that it advertised and for which the customer is paying, namely:
- the ability to check-in in a reasonable amount of time, the airline providing sufficient numbers of trained staff to handle the number of customers that are expected to show up at any given time.
- compensation offered when the carrier chooses to cancel a flight for economic reasons.
- staff that answer questions in a courteous and professional fashion, remembering that they are there for the sole purpose of transporting customers from point A to point B, regardless of how little or how much they have paid for the service.
That's all most customers want from an airline. The product for which they paid.
Ctbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 52 Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6957 times:
Oh I know, I was just giving you a hard time in a joking way, hence the wink. I understand your point.
Sorry EA CO AS. I'm a little more thin skinned than usual this morning.
Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12557 posts, RR: 64 Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6813 times:
Sources, please
Well, seeing as I'm a customer relations supervisor for a major airline and have noticed this trend firsthand, I guess you can call ME a source.
Or were you hoping for a linked article from the Associated Press or Reuters titled, "Studies Show Expedia and Travelocity Customers Bitch More"?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Annoyedfa From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 451 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6795 times:
Kabair: Tell me what hospital your friend works out because he is a complete idiot and I would be glad to tell him. Any nurse that dumb should not be working in a Hospital... Sorry!
KabAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 245 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6718 times:
"Kabair: Tell me what hospital your friend works out because he is a complete idiot and I would be glad to tell him. Any nurse that dumb should not be working in a Hospital... Sorry!"
Ah, Annoyedfa - so we meet again! Actually he's a really smart guy overall but just really really - well - not smart when it comes to planes. Kinda like how overall my brain works for the most part but I have no mechanical talent. I can't hardly change my own windshielf wiper fluid to save my life. We all have our areas I guess. Anyway, we're flying your airline next month so if you could please make sure we don't hit any turbulence, I'd appreciate it.
EA CO AS - I was just giving you a hard time about "sources". Hence the smiley face afterwards. No offense intended.... Of course being on the job is always the best source.
wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4650 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6685 times:
I think the point is that many travelers think that if one airline offers a cheap fare, then every airline that flies that route should offer the same fare. But, if one gets a cheap fare on a legacy carrier, one still thinks he should get pillows, a full meal, etc.
If people think an airline seat is a commodity, then they should expect similar, no-frills service throughout the industry.
On the other hand, if people picked hotels the way they pick airlines, then everyone would stay at Motel 6 or Red Roof Inn. Obviously, people do stay at Hyatts, Hiltons, Marriots, and Westins, because they want the amenities that cheaper chains don't have, such as pools, fitness centers, business centers, multiple dining options, locations in business districts, meeting space, etc., and they are willing to pay considerably more on a per-night basis.
As for the airline dilema, I don't know how it can be solved. No legacy carrier is about to advertise that its fares are higher, because it has better on-board service.
Tango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3725 posts, RR: 31 Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6522 times:
"It just so happens that the majority of them tend to also come from Expedia and Travelocity for some reason"
Sources, please
Along with EA CO AS, I find the same to be true. And like EA CO AS, I am squarely in a position -- with an airline -- to sort out fact from fiction on this issue. So add me to the list of airline customer service employees who will tell you that EA CO AS is totally correct in noticing that Expedia and Travelocity customers (and agents) tend to be more notoriously inclined to be cry baby passengers.
Imagine whatever you wish, but unless you have a "ringside seat" in the customer service area of the airline industry, as both EA CO AS and I do, consider the liklihood (in our case, consider it a certainty) that we are aware of many situations to which self-proclaimed experts are totally oblivious.
