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Two IB A340 In GIG?  
User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2388 times:

Hey guys,

Yesterday around 18:00h I was at GIG in my way home from a wonderful holiday in Rio and I had the impression that I saw two IB A340 at GIG. Is that true?

I imagined that one of them was doing MAD-GIG-MAD and the second one MAD-GIG-MVD-GIG-MAD. Can someone confirm it to me?

Additionally, I saw a B737 from LAB at GIG. This airplane had only the letters LAB written in blue and nothing more. Is this airplane new in the LAB fleet?

By the way, in my flights GRU-GIG (GOL - 1796) and GIG-GRU (GOL - 1797) there were more Argentineans then Brazilians on board. All of them were connecting with GRU-EZE flight. GOL is doing a very good job in this route!!!!

Hugs,

EMB195ER

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

EMB195ER:

You're right. 3 x week IB A340 to MVD makes a technical stop-over in GIG because the runaway in MVD is too short. The IB flight to MVD only stops in GIG on the way to MVD, the way back it makes the route nonstop. IB does not have 5th freedom right for this flight GIG-MVD.

IB also operates 5 x week MAD-GIG with the A340-300 and seasonally A340-600. So you saw both IB flights together in GIG...lucky you!

I saw a B737 from LAB at GIG

You're correct. LB is operating a new flight CNF-GIG-VVI with the 737. CNF is a new LB destination in Brazil. LB operates in Brazil to GRU, GIG, CNF and MAO. Recently it has upgraded its flights VVI-MAO-MIA to the B767.

This is the bird you're talking about:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bernardo Andrade



LB only 737 (CP-2391) was origianlly with TAP (until 1999!)

there were more Argentineans then Brazilians on board. All of them were connecting with GRU-EZE flight. GOL is doing a very good job in this route!!!!

No wonder, GOL is doing an excellent job! Just to remind you that GOL is now oeprating NVT-EZE as well.

Rgs,




User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

Hardi,

LAB still has a has non-stop flight to GRU, right?

And how about MAO, GIG, and CNF? Daily too?

Hugs,

EMB195ER


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

3 x week IB A340 to MVD makes a technical stop-over in GIG because the runaway in MVD is too short. The IB flight to MVD only stops in GIG on the way to MVD, the way back it makes the route nonstop.

I think you mean the opposite--it can go nonstop to MVD, because landing on the runway there is no problem. The more difficult part is taking off, so the tech stop would be on the way back to MAD--in other words, it would take off with a lighter fuel load from MVD, then top off at GIG for the long flight across the ocean. Also, the MAD-MVD flight operates overnight, so it wouldn't have been in GIG in the evening--however, the MVD-MAD flight leaves in the afternoon, so 1800h would be about right.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2259 times:

Ola, EMB195ER:

LB 2005 timetable for Brazil is operating as follows:

VVI-GRU, daily, B727
VVI-MAO-MIA, 3 x week, B767-300
VVI-GIG-CNF, 2 x week, B737

LB has 5th freedom rights on the route MAO-MIA, which is a popular flight for cargo and US tourists to the Amazon, with attractive fares!

Other flights Bolivia-Brazil are:

Aerosur: GRU-VVI-CBB-LPB, daily, B727
RG: GRU-VVI-LPB, daily, B737

Rgs,


[Edited 2005-01-26 15:11:16]

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

FoxBravo:

Tks for the correction: IB A340 MAD-MVD makes the stop-over in GIG on the way back to MAD.

Rgs,


User currently offlineEMB195ER From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 254 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

Oi Hardi,

Actually, when landing at GRU yesterday I saw the Aerosur B727 at GRU.

Why are they still using the B727 to GRU? In my opinion they should replace it to a better airplane, like the B737.

Isn't GRU a better route then CNF-GIG???

Hugs,

EMB195ER


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Tudo bem?

LB has many other destinations in their network. They use the B737 5 x week to MEX. It makes sense since MEX is a much longer flight than GRU or EZE. Since LB does not fly daily to MEX, they can use the B737 to GIG-CNF twice a week.

