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A380: 40% American  
User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5554 times:


- With the GP7200 powered A380, the proportion of American product in the aircraft reach 40%!!
- The A380 will create 100000 jobs in USA.

So the communist EU helps the USA  Big grin

What is the percentage of US and EU product in the B7E7?

Sorry, only in French: http://www.courrierinternational.com/article.asp?obj_id=46075&provenance=ameriques&bloc=06

Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAaflt1871 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2333 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5450 times:

I translated the part of the article in english for ya.

Moreover, "on already decrees with the plane the statute of machine with employment, not only in its native Europe, but also in the United States. The participation of the German aircraft industry created 10 000 jobs beyond the rhine, which depend directly or indirectly on A380. When the production passes to eight units per month, this figure could easily reach the 40 000. The analysts estimate that in the United States, 100 000 employment will be directly from the European large-carrier. Approximately half of the 149 already ordered specimens will fly with American engines, which makes assemble to 40 % the proportion of American material in these machines", observe Die Welt.



Where did everybody go?
User currently offlineQwerty From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 383 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

That engine comes ourt of Cincy, OH, I believe. I've been to that plant, I don't think there are 100,000 employees there with all shifts.

Of course, I understand there are GE supplier jobs, etc. etc. But still even at 1 direct OH job to 4 indirect, I can see how there is a 20,000 person impact for just the powerplants in Ohio. That would be a heck of a hire up.

I could be grossly incorrect on this back-of-the-napkin analysis.


User currently offlineLongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5312 times:
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sounds snifty Big grin USA USA! Big grin and EU EU!

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5294 times:

Qwerty:

You quite sure of that? The GP7200 is based in part on the GE90...which is done in Raleigh-Durham, I think.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4741 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5261 times:
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its not just the engines, Honeywell, Goodrich and many others are involved. Alcoa supposedly started a whole new factory to supply the plane!

100,000 maybe a little excessive, but its still very significant

large commercial jetliners are a global undertaking these days. the 7e7 will be more than half non American for sure as Japan has 35%, Italy 12% and that doesn't even include the engines, if its a RR one very little of that comes from RR in Indiana (nee Allison), its nearly all from the UK or Europe and a little from Japan. Various French/Euro companies are responsible for a variety of other systems and the whole freaking CAD system Boeing will use and make all its suppliers use is a Dassault/ IBM France product!


User currently offlineDaedaeg From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5250 times:

That engine comes ourt of Cincy, OH, I believe. I've been to that plant, I don't think there are 100,000 employees there with all shifts.

Of course, I understand there are GE supplier jobs, etc. etc. But still even at 1 direct OH job to 4 indirect, I can see how there is a 20,000 person impact for just the powerplants in Ohio. That would be a heck of a hire up.

I could be grossly incorrect on this back-of-the-napkin analysis.


I'm sure it's not coming all from GE. There is Smith Aerospace, Goodrich, Honeywell, tons of others that i can't think of right now. 100,000 seems to be quite a lot. I wonder how they came to that number.

What is the percentage of US and EU product in the B7E7?
I dont know the figure but there are quite a few european and asian suppliers supporting the 7E7. I know Alenia Aeronautical, Fokker, Fischer, GKN, and Dassault are some of the european suppliers.




Everyday you're alive is a good day.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5206 times:

Alenia is supplying a significant portion of the fuselage of the 7E7.

There's the usual suspects. Here's a list:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/dev_team.html

N


User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5205 times:

Those jobs come from the participation in the A380 of:

GEAE
P&W
GOODRICH
ALCOA
HAMILTON SUNDSTRAND
HONEYWELL AEROSPACE
PARKER AEROSPACE
SMITH AEROSPACE
GKN
EATON
NORTHROP GRUMMAN
CRANE AEROSPACE
CYTEC
............


Not so bad for US !

Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6484 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

It should be said that Rolls-Royce has significant operations in Indianapolis (what used to be Allison), so large chunks of the Trent come from there.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

Trex8

Does it means that the B7E7 is not more American than the A380?? (based on those proportions)

Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineDaedaeg From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 657 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5166 times:

It should be said that Rolls-Royce has significant operations in Indianapolis (what used to be Allison), so large chunks of the Trent come from there
Yeah, a lot of people dont realise that. They assume it's all coming from Britain. A buddy of mine works there.



Everyday you're alive is a good day.
User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5139 times:

Daedaeg,

Are you sure Dassault is a supplier of the B7E7?

Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineWhitehatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

It should be said that Rolls-Royce has significant operations in Indianapolis (what used to be Allison), so large chunks of the Trent come from there.

RR USA builds more engines than any other production unit in the Rolls Royce group. The American business has been a good investment. Especially with so many RB211 engines in use in the USA.

Are you sure Dassault is a supplier of the B7E7?

Dassault supplied the software used to design the 7E7. They don't just make aircraft, but the CAD packages used for their development.

It's simply the best specialised package currently available which is why Boeing will have bought it in.

[Edited 2005-01-20 00:05:18]

User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5089 times:

Whitehatter,

You are right I forgot CATIA. Every aerospace company use this software!

Gaut

[Edited 2005-01-20 00:08:46]


«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineKtliem@yvr From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

This Website has a listing of all A380 suppliers:

http://forum.sbac.co.uk/supplychain/SupplyTreeredir.asp?Proj=9


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4741 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5044 times:
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The IN RR operation supplies very little to the Trent program -its something like maybe a single % of the components, though they are planning on increasing it. RR Germany supply far more as RR N America has pretty much stuck to providing the Allison products. Heck IHI in Japan probably supply far more of the Trent than RR America. IN do have a signifcant share of RRs share of the IAE V2500 though but the Trent has been kept pretty much in the UK.

