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B6 And HP Outsourcing MX Work To Latin America  
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4471 times:

http://www.kyw1060.com/news_story_detail.cfm?newsitemid=43464

Personally, I could care less -- as long as they're keeping costs down and not compromising safety, it's fine by me.

Doesn't the work have to be done by certified mechanics? If that's the case, why would there be a problem doing it in El Salvador?




"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4454 times:

Another thank you to Bush for having more american jobs leave the country.


THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Yep, I'm sure Bush was directly involved in this.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

So, what? Every airline outsources, and there's nothing wrong with it. To B6's credit they're actually making money, and lower-cost mx is part of that success.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

He allows the tax breaks for the coporations to out source. So yes he is directly involved in it.


THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

He allows the tax breaks for the coporations to out source. So yes he is directly involved in it.

If you're talking about the tax on foreign earnings, (1) that's been in place for about 30 years, and (2) it doesn't affect this type of work. It would only apply if these companies were headquartered in foreign countries. Please, if you can, show me a place in the tax code where companies are specifically encouraged to outsource. And, show me either (1) where Bush is responsible for it, or (2) that the Democratic party was diametrically opposed to it.




"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 710 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

I personally don't care where airlines do their maintenence. But if the Democrats want to make this an issue, they should not focus on something trivial like tax breaks for companies that do this or that.

Propose a law that requires USA carriers to have all maintenence done in the USA.



Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4392 times:

Ssides,

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I am hoping for an answer too!

And honestly, sometimes they way we act here in the States, it's a reality check when you go to a place like El Salvador and see people that really appreciate the fact they have a job.

GreatChecko

[Edited 2005-01-21 22:42:14]


"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4350 times:

This was on the front page of the WSJ today. I skimmed the article. The article states that faulty outsourced MX caused a commuter plane crash in the Carolinas a few years ago. Does any one know about this one? I think this could be a developing problem, since the FAA doesn't license MX workers from outside the US. There needs to be some more oversight here.

NWAFA: Do you honestly think increasing taxes will make companies not outsource anymore. If you think through it you will realize that they would be forced to outsource even more.



/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4248 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4342 times:

If maintenance has to be "insourced", then what about Reservations? Customer Service?


None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17439 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4329 times:

"The article states that faulty outsourced MX caused a commuter plane crash in the Carolinas a few years ago."

That was outsourced to American MX no?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1115 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4322 times:

ACAfan,

Propose a law that requires USA carriers to have all maintenence done in the USA.

Why in the world would our legislators ever contemplate ratifying a law to prohibit maintenance and repair outsourcing?

I read the article in today's Wall Street Journal about outsourcing aircraft repair and overhaul and can say the FAA as well as local aviation authorities monitor the operations of these facilities very carefully.

There is a very simple law in economics called 'arbitrage'. Repair and maintenance outsourcing is simply a clear manifestation of the economic incentives created by discrepancies [economists would call it inefficiencies] in the labor market.

What benefit would it serve our society to prohibit an outsourcing of aircraft repair and maintenance? It is obvious who would be hurt by the ratification of such a short-sighted law; the millions upon millions of our fellow traveling Americans.


User currently offlineZone1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1035 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

I'm not saying that all maintenance must be insourced but there needs to be some more oversight over what is going on in El Salvador with these planes.


/// U N I T E D
User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

If we are talking about the Air Midwest crash in Charlotte, from what I am reading the MX was outsourced to Raytheon. The accident report cites improper rigging of the elevator as one of the causes for the crash.

I'm still looking for info on this however.

GreatChecko



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6576 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4302 times:
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The article states that faulty outsourced MX caused a commuter plane crash in the Carolinas a few years ago.

That is dumb reasoning. I mean how many crashes have been caused after insourced MX?..

What would happen if "Hanes" didnt outsource? How much would you be paying for your underwear? 10 or 20 times? Could you afford $20 boxers?

Why would you want your countries resorces to go to underwear production, when you can put them to better use in high tech companies?

Granted, aircarft MX is step above underware, so its up to the country to train these mechanics that are loosing their jobs to the "next" level and shed mediocre jobs somewhere where they are not mediocre.

The failure of the country is not to keep ahead of the curve and expect to continue economic world leadership by maintaing "cottage industries"

http://www.aeroman.taca.com/intro.html

BTW.. I believe that Aeroman has representative of both aircraft manufacturers in their offices at all times..

And think about it.. they cant affort not to be 100% compliant with US regulations.. if they are not then B6 and AW would not send their planes there anymore, and loose their meal ticket.

[Edited 2005-01-21 23:08:08]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

I'm not getting into the politics of this issue. My concern about this is a very simple one:

Is this safe? Are genuine parts being used? Is someone monitoring work to insure it is up to standards?

I'm all for saving money, but not at the price of safety.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offline737doctor From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1332 posts, RR: 39
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

If we are talking about the Air Midwest crash in Charlotte, from what I am reading the MX was outsourced to Raytheon. The accident report cites improper rigging of the elevator as one of the causes for the crash.

I'm still looking for info on this however.


Here:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/tech_ops/read.main/75074/6/

I'm not going to give my opinion again, I made my opinion known throughout that discussion.




Patrick Bateman is my hero.
User currently offlinePhilsquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4254 times:

The thing to remember about foreign repair shops is they have to be FAA certified. The certification criteria is just the same as it would be if they were in the US.