25 777STL: "I guess I'll have to speak like the lemmings (passengers) so they understand" Because you're SOOOO superior because you work for an airline, right? I
26 Lehpron: I still don't get his point though, so what if pax who pay less bitch, what is the problem? Does he not want to hear it? Does he prefer they pay more,
27 Kdeg00: OK, let me try to understand the approach to the low price ticket discussion. If, for example, I purchase a ticket from Travelocity or a consolidator
28 ATLhomeCMH: Welcome to dealing with the public. You think any other consumer-focused industry is any different? Grocery stores, retail outfits, etc... ALL deal wi
29 Ctbarnes: Imagine whatever you wish, but unless you have a "ringside seat" in the customer service area of the airline industry, as both EA CO AS and I do, cons
30 ATLhomeCMH: Why don't we see any threads when customers don't whine? Because this is the expected behavior of civilized adults. You don't get a big shiny medal, a
32 FRAspotter: 777STL, This is a forum, this is the place where all us a.neters can discuss topics and say how we feel on certain issues. The guy is venting and righ
33 EA CO AS: Why don't we see any threads when customers don't whine? Because this is the expected behavior of civilized adults. You don't get a big shiny medal, a
34 Ctbarnes: Because this is the expected behavior of civilized adults. You don't get a big shiny medal, a blue ribbon and the key to the city just because you ref
35 777STL: "He was told by my sup and manager that he can lodge the complaint with the airline's customer care department. I mean c'mon he wanted a refund or eno
36 Regis: I guess in the end it is our (the customer) fault for taking up the airlines on the fares they offer. Yes sir, it is me, and only me to fault when AA
37 EA CO AS: And once again, I don't understand why he's bitching at us about this as if we are the ones to blame? I think it's already been explained that he's si
38 777STL: " I think it's already been explained that he's simply venting, so with all due respect, there's nothing to understand. He's only expressing his opini
39 Tango-Bravo: OK, let me try to understand the approach to the low price ticket discussion. If, for example, I purchase a ticket from Travelocity or a consolidator
40 EA CO AS: How is this thread constructive, what is to be gained from this? It's constructive because the poster got to air his viewpoint. He was able to get som
41 KabAir: "it's not in any way their fault that our airline is stupid enough to allow our flights to be booked on the likes of Travelocity or at absurdly low wh
42 Kdeg00: No, of course you didn't "say" that discount customers deserve lesser service, but yes, it is implied by many of the people writing in this and other,
43 EA CO AS: My remarks weren't a personal attack on you or EA CO AS and anyone reading them should recognize that. FWIW, I've not seen your remarks as a personal
44 Cyclonic: To quote a song lyric: "Incompetent people are the loudest"..... You're always going to get some whiny bitch/bastard that expects the world for next t
45 ODwyerPW: Worst treatment I ever received was on a 1 way ticket from Roanoke VA to Albany NY that cost $439. Best I ever received (sans Air New Zealand and Qant
46 Vez: I think it has more to do with attitude than everything else. Sometimes, members of the staff are so impolite they should be fired, but sometimes cust
47 EA CO AS: BTW, my brother once went on a flight and his barf bag was not a brand new one. Was it merely old, or perhaps written on? Or was it USED for its inten
48 Lincoln: I am speaking with none -- zero -- expertise here, but re: the Travelocity Bashing--- I think it may be because people who buy through Travelocity, et
49 Vez: Was it merely old, or perhaps written on? No, it was full of what it is intended to contain Defensive how, though? Was he really direct? Did he yell?
50 ATLhomeCMH: Why don't we see any threads when customers don't whine? Because this is the expected behavior of civilized adults. You don't get a big shiny medal, a
51 Ctbarnes: But, if you read post #28 I think you'll see a little bit better where I'm coming from. Sorry. I don't buy it. I've been working with the public for o
52 EA CO AS: Keep in mind that you're at least getting some money with a butt in that seat vs. flying an empty seat around. At what cost, though? That's the proble
53 Ctbarnes: There is too much complacency and too much faith is placed in the ability of large market agencies and online distributors that ultimately peddle just
54 Lincoln: EA CO AS: It's easy for airline personnel to get frustrated with these online agencies, since they bring in lower yield customers, yet create MORE wor
55 EA CO AS: Or are you referring to date changes, etc.? (The more mundane side)... If that's the case why wouldn't Travelocity et. al. handle these in house? Unfo
56 Ctbarnes: Another thing to beware of when buying tickets online: Buying a ticket from an airline website does not necessarily mean you are dealing with the airl
57 Lincoln: PS: I'm also the type of person who will not automatically pay the lowest fare. Foremost in my mind is getting a nonstop flight. Lower fares usually i
58 LongbowPilot: Ok, folks I am a U.S. Army Aviator. That does not mean I have done that my whole life. I worked for a major US carrier for 5 years prior to my entry i
59 ANCFlyer: LongbowPilot, my congratulations on being an Army Aviator - especially at AH-64 driver - it's a hell of a responsibility. My thanks for serving our co
60 777STL: "Secondly, this thread is trying to wake people up that a cheap ticket has no more rights to service or ammentities then an expensive full coach fare.
