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Can Anyone Compete With Southwest?  
User currently offlineFRA2DTW From Germany, joined Feb 2004, 322 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5133 times:

They "own" more major U.S. airports than any other carrier and are continuing to aggressively expand. Their brand is extremely strong and their unique business model has no rival - one type fleet, coach only seating, simple pricing, amazing efficiencies, great corporate culture, hedged fuel, non-excessive compensation for their executives, no pension worries, and NO DEBT. They are the only pricing power in the U.S. today. Their codesharing with ATA opens up even more markets to them, incl. Hawaii and perhaps even Europe down the road.

Can anyone slow down their drive to become America's pre-eminent airline? They already board more pax than anyone else. AA and NW used to defend their turf voraciously when threatened but have been defanged. Liquidation of US/UAL will not help because others, both legacy and LCC, will fill the void. Before SW marginalizes every other carrier, what strategy need the others to implement? Consolidation (NW/CO, AA/DL), more bankruptcies, greater foreign ownership, more codesharing, dumping pensions, attacking scope? How are the airline CEOs seeing the future while worrying about SW?

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6761 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5114 times:

I think HP is doing well with WN at PHX and LAS.. so I think they are competing with WN very well.. other than that.. I don't know...


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5106 times:

It sure doesn't look like anyone can right now. Fuel prices are killing everyone. B6 may be able to give them a run for there money but only after they build up their fleet and expand. WN has 400 planes and keeps them in the air better than anyone. So it will be quite a while before B6 can rival them. Right now WN is king of the mountain.

User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

I think that you have a distorted view of WN (Not SW) They are not the #1 airline in the US! AA is, then UA, then CO! Most airlines compete with WN in some sort of way. WN would never be able to take over the US airline industry they just have a very nice nitch and they are taking advantage of that and will continue to do that. I don't think that WN will fly to Europe that would go against their business plan and if they started to break away from being the low cost nitch airline they will be just another LCC and will have to same problems as the rest of them. WN has a great business going and they will keep it that way.


/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4986 times:

How do you measure Number one?
Most routes?
Most planes?
Most cities served?
Most $$$$?
Most Pax carried?
Most employees?

Now to answer the lead question, no one will compete with Southwest until the work rules are equalized. Can you see a pilot for NW or a Mechanic for USAir loading bags to expedite a departure? And we know why...not because they don' want to help and give it the team effort, its because of union rules agreed to the union and management under negotiations. When the field is level to Southwest playing rules, then a carrier can compete.
safe

[Edited 2005-01-23 22:57:50]

[Edited 2005-01-23 22:58:38]


If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4992 times:

WN has debt - their 12/31/03 balance sheet (it's on their website) shows just over $1.3 billion in long-term debt. A quick glance at their 2003 Annual Report shows references to both unsecured debt and Aircraft Secured Notes.

Don't get me wrong, when you have $5 billion in stockholder equity against $1.3 billion in long-term debt, that's excellent, and gives them a lot of maneouvering room other carriers just don't have. But it is incorrect to say they have "NO DEBT."

(One side point - I know it's popular to bash executive compensation, but if you look at other industries, most exectives who are responsible for companies the same size as the "legacy carriers" (measured by assets, employees, or sales) make more than their airline counterparts. Executive compensation is set by the market, just like any other pay scale.)

WN has weaknesses, too: their brand isn't as strong as you might think, in the same way as Wal-Mart's brand is "strong" in terms of name recognition, but doesn't connotate quality. (I've used the "WN=WalMart, B6=Target" analogy many times.) The "737 Only" fleet helps in terms of keeping expense down, but limits their ability to enter some smaller markets that would offer good connection feed (say, FAT-LAS) - there isn't enough demand to offer several 737s per day to get the efficiencies the WN model calls for...they could use fewer 737 flights, or more flights with smaller A/C, but not both. Their airport choices in the Northeast limit code-sharing opportunities for destinations outside North America.