LB's B767 is dedicated to MIA and MAO.

Rgs,


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Hello Hardiwv!!

I used to fly LB all the time when my family lived in La Paz in the mid-80's. I was just a boy we would fly around S.America, EZE, SCL, LIM, CUZ, PTY [but mostly EZE] on their 727's and 707's.

BTW, do you know whether MVD will extend its runway, permitting IB to fly nonstop MVD-MAD? Any clue whether this is related to MVD's new terminal project?

Finally, does anyone know what new international destinations G3 has planned? I take it they now fly GRU-EZE, NVT-EZE and will start GRU-VVI soon [will it be a daily?]. I am guessing they must be looking at MVD and maybe ASU, SCL, PDP [seasonal] and even LIM...


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

Hi, Pdpsol:

does anyone know what new international destinations G3 has planned

G3's CEO, Mr. Constantino, stated that GRU-CGR-VVI (daily with the 737NG) will start by July/05. Next destinations in the list are: HAV, MVD and SCL. G3 has applied for HAV and the Department of Civil Aviation has to make a decision between G3 and RG (both have filled application for HAV). I think that G3 will be landing in MVD be the end of the year, ready for the summer traffic!

do you know whether MVD will extend its runway, permitting IB to fly nonstop MVD-MAD? Any clue whether this is related to MVD's new terminal project?

The information I have is that one runway was extended from 1,700 to 2,250 m and the other one will be extended to 3,200 m (about 100 m shorter than EZE), and this I assume will allow for IB to fly nonstop MAD-MVD! I'm not 100% sure on this information, any feedback would be welcome.

Rgs,
Hardi


User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

BTW, do you know whether MVD will extend its runway, permitting IB to fly nonstop MVD-MAD? Any clue whether this is related to MVD's new terminal project?

As far as I know Carrasco's Masterplan includes a runway expansion, therefore making possible non-stop flights to Europe with fully loaded aircraft. The new owner, which I have heard has some relation with Argentina's AA2000, wants Montevideo to become an important regional hub with important overseas connections. If they really want to achieve this goal a larger runway is a big must.

Finally, does anyone know what new international destinations G3 has planned? I take it they now fly GRU-EZE, NVT-EZE and will start GRU-VVI soon [will it be a daily?]. I am guessing they must be looking at MVD and maybe ASU, SCL, PDP [seasonal] and even LIM...

Although I know Gol's plans as much as ancient Aramaic, I believe those cities you mention might be interesting, yet I would be quite skeptical about it.

Asunción could be a good niche, as Varig and TAM offer horrendous prices, the latter through its local TAM Mercosur branch, taking advantage of their monopoly. Nevertheless should they ever start flying to ASU, I see them continuing onwards Córdoba, just like Varig does. Maybe we could even see a GRU-ASU-VVI, as second frequency to Santa Cruz de la Sierra if GRU-VVI works well.

Punta del Este is always a cashcow during the summer months, and Pluna only operates a weekly service from São Paulo on Sundays. I have always wondered why they don't upgrade frequencies on GRU-PDP - there are thousands of (rich) Brazilians, mainly from São Paulo and Porto Alegre, that spend their summer holidays in the Uruguayan resort. Nevertheless authorities in Uruguay seem to be very conservative regarding flight rights, thus making it very difficult to get the authorisation for GRU-PDP. This distrust can also be extended to GRU-MVD, Pluna's biggest income route, served up to 6 times daily with a mixture of 737 and 757. However, apparently Gol managed to get the bloody rights for Montevideo.

Santiago de Chile seems to be interesting, as Varig, TAM and LAN have proven. What calls my attention is the fact that GRU-SCL with turn-arounds takes about 10 hours, which is quite a lot for a low-cost carrier. The same goes to Lima and Bogotá, though both destinations have been rumoured to be targetted by Gol.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Hardiwv and Marambio,

Hey guys, thanks for the info, very interesting!

