Juventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2 Posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6260 times:
LAX has a more diverse scene (aircraft/airline) than any other major airport in America. One morning, about two weeks ago, I spent about three hours spotting at the LAX international terminal. A midst all the 747s, 777s, and A340s, an EL AL 767 was pushing back. That particular aircraft, was the only one that I was not paying any attention to. I also failed to notice that two Israeli security agents (or whatever they call themselves) were monitoring my activities. They called the LAX police. Two cops showed up, and after ten minutes of investigating my activities, I was told to leave the area until the EL AL aircraft was airborne. I understand Israel's difficult political situation with hostile nations, but it should not affect Americans in America.
BigOrange From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2358 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6177 times:
Unfortunately, wherever ElAl fly to you get the paranoid Israeli security forces. Usually they try to get you to move themselves, rather than calling the police.
I would suggest writing a letter of complaint to your local ElAl office. I did the same thing after an incident at Frankfurt, involving someone I was travelling with. The office in London were very apologetic and said they had no problems with photos being taken of their aircraft. In the incident at Frankfurt, the guy I was travelling with was actually taking a photo of a PIA A310, however the ElAl was in the same general direction.
Dacman From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 444 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6136 times:
El Al security does perimeter checks as well at LAX and we have spoken to them a number of times. This is done for every arrival and departure of an El Al flight so it is nothing new. The Airport Police and LAPD have parked next to us numerous times in our shooting areas when a flight arrives or departs and again we have been told it is just routine.
Since the shootings at the El Al ticket counter July 4th, 2002, security is even tighter in the Bradley Terminal when an El Al aircraft is at the gate, so I'm not surprised you were questioned.
Don't feel like you were singled out because you were spotting, just pay attention to what airlines are at the gate and if you see El Al there, just use a little common sense and go to another area until the flight departs and you won't be questioned.
I've been taking photos and watching aircraft all my life at LAX and yes things have changed greatly over the years. Take it from an LAX local, go to another location to spot, don't hang around in the Bradley Terminal to spot unless you are leaving on a flight, the Theme Restaurant is a good choice as you can see the entire airport from there.
Jsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1859 posts, RR: 17 Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6097 times:
It's not just El Al - I was questioned for photographing a North American Airlines 767 (North American operates codeshare/connecting services for El Al in the continental US).
I was actually sitting in my seat on a taxiing aircraft at DFW when I took the picture. The man in the next seat was a federal air marshal, and upon landing at our destination he held me on board the plane and made me erase all the pictures I had taken out the window.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 6021 times:
If you were doing nothing illegal, the police have no right to stop you from taking photos........if EL AL doesn't like it, thats just too bad for them.......while its easier to listen to the police to avoid further problems (which I would have done also), I definitely would have spoken my mind (very politely, of course) with the police, and possibly would have gone to the precinct and have a chat with the one in charge....
I also would have contacted El Al to let them know in a polite way what the situation is and what my rights are, and if they violate my rights, then they will hear from my attourney....
if this was Isreal, fine....but this is the United States, and NOBODY has a right to stop someone from doing something if it isnt anything illegal or causing anyone any harm..
Udo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5980 times:
Yeah yeah, these clowns have questioned me several times at LAX, too. If a guy shows up speaking broken English, with a mobile phone fixed to the ear and asking dumb questions such as "Waaaat aaarrrrr youuuuuu doooooing herre???" you can be sure it's one of these paranoid EL AL heroes. Just sucks like hell.
LSZS From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 22 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5890 times:
When I lived in Geneva I also had some problems with your FBI and local police... Clinton was doing his morning jogging near the lake, so I had to take another road with my bike !! I also asked me some questions about our freedom here in Switzerland.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4739 posts, RR: 30 Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5865 times:
Well, we are darned if we do and darned if we don't. I agree with the heightened security to some extent, and perhaps there is something we are not being told. It is quite sad that our love for aviation has turned into picture erasing and so on, but we need to be glad that security is stronger than what it was before 9/11.
EL AL is very protective, and I guess they have every right to be. Would I be upset if a Federal Air Marshall asked me to erase my pictures off of my camera? Of course! Would I respect them for making me do it? Of course. So again, darned if we do, and darned if we don't.