More tellingly, they've lacked imagination in the past, or have maybe been too conservative, which causes them to miss opportunities. They could have entered JFK, for example. Also, there are some US-Canada routes they could have entered easily and would probably dominate by now (for example, YVR-LAX, YYZ-FLL, YYZ-TPA.) Now, with WestJet, Jetsgo, and CanJet coming south, the moment's been lost. (The ATA deal and their more aggressive moves in Pennsylvania might be a sign of change here, though.)

And how many major airports do they really "own"? Sure, they "own" Midway and DAL, but so what? Those are secondary airports in multiple-airport markets. They "own" Manchester and Islip. Okay, that's all well and good, but again these are secondary airports. There's good money to be made here, particularly at ISP, but they have limitations as well.

WN does what they do very, very well, but they haven't proven they can do anything else effectively - they're something of a "johnny one-note", again much like Wal-Mart. (It's a hell of a good note, don't get me wrong! All those consecutive quarterly profits speak for themselves!) But they have yet to prove they can expand beyond their traditional business model. The ATA deal is a first step toward that, I'm curious to see how it'll work out...


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4931 times:

Has it really been so long no one remembers WN's venture into:

1) Assigned leather seating with extra legroom
2) "Innovative" meals
3) Business Class

One word: TranStar

Cheers.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineNikv69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4909 times:

AA better be careful. With B6 growing the way they are AA may be in big trouble in 3 or 4 years. As it is the only thing keeping AA going is their biz pax.
WN will always be a second class carrier flying into smaller cities but making money and keeping their pax happy. B6 is poised to become the big fish in 5 years or so.


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4878 times:

Your analogy may be right on track, but why did you single out AA in your post?
AA and Southwest compete in Dallas and Chicago but at different airports. Of all the airlines in the country I am curious why AA?
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineSWAFA30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

But they have yet to prove they can expand beyond their traditional business model.

Well, sorta. The original business model was short-haul, high-frequency utilizing mainly secondary airports. Over the past few years that has expanded into transcon long-hauls and congested airports such as PHL.


User currently offlineJfernandez From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4861 times:

I'm confused by what you mean by "can anyone compete with Southwest"? As a pretty damn regular flier (although maybe not so much compared to all on these boards), WN has almost never even factored into a single one of the 100 or so trips I've done in the past couple of years. I've yet to fly them.

User currently offlinePaddy78 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

I would agree that Southwest poses the biggest threat to AA simply becasue AA (being the largest and most stable of the legacies right now) has the most to loose. With all thier success, planes, routes, and customers behind them, it will probably take AA a long time to see that the industry is changing at its very foundation since the numbers may not show it for a while still. At least UAL is being forced to change (whether or not they will remains to be seens), CO is already changing, and I think a lot of people at DL have had thier wakeup call now. AA, although they are still in hole from the TW fiasco and 911, is making progress towards getting the ship "back on course", which in my opinion, is really dangerous right now since nobody knows where the edge of the world is anymore.




Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2444 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

Nikv69...

"a second class carrier flying into smaller cities"? While the "second class carrier" is purely opinion and judgemental, the smaller cities comment well, its just not true and you know it...  Smile

While some of the cities they fly to are small... Phoenix, Seattle, Las Vegas, Philidelphia, Nashville, Salt Lake City, Dallas, Houston, Ft Lauderdale, Baltimore, St Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, San Diego, Los Angeles.... not what I'd call "smaller cities". Oh, woops...don't forget Chicago... small Illinois city.




You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

Can anyone slow down their drive to become America's pre-eminent airline?

I think it's important to remember that WN has no ambitions to dominate the North American market. They don't chase market share, they simply make calculated moves at expansion... their ranking as the largest domestic carrier is simply a by-product of this practice.

And how many major airports do they really "own"? Sure, they "own" Midway and DAL, but so what?

I'd argue BWI, LAS, PHX, and HOU as well... those are hardly minor airports.

But they have yet to prove they can expand beyond their traditional business model.

Their "traditional business model" has been in constant flux since Day 1. WN is always changing things and making tweaks to the system... most people (even anaylst) often give them far too little credit in this department...