I had no idea PU was only serving PDP-GRU once a month, seems like a complete waste to me! Like you mentiond, the traffic potential is REALLY there.

On a more general theme, I believe G3 can totally CLEAN UP on some of these important regional routes that have been cash cows for AR, RG, JJ, PU etc. for years and years. Of course, this is assuming G3 can truly offer low-cost fares that are significantly below those offered by the traditional incumbent carriers. I mean, I have the impression that, while G3 is cheaper than the competition, its fares are simply o.k., nothing SPECTACULAR.

I guess the difference [and please correct me if I am wrong] relates to the type of fares offered by G3 vis-a-vis the 'traditionals'. Sure, AR has great fares to SCL, MVD and GRU, but perhaps those fares are only 'special' offers, whereas G3 always has great deals; sort of like the 'Wal-Mart of the skies', like WN and B6 here in the US.

With G3 on the scene, as well as the new JJ-sponsored UE in a much smaller way, we could see a revolution in regional civil aviation, with much greater traffic, even more frequencies, and larger facilities.

I, for one, am very excited about the growth of regional air traffic in the s. cone...


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

Welcome back & Happy New Year Marambio!

Punta is indeed a magnet for rich Brazilians from both São Paolo and Rio Grande do Sul provinces (esp. Porto Alegre & Pelotas). This summer they are contributing a great deal to the resort's impressive boom, together with the Argentines. Both LA NACION and EL PAIS said this is Uruguay's best temporada since 1999, and a much needed one considering the blow dealt to the Uruguayan economy by the Argentine disaster just 3 years ago.

PDP:

With G3 on the scene, as well as the new JJ-sponsored UE in a much smaller way, we could see a revolution in regional civil aviation, with much greater traffic, even more frequencies, and larger facilities.

I wouldn't get your hopes up about Uair. Although they have finally linked AEP with MVD and PDP (since December 29, the anniversary of their creation in 2003), fares are ridiculous. On a good day, I found US$170 return between AEP and PDP, but the US$210-215 region seems more common. Their schedules also show that most of their flights are at dawn or late at night. I see Pluna as the winner in all of this, offering return fares for as low as US$73, together with a flexible cancellation policy. It's also good to see American Falcon back in PDP, but unfortunately they are suffering from a chronic aircraft shortage which has resulted/is resulting in the last-minute cancellation of many flights...

I think that in spite of this wonderful "competition" on the AEP-PDP route, ultimately passengers will all flock back to the "tried and tested" options, AR and PU, as no one else seems able to live up to their promises for very long, if at all (enter A4?). Aerovip came close, and provided almost 5 years of serious competition, but now it looks like their lights are out for good...

Saludos!

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

Very interesting posts!!

I had no idea PU was only serving PDP-GRU once a month

Just a small correction: PU/RG serve GRU-PDP nonstop twice a week (Sundays and Thursdays) with the 737. However, there is considerable amount of charter flights during the summer from both GRU and POA to PDP. Still, I also see the potential for more scheduled flights to PDP, I dont know why this lack of service. Maybe we could see UAIR operating on this market?

I guess the difference [and please correct me if I am wrong] relates to the type of fares offered by G3 vis-a-vis the 'traditionals'.

You're right. I dont think GOL is a "traditional" LCC. I would compare G3 more to B6. G3 even gives free food on board (okay, only a cereal bar and a drink!). However, overall G3 fares to EZE have been much lower than competition. G3 was selling NVT-EZE for USD60, while competition (JJ and RG) were selling for USD180...Also, once in a while, G3 comes with super internet promotionals, e.g. any destination for R$1 (USD 0.37 cents!!!!!!!!).

Rgs,


User currently offlineLima From Argentina, joined May 1999, 1122 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2055 times:

About two years ago Varig was doing some charters to carry tourist that stayed at the Conrad hotel.

Look at these 2002 pictures. Two MD11 operating at Punta del Este!