Dassaults Catia system, marketed and more recently developed with IBM France, is the CAD software that Boeing will use to design the 7e7, and the older version was used to design the 777 also. In fact every major aerospace manufacturer using CAD uses some variation of the Dassault system ! Every 7E7 supplier will need to invest in the system so they can be part of the supply chain

It is very likely, in fact almost certain that if the A380 is "40%" American, that the 7E7 will have less American sourced content. Its an absolute certainty the Japanese - Mitusbishi, Kawaski, Fuji have 35%. Alenia and Vought have 25% and Alenias share is reportedly slightly more than half. So just of the airframe, minus engines you have at least 47.5%. That doesn't include all the various other systems that many Euro companies ahve already bagged contracts for.

Its a global economy we live in!

[Edited 2005-01-20 00:26:20]

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

I'd be a bit skeptical about assertions of jobs created that don't include man hour numbers or any time information. 100K jobs at the extremely low pay of $25000/year for 10 years comes to $25 billion. That ignores cost of materials, rent and supplier profits.

If Airbus sells 250 planes over 10 years at $200 million a pop, thats $50 billion of revenue. 40% of that is $20 billion, which is quite a bit lower than the $25 billion that doesn't include cost of materials, rent and supplier profits. I don't see 100K man-years for the lifetime of the program coming out of the A380. More likely, 100K people will work part time on some aspect of the A380. But that doesn't amount to the creation of 100K jobs.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineClipperNo1 From Germany, joined May 1999, 672 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4998 times:

I think this what all discussions should come down to.
The manufacturing of airliners is globalization coming to reality.
Forget A vs B, EU vs USA. Politicans should forget it as well. If either or both side has a successful plane, it's a win-win situation for both sides.
Maybe I'm a bit too optimistic, but I wouldn't be surprised if A and B actually even start to work together...not now maybe in 10-15yrs. Economies of scope effects would be tremendous.



"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2952 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4974 times:

A380 will certainly never reach anywhere close to 8 units per month. Maximum will be around 4 units a month translating to 48 a year which means the current backlog can be cleared out in less than three years at that rate.
Early build rates maybe high but long-term output should be one to two units per month.


User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4974 times:

Does anyone suppose that some day we would see either the merging of Airbus and Boeing (Aireing?) (Boebus?) or a joint design/manufacture of an airplane?
Remember, a few years ago no one would imagine that Daimler would buy Chrysler, that Hondas would be built in Ohio, or that Pan Am would go under. Anything is possible, I suppose.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineUlfinator From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4965 times:

Don't forget Triumph Composite Systems of Spokane

They happen to be a factory/business that Boeing sold off not to long ago

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002150648_triumph14.html


User currently offlineClipperNo1 From Germany, joined May 1999, 672 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

Remember, a few years ago no one would imagine that Daimler would buy Chrysler, that Hondas would be built in Ohio, or that Pan Am would go under. Anything is possible, I suppose.

You forgot the merger of Boeing and MD!



"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4923 times:

You forgot the merger of Boeing and MD!
ClipperNo1:
My list was not a complete one but your offering is certainly more aviation related.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineEspion007 From Denmark, joined Dec 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4912 times:

espion007: 0% gives a crap


Snakes on a Plane!
25 ERJ170 : You quite sure of that? The GP7200 is based in part on the GE90...which is done in Raleigh-Durham, I think. That would be cool if the A380 were gettin
26 Post contains images RayChuang : I hate to say this, but just about all large ticket items sold around the world have parts made from all over the world. Take for example many automob
27 Rparker537 : 2 points: 1) It's not the jobs that matter, but where the $$$ flows back to (e.g., location of shareholders) 2) You can't accurately say that x jobs a
28 Gaut : The purpose of this topic was to show, as Trex8 said, that we live in a global economy. Airbuses are not 100% European as Boeing are not 100% American
29 Milan320 : 1) It's not the jobs that matter, but where the $$$ flows back to (e.g., location of shareholders) Tell that to the folks in Wichita at Airbus, I'm su
30 Trex8 : or the guys working for Toyota, Honda etc in the US
31 LH477 : It should be noted that it may not necessarily be American. Both Honeywell and Goodrich build some part of the assemblies for Engine(Honeywell) and La
32 Post contains images Airforum : Talking about chauvinism: don't forget the dutch technology involved...the use of the j-nose, glare (Stork Aerospace) and the hundreds of miles of wir
33 Areopagus : I don't think these comparisons of American content in 7E7 vs. 380 are apples-to-apples. Yes, "Airbus claims that 50 percent of A380 procurement is fr
34 Oftwftwoab : Milan320: "It's not the jobs that matter, but where the $$$ flows back to (e.g., location of shareholders)." Yes, but the shareholders of EADS (or of
35 Buckfifty : 2) You can't accurately say that x jobs are created because the purchase of airbus planes simply replaces potential boeing purchases. So the correct c
36 Usdcaguy : I read in an article that a company owned by some former classmates of mine will be making windows for the A380. Although the plane is European and on
37 Post contains images Trex8 : >I don't see the possibility of Airbus using Everett for assembly purposes, do you? anymore than Boeing using Toulouse or Hamburg! maybe Lockheed woul
38 NumberTwelve : RayChuang: "Even though Europe claims the Airbus A380 is a European product, their chauvanism ignores the fact they still need a lot of American aeros
39 Alessandro : A380 gets parts from 4 continents if I recall right, Africa (Tunisia), Europe, North America and Asia. Any parts from South America and Australia?
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