One very important thing to remember is that WN constantly re-invest in their airline. Of the $85 million USD profit they made in Q4-2004, you can bet most of it will find its way to future WN infastructure. Truely, the best way to save money is to spend it. In a time of post-9/11 recession, WN has invested in 40 new aircraft, purchased winglets for 275 aircraft, added two new stations, continued the retrofit of new cabins, purchased a share of ATA, and begun a legal battle against the Wright Ammendment.

Meanwhile, major airlines are struggling to pay bills and are being left in the dust.

[Edited 2005-01-24 00:12:10]

User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

Isitsafenow,

See reply #3

Cactus,

I said the wrong thing, I meant smaller airports. Would a first rate carrier say no to DFW? Fly into ISP not JFK? Midway instead of O'Hare? Not fly anywhere but the USA? WN is great at what they do, but when you boil it down they are a second rate carrier and that is why you pay so little to fly them. Bare bones prices for bare bone service.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4775 times:

WN is great at what they do, but when you boil it down they are a second rate carrier and that is why you pay so little to fly them. Bare bones prices for bare bone service.

"And the meek shall inherit the Earth" - God.

Would a first rate carrier say no to DFW?

Eh I dunno... jetBlue turned DFW down, and we all now Delta pulled their ejection seat and bailed out... it really isn't that great of an airport  Big grin


User currently offlinePaddy78 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

What!?? WN's strategy is not based on being a second class carrier, quite the opposite. Flying into smaller airports is one hell of a sneaky tactic and you see similar things in the business world all the time. I live less than a mile from a major mall, is the Walmart in the mall? No, its right across the street. Is there a Sonic in the food court, no, its across the parking lot. Do people who would go to the mall still go to the Walmart and the Sonic? You bet, they are clogged with customers who live nearby but want nothing to do with the mall because it is a royal pain to get in and out of. On top of that, I can pay 10 bucks for a CD at the Best Buy less than a mile away from the mall or pay 20 bucks for the same CD at the Sam Goody's in the mall.

WN is extremely shrewd in thier choices of stations; avoiding the fortress hubs but still tapping into the market is one of the cornerstones of their success. In many cases, this actually improves the customer's perception of thier service because it removes many of the hassle factors associated with giant airports. I worked in a small airport for my entire career, and let me tell you, with only a few exceptions people like it a lot better than going to the super-hub less than 70 miles away. Even people who live in that city make the drive down here because they know it will be a breeze to get through, very low stress, and planes are ontime a lot more often (not to mention the parking is a helluva lot cheaper!). Heck, it takes more time to get through security in a hub sometimes than it does to drive to a smaller airport, check in, eat breakfast, and board your flight in a smaller airport. -especially ORD, I would take MDW over ORD any day of the week and twice on sunday.



Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

WN does what they do very, very well, but they haven't proven they can do anything else effectively - they're something of a "johnny one-note", again much like Wal-Mart.

Perhaps the legacies could learn something....Instead they are the "we are all things to all people in our quest to lead in the vaunted "market share" race". Southwest is entirely happy to come in second or third in "market share" in any market, just as long as they make a profit. The others won't do that. They want to offer first class service, and deep discount fares. Southwests strategy has been one that is very attractive to business flyers, who still fly them, and more importantly, are willing to pay the fully refundable fare. Southwest has far more passengers who paid full fare than any of the other US airlines. The other airlines now find themselves in a position of fighting for every last leisure traveller out there (in the form of loss leader fares) and still hope to be able to bend over the business passenger. Delta has a start with their "simplifares", but woe be the traveller who doesn't live in a market with LCC competion. MCI-DFW for example. LAst minute fares here used to be $870 for a round trip. Simplifares has "lowered" that to $862.90. But they only fly barbie jets on the route.

More tellingly, they've lacked imagination in the past

Really? They were pretty imaginative to come up with the business plan that they did, and more importantly, stuck with. Everybody and their dog said that NOBODY would fly an airline that didn't have assigned seats, meals or first class. Yet they DO lead the US market in passengers carried.