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=16235

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=16237

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=16242

Also TAM:

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=13841


Does anyone know how long is the runway?

Greetings,

Lima




User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Nice pictures! Here is adirect link to them:

http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=16235
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=16237
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=16242
http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=13841

I didn't know PDP was that big with Brazilians, 2 MD-11s!!

Cheers,



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBox37 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

Reading the Brazilian site Jetsite I came across an interview with Jorge Neves
Pluna's CEO, very interesting, especially if read between the lines

www.jetsite.com.br/2004/gente.asp

Box


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1936 times:

Box37,

A very interesting interview with PU's CEO, Jorge Neves [formerly with RG's ground handling business, SATA]. I was especially interested in his comments regarding the need for expanding the regional civil aviation market via improved socio-economic conditions. I also like his reaction to Jetsite's question of whether PU would ever become an Embraer client and his coy answer expressing praise for their aircraft and a desire for the BNDES to finance their acquisition!!

Over the next year, PU expects to:

- Lease out their remaining 732's, replacing them with 733's
- Lease another ATR-42; thrilled with the aircraft
- Lease another 763ER

Also, he does not believe UE will succeed [neither do I] and expects MVD to become an important cargo/logistics hub for the region, rather than a passenger center for regional traffic. I suspect he better have a chat with MVD's new operators!


User currently offlineBox37 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

PDP Sol:

In following the Southern Cone aviation from 5000 miles away as a hobby, I use google quite a bit and frequently come across with interesting information, the cargo remarks do not surprise me, when Puertas del Sur bid for Carrasco one of the first statements was that they were investing in cargo handling because they believed that cargo movement was going to be a very important part of the business.
They are obligated by contract to build the new terminal but if you look it only has 4 gates so I would hardly call that a passenger hub.
I agree with the point about Uair, their business plan is IMHO faulty, PU had tried Rosario and Cordoba and abandoned the route.

Box


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1910 times:

I didn't know PDP was that big with Brazilians

I'm originally from South Brazil and I know quite well that PDP is/was really fashionable, especially among the rich in Rio Grande do Sul, as stated by LVZXV. However, heavy investments and upgrades on the Brazilian NE coast - with the arrival of European charter flights - are attracting this "public" and interest in PDP has faded away recently. Now is trendy to go to one of the resorts on the NE cost. This, partially, explains the reduction in the GRU/POA-PDP traffic.

From AMS alone there are six regular weekly charter flights nonstop to NE Brazil (REC, FOR, SSA and NAT); NAT seems to be the new gem of the Scandinavians. This trend has created new upmarket hotel chains on the NE cost, leading to the establishment of many "all-inclusive Caribbean-type resorts".

PU would ever become an Embraer client and his coy answer expressing praise for their aircraft and a desire for the BNDES to finance their acquisition!!

Now everybody wants to get financing from BNDES... I have no doubt that RG would be first in line...

Anyway, PU is one of the few good things which are left from RG...

he does not believe UE will succeed [neither do I]

UE was a big mistake of JJ, which will become even more difficult to manage the day G3 arrives in MVD.

Anyway, going back to IB's MAD-MVD topic, I read this trip review which I found quite interesting:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/53005/


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1892 times:

Hi guys!

I read Howard500's trip report regarding his IB MAD-MVD experience and also thought it was very interesting!

Also, [yes, I know I have posted this before] if you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend you guys visit the website for Rafael Viñonly's architectural studio and see the computer-generated images [CGI] for the stunning MVD project. The new terminal looks amazing, with clear influences from Eero Saarinen's IAD and JFK projects:

http://www.rvapc.com/flashindex.html

I absolutely love Viñoly's work and am very proud my alma mater, The University of Chicago GSB just moved into a fantastic new facility designed by him.

PDPsol


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

Very interesting the website. Rafael Viñonly has two projects for Amsterdam and is also responsible for the Wageningen Research Centre...

Rgs,



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