61 LongbowPilot: No we don't if you are in the line we service you. The thread is about the passengers that are the most porne to complain are the ones that have the c
62 N801NW: I've used Orbitz three times. Usually I go to nwa.com, which proclaims to be "powered by Orbitz." I may have to use Orbitz again because nwa's invento
64 ANCFlyer: I treat all passengers the same, until they step out of line and are rude Don't blame you a bit. . . . anyone who has seen my other posts on similar s
65 Ctbarnes: It is in my experience that Orbitz/Cheap ticket hunters are the most irritated people about service. Upon what do you base this claim? It still seems
66 LongbowPilot: The main point you guys. I finally found it. If your company pays for your ticket on a carrier you don't like or you ask a web company to give you the
67 LongbowPilot: It is in my experience that Orbitz/Cheap ticket hunters are the most irritated people about service. I was a ticket agent for 5 years. I think that co
68 Ctbarnes: Than you sign up for that carriers rules and services. Don't blame the airline for the service. Blame yourself for picking that carrier. So, to use th
69 LongbowPilot: ok you have to read the previous threads CT. I said earlier that you will get the service deemed your fare, and you have the right to complain.. Compl
70 ANCFlyer: If you like to fly that carrier and choose the cheap fare don't expect the first class treatment but expect the full coach treatment. Concur with cave
71 LongbowPilot: Frequent Flyers are handled in a different way. They are essentially thier own class. More or less FF's don't get upset when stuff goes awry. Again I
72 Ctbarnes: Basically said I don't think it is fair to generalize an airlines services if you flew one flight. Nor, for that matter, is it fair to generalize pass
73 Kdeg00: One of the problems may be that most web customers have no idea about the gap between travelocity/priceline, etc. and the airline the ticket is for. G
75 LongbowPilot: I"m not generalizing! I been there done that and am calling on experiance, 90% of cheap fare ticket people are not Frequent Fliers and do not travel a
76 Ltbewr: One important issue as to service to discount ticket fares passangers and if use Travelocity and such agents or airline websites, is that you may not
77 N801NW: Are we lumping "white" consolidator fares in with the normal A-P coach L,U,T,K fares offered by the airlines and the web-booking sites. I don't think
78 Ctbarnes: Im not generalizing! I been there done that and am calling on experiance, 90% of cheap fare ticket people are not Frequent Fliers and do not travel a
79 LongbowPilot: CT, You aren't reading and comprehending the threads. You have to understand the airline buisiness to understand what i'm saying i guess. I left my jo
80 Ctbarnes: You have to understand the airline buisiness to understand what i'm saying i guess. Er, I've been an airport chaplain for 5 years. I spend a lot of ti
81 EA CO AS: No one is calling into question what you have seen. You may have observed that in the time you worked for the airline, but is that the experience of e
83 Ctbarnes: C'mon now Charles - aren't you setting the bar unrealistically high, here? Yes, I am setting the bar high. Whether I'm setting it unrealistically high
84 EA CO AS: Yes, I am setting the bar high. Whether I'm setting it unrealistically high or not I think is worth some dialogue. I did not mean to come across as di
85 Ctbarnes: Thanks EA CO AS. I first thought this was going to be a repeat of a previous thread, but now I've found this to be a great discussion. Thanks for your
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He's a good guy and all, but I just COULD NOT convince him that had he been on a UA 777 - he STILL Would have had the bad turbulence. He's a nurse - so I think I might tell him I hate my healthcare provider because I got a cold last week. And they didn't prevent it. 
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