As far as WN=Walmart B6=Target analogy...the only difference is TV sets. Period.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Sure WN has debt. In fact WN has $1.7 billion in long term debt as of their last quarterly report, and $1.3 billion in liquid assets. That is a $370 million increase in debt, and a $565 million decrease in liquid assets in a year. However, you will see that over the previous 12 months they added $1.4 billion in flight assets. In other words, they added almost as much in flight assets in a year as JetBlue has total. Oh yeah, they also invested in ATA. I think it is fair to say, that WN is doing a good job managing their debt, and is really only using debt to finance capacity expansions and fleet replacement and search out business opportunities.

As for B6 being a "Target," it is more really a function of their new fleet, and the technologies available at the time. By the time WN starts the introduction of the 737NG successor, B6 may have lost the advantages that they gained by being late to the game. However, it won't matter unless they are competing head to head.

Midway may be a "secondary" airport for Chicago, in the sense that it is smaller major airport and is a domestic airport, but it really is irrelevent given that for a large number of people in the greater Chicago area, especially in the south, it is far more accessible.

[Edited 2005-01-24 00:55:35]


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2444 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

DfwRevolution... "and the meek shall inherit the Earth.." I love it...

I don't remember anyone ever mentioning this, but for the first six months of 2004, Southwest was number 1 in domestic enplanements. They carried 39,842,391 people. Not bad for a "second class" carrier. I'm assuming y'all consider United to be a "first class" carrier... they boarded 29,129,969 people domestically. American did better at 36,210,392 domestically. Now don't tell me that these first class carriers carried x number of international passengers. That's comparing apples and oranges.

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2004/bts024_04/html/bts024_04.html

That's all I'm going to say in this thread I think. These threads come up every couple of days or weeks, and its always the same people throwing out the exact same opinions. No one is going to win, no one is going to lose.



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16856 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Jfernandez, you live in NYC?. Would WN be more of a choice for you if they flew to LGA, EWR, or JFK?..

"NIKV69

I said the wrong thing, I meant smaller airports. Would a first rate carrier say no to DFW? Fly into ISP not JFK? Midway instead of O'Hare? Not fly anywhere but the USA?".

We would then have to lump Jetblue in there because they avoid the World Class Airport that serves Los Angeles (LAX) for a small airport in Long Beach, B6 also avoids the airport in San Francisco for the one in Oakland.

One thing I read which I think is going to be very accurate, eventually 60% of all Domestic travel will be on LCCs (B6, WN, F9, FL etc..). Leaving the surviving legacy carriers to serve key business routes, fortress hubs and International markets.







Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

As for B6 being a "Target," it is more really a function of their new fleet, and the technologies available at the time.

Actually... I suspect if you take a weighted average of WN's 73G fleet versus B6 A320 fleet, the WN fleet would be younger. Sorry I don't have the time to calculate it exactly, but I did a fermi equation in my head, and WN should have the younger fleet...

I don't consider B6 fleet to be more advanced because it offers IFE. The B6 PTV set-up is very heavy, and has a noticible (downward) impact on the aircraft's performance.

WN has said several times they always keep an eye on IFE options, and this could turn out to be a coup. The FAA is on the verge of certifying airbone wireless products (including WiFi) so by waiting, WN could take advantage of a much more modern, easy to install, lighter, and lower-maintenance IFE solution...


User currently offlineZOTAN From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

B6 would never compete with Southwest. Herb is kind of a role model to Neeleman, and he never wants to compete with him.

User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Southwest is the carrier of choice in MCI, SAT, LAS,and Number two in TPA.
That says alot about a "second rate" carrier doesn't it? I would ask our friends in Chicago look this up. How many people did UA and AA board last year and how many people did Southwest board in the windy city? Im sure Southwest is third but I just want to see the boarding numbers. Also who in Chicago is third...ATA?
I'm also curious about Southwest boardings at LAX. What I am trying to show is this is no second class or second rate company. They are big-league and there are no buts about it. They did shove USAIRWAYS out of sixth place in boardings.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4577 times:

Actually... I suspect if you take a weighted average of WN's 73G fleet versus B6 A320 fleet, the WN fleet would be younger. Sorry I don't have the time to calculate it exactly, but I did a fermi equation in my head, and WN should have the younger fleet...