In addition, if a carrier wants to use a foreign repair shop, FAA approval is needed. Part of the approval process includes the carrier having an onsite representative present for the duration of the maintenance.

The concept of using foreign repair shops isn't something new at all. It has been going on for quite some time. LH, NWA, UPS, FEDEX are among just a few of the carriers who use foreign repair shops.


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4248 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4245 times:

I believe shoddy MX was also an issue in the Alaskan Airlines crash back in 2000....

The point is: there is no point to banning outsourced maintenance.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineUA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

First of all, does every thread have to turn into politics????? I know I have been guilty of this myself, but I'm sick of how often things have to turn political on this forum. Can't we all agree that people in the US (where I am a citizen) ALL have the best interests of the country in mind, but merely disagree on the methods?

As to the topic at hand, it's being done by most airlines now, and has been for some time. It's a result of the global economy, and like it or not, it is a reality. I have no doubt that mechanics in El Salvador can do a superb job on maintaining aircraft. As long as this can be done, it's not going to stop.

Ssides, liberalism is not totalitarianism with a human face, just a method of achieving goals that is different from yours.

Can the political bashing stop, please!!!!!!!!!!


User currently offlineHPA320 From Mexico, joined Jul 2004, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

Guys, just take a look at many of the souvenirs for Bush's second term.

I was yesterday in the USA and saw a documentry in FOX where they were showing that all baseball hats, T-shirts, mugs, etc.

EVERYTHING WAS MADE IN CHINA!!!!!  Wow!

It seems that many manufacturers and many jobs have moved out of the USA.

So...






America West Airlines. 1983-2005. The Journey Continues...
User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1645 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4197 times:
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The probable cause of the Air Midwest crash was determined to be by the mis rigging of the elevator by Raytheon who Air Midwest outsourced the maintenance to.

Raytheon also is the manufacturer of the airplane involved, a Beech 1900 and the maintenance was done by one of their divisions. You would think that the maintenance being outsourced to the manufacturer with access to all their resources would have at least trained their personnel better.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

What would happen if "Hanes" didnt outsource? How much would you be paying for your underwear? 10 or 20 times? Could you afford $20 boxers?

The price of boxers has changed little if any since Hanes and others began to outsource. The difference is, they can make more competitive bids for super-chains like WalMart, and both can make more money in the process. The end savings to the customer is in the range of $.10 per unit (aka nothing)

He allows the tax breaks for the coporations to out source. So yes he is directly involved in it.

1. He didn't

2. The U.S. stands whole-heartedly for capitalism, an economic theory based on exploting the cheapest labor and materials to create a product that can be marketed and sold for the highest amount. It's macabre, but what's more "American" than outsourcing?

Topic: B6 And HP Outsourcing MX Work To Latin America

Does outsourcing labor really cut cost substantially? Yes it eliminates much of the overhead necessary for heavy overhauls, but the maintenace contractor must squeeze their own profit out of the deal too.

If you have a fleet of 200+ aircraft, which B6 will have at some point, you will have enough aircraft in heavy maintenance at any given point that I would be very suprised if it's more economical to contract it all out... If it were a small fleet, like 30 aircraft, I could see the point but airlines like WN have aircraft in heavy checks everyday...


User currently offlineJetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1645 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4179 times:
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I believe that Southwest outsources the major D inspection.

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

The price of boxers has changed little if any since Hanes and others began to outsource. The difference is, they can make more competitive bids for super-chains like WalMart, and both can make more money in the process. The end savings to the customer is in the range of $.10 per unit (aka nothing)


Retailers like Wal-Mart operate on profit margins hovering around 2-3%. Outsourcing is the lifeblood of their low prices.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
25 737doctor : I believe that Southwest outsources the major D inspection. We do 1/4D, 1/2D and 5Y checks in-house. Skin lap mods, paint and full D checks are outsou
26 Post contains links DfwRevolution : I believe that Southwest outsources the major D inspection. I'm pretty sure they do- The higher level of maintenance that our Mechanics perform is kno
27 737doctor : Yeah don't mind me....I just work here.
28 Cubsrule : Just to say it explicitly... The outsourced m/x on US 5481 was performed at HTS. Although some might consider West Virginia another country, I don't t
29 Atmx2000 : Another thank you to Bush for having more american jobs leave the country. Why don't you ask B6's big investor George Soros, bankroller of many anti-B
30 Lightsaber : Taking the politics out of the outsourcing issue, the reality of the market is that B6 simply doesn't yet have the economies of scale to do maintenanc
31 OPNLguy : >>>I read the article in today's Wall Street Journal about outsourcing aircraft repair and overhaul and can say the FAA as well as local aviation auth
32 Wbmech : Doesn't the work have to be done by certified mechanics? If that's the case, why would there be a problem doing it in El Salvador? This is where the p
33 Flyabunch : Taca, is a major operator of 320 series aircraft. The work is being done at their headquarters in El Salvador. I travel their often on business and I
34 Smcmac32msn : I believe shoddy MX was also an issue in the Alaskan Airlines crash back in 2000.... Not so much MX's fault as it was the design of the part (pump typ
35 Flyboyaz : Whatever works is fine with me, though it seems like a long ways to send a plane to get fixed!! We often have them stop in TUS on the way back to clea
36 GMUAirbusA320 : "Another thank you to Bush for having more american jobs leave the country." I hate GWB as much as the next guy but he doesn't have anything to do wit
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