WN may very well have the younger average fleet age if you restrict to 73Gs, but JetBlue has the advantage of being able to equip their small, young fleet with the same equipment. WN would have a fleet with mixed offerings unless they chose to refit every aircraft.

How much weight does the B6 IFE system add per seat? If lighter options become available, WN would certainly benefit from having held off, especially with current fuel prices.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
25 ATLhomeCMH : This question bugs me at "the get-go" because it doesn't account for the fact that ANY airline taking a passenger away from WN on a comparable route i
26 Planespotting : I wouldn't quantify the WN= Wal Mart statement. Wal Mart doesn't selectively build their stores slowly, they put up a store wherever they see even the
27 FRA2DTW : Some excellent responses and input so far but how should the legacies respond to WN to check their growth - mostly uncontested to date - and what will
28 EMBQA : Herb is kind of a role model to Neeleman, and he never wants to compete with him Herb retired two years ago....and its business, he'd cut his throat i
29 1millionflyer : WN is the number one carrier at BNA with over 4 million of the 8 million total pax last year. They have very very good non-stops from here and trans-c
30 AeroWesty : Some excellent responses and input so far but how should the legacies respond to WN to check their growth WN is the proverbial 800-lb. gorilla. Even m
31 Post contains images Byrdluvs747 : I'd argue BWI, LAS, PHX PHX? WN does not own PHX. They may fly more of their drunk infested flights out of here than HP, but they have less gates and
32 Post contains images Mtnmanmakalu : On their routes, in a word- NO !!!
33 Boeing757/767 : Southwest can't compete with AA, NW, DL, CO, UA, etc. on international service. For that reason alone they will never factor into an international bus
34 SWALoveField : WN works for me so I give them all of my business. DFW is too far and too big. WN won't change the business model and I don't want them too. My only h
35 Mtnmanmakalu : I agree with you Boeing757/767 on the International service part, however domestically, it is tough to compete with WN on their routes. As for 1millio
36 1millionflyer : I think B6 has it right. and they are paying for maint. and have always paid for their airplanes. As long as the CASM for the E190 can be kept under 9
37 EA CO AS : I agree with the WN = Wal-Mart/B6 = Target analogy. I'd also say that if any carrier is Costco, it's Alaska Airlines. They manage to compete against t
38 Mtnmanmakalu : I think B6 has it right. and they are paying for maint. and have always paid for their airplanes. As long as the CASM for the E190 can be kept under 9
39 SWAFA30 : Herb retired two years ago.... Herb Semi-retired. He gave up his CEO and President titles...he remains Chairman of the Board. [Edited 2005-01-25 00:33
40 Willbdsp : When will WN announce cities and fares from PIT??
41 SWAFA30 : When will WN announce cities and fares from PIT?? PHL fares and schedules were announced in mid February 2004 for a May launch. I expect the same for
42 Post contains images NWADC9 : I hope there's a PIT-MCI route
43 N1120a : >They did shove USAIRWAYS out of sixth place in boardings.
44 Silver1SWA : I don't think that WN will fly to Europe that would go against their business plan and if they started to break away from being the low cost nitch air
45 Ssides : They pay below the living wage, They follow minimum wage laws in the US, like most small busineses. use sweatshop labor, define "sweatshop." try to ci
46 Post contains images DfwRevolution : First off, WN's philosophy has been to enter a market and build it up for everyone. There has been extensive study on what is called the "Southwest ef
47 AeroWesty : N1120a: I agree with everything you said in your post except one statement: WN could use its cash position to charge $150 RT on the LAX-MSY route 5 ti
48 N1120a : >They pay below the living wage, They follow minimum wage laws in the US, like most small busineses.use sweatshop labor, define "sweatshop."try to cir
49 Boeing7E7 : They'll do well until the Pacific Southwest is so congested they can't keep a schedule. Then, they are hosed.
50 N1120a : >I don't think WN would be nailing UA to the wall with a fare war on MSY-California routes, since they are appealing to two different markets entirely
51 Lightsaber : I agree with the wn=walmart/B6=target. However, I also agree with Dfwrevolution that wn bears watching due to technology transitions. There is nothing
52 Cactus739 : N102a is right... Wal Mart is deathly afraid of unions. My roommate / landlord is an assistant manager for Wal Mart (and damn well paid too). A couple
53 Iowaman : Enough with the WN rumors. "WN might get the 737-800" WN will most likely not get the 738 because it hurts the turnaround time and would require anoth
54 Tango-Bravo : Before SW marginalizes every other carrier, what strategy need the others to implement Until the legacies (and some of the LCCs) adopt most or all of
55 Cactus739 : Tango-Bravo You've mentioned your list of "Ten Don'ts" a couple times... what are they? You can email me off my profile if you don't want to post them
56 Jfernandez : STT757 Jfernandez, you live in NYC?. Would WN be more of a choice for you if they flew to LGA, EWR, or JFK?.. Don't they have some LGA and EWR coverag
57 Tango-Bravo : From Reply 53: Enough with the WN rumors Excellent post, Iowaman. While "rumors" is a good choice of words for the statements to which you reply, IMHO
58 Post contains images Malaysia : Southwest went out of business already, looks like someone won, oh wait that was SWAL in Okinawa haha
59 Post contains images N1120a : >"WN should start service to Canada, Mexico, etc." WN does not/should not fly internationally as they have plenty of dots to connect in the U.S. and f
60 Malaysia : could Independence Air compete with Southwest? haha
61 Post contains images SWAFA30 : They have IFE, it is called their Flight Attendants Big grin. If the company's future is hanging on our ability to entertain....well, let's just say I
62 Post contains images Iowaman : Excellent post, Iowaman. Thanks! That is one of my best posts so far.
63 Padcrasher : Take away Southwest fuel hedges this Quarter and they had a -5.1% loss margin. America West came in a -8%. I'll bet CO and JB beat Southwest's numbers
64 Post contains links SWAFA30 : RE: WN Fuel Hedges "Southwest is still building its fuel hedges for future years. Although the price caps are higher than those for 2004 and 2005, the
65 Padcrasher : All of the hedging at those prices was done over a year ago when you could buy futures in that range. If they're hedging now, they're hedging at $44+
66 Post contains images N1120a : >If the company's future is hanging on our ability to entertain....well, let's just say I hope there is a substantial market for second-hand 737s.
67 NWDC10 : QX is a very strong airline to compete against WN. Robert NWDC10
68 Padcrasher : An example. Airtran today posted 4Q finacials. They broke even and as fare as I know the did not hedge. That's a 5% greater margin than Southwest.
69 Byrdluvs747 : HP has been competing with WN for years. Yet somehow it's written that noone can compete with them.
70 Iowaman : An example. Airtran today posted 4Q finacials. They broke even and as fare as I know the did not hedge. That's a 5% greater margin than Southwest. Air
71 Malaysia : Can AK compete with WN? mmm copy cat
72 Post contains images Cactus739 : Why would AirAsia (AK) compete with WN?
73 SendMEtoLAS : WN gets more than it's share of competition at most (if not all) of the markets it services direct and non-stop. The bad part of the whole situation i
74 N1120a : >The bad part of the whole situation is everyone else is loosing their ass matching fares. I couldn't sum the current environment up much better.
75 RayChuang : I think WN (Southwest) is still doing well because of these factors: 1. Their 737-300/500/700 fleet is reasonably fuel efficient. 2. Because they fly
76 Boeing7E7 : With the right aircraft in a two class configuration, quality service and the right hub(s) with a new carrier's employee pay structure and new aircraf
77 Tango-Bravo : Cactus739 writes (reply 55), "Tango-Bravo: You've mentioned your list of 'Ten Don'ts' a couple times... What are they?" Because you asked, here they a
78 Ltbewr : The only ones whom can compete with WN are: 1)Those airlines like Frontier and Jet Blue that serve those airports or metro areas that WN won't per the
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