If we should be upset with someone, we should be upset with the terrorists who are taking our great hobby away from us. Not only that, we should be even more angered with terror hurting our passion of the industry. The great days of enjoying spotting, has turned into an uncomfortable hobby. We will never have the same freedoms again, and that is very sad!
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 9 Reply 16, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5841 times:
I'm sorry but I would not comply with a request to erase a picture. I'd make them detain me so I'd have justification to take legal action against them. I'm sure the ACLU would eat them for breakfast. I can photograph them as I see fit. There is this inconvenient thing in the constitution that guarantees freedom of the press. If ElAl can't handle it then perhaps they need to quit flying to the US. Who would miss them?
Ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12338 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5773 times:
ElAl, because of their being a critical, worldwide symbol of Israel and their political situation has to take extraordinary security measures anywhere outside of Israel. The denial of taking pictures or observing the movements of their aircraft is probably part of a long standing and reasonable security policy, so potential terrorists cannot determine certain unique security and related operational procedures or getting the identies of Israeli or other security agents. Similar situations exist around the world as to the operations of military aircraft at airports. As to spotting/observing, security people don't know who is a potential terrorist (remember Richard Reed?), and want to take the most expansive and easiest way to reduce the risks involved. While this does make it difficult for the 99.99999% of innocent observers, paranoia and a 'never again' as to terror within the USA, and elsewhere, has taken over. Just find ways to enjoy observing aircraft within reasonable rules undestanding the position of the airport authorities.
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5752 times:
I for one don't play on giving up my constitutional rights for the one in a hundred million chance of something happening. Too bad for ElAl. If you want to operate in the US then you go by our laws and our constitution.
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 9 Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5703 times:
All I have to say is "dont bring your problems here and expect me to give up my guaranteed freedoms because you have issues back home with the way you treat your people and others. Your problem. Not mine."
Boeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 56 Reply 21, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5704 times:
Tough luck with LA Polica dept. Although I find it hard for them to question you for so long being you were not breaking any laws. Yeah and as far as the ElAl ticket counter incident in July 2002 I'm sure they are even more tight on there security policies/issues.
BTW: The 767-300ER they send on FL105 does that stop @ YYZ or JFK?
Newark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 33 Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5660 times:
The denial of taking pictures or observing the movements of their aircraft is probably part of a long standing and reasonable security policy, so potential terrorists cannot determine certain unique security and related operational procedures or getting the identies of Israeli or other security agents
Good for them. I'll take all the pictures of their planes I want from public property. I may even take a few notes on their operations while I'm at it. They're nothing more than a damn airline, and they surely don't dictate to me what I do and what I take pictures of. They can take their policies and shove them you-know-where. I don't have to follow their illogical rules unless I am on their planes or on their property.
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4368 posts, RR: 9 Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5631 times:
It really has nothing to do with security. There is nothing special about an ELAL jet. They all load and unload the same. They use the same runways and the same jetways. They just want to show you that the US government will let them control you.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
25 Chrisjake: flight 105/106 stops at YYZ. i spent about 6 hours spotting from Imperial Hill on Jan 16. included in that time frame was the arrival and departure of
26 Juventus: I love taking pictures. It is my favorite passtime. But I think I'm going to let them win. I will NOT take a picture of their stupid airplane.
27 Newark777: I love taking pictures. It is my favorite passtime. But I think I'm going to let them win. I will NOT take a picture of their stupid airplane. Hey, sa
28 Lindy: I have encountered MOSAD people for the very first time last October at WAW. I was at the observation deck with local photographer. We were taking pic
29 Udo: She got one big laugh from both of us, and said that we need permission on the paper from the airport authorities to take pictures. We started laughin
30 Ba319-131: I was on the car park roof of the Bradley back in december. When the ELAL turned up I thought,great now i'm going to get bothered by security,but nobo
31 BigOrange: I think we should all start taking photos of the ElAl security staff instead of the aircraft. Either that or carry a copy of the Koran and offer to le
32 Skyguy: They hang out at EWR as well, in the terminal building. They harrass other innocent passengers looking out of the window drinking coffee by asking the
33 Newark777: It seems as though they stick to the terminals at EWR, since I have never had a run-in with them outside of there. I have photographed the ElAl planes
34 Prebennorholm: In a perfect world this would not be so. Also in a perfect world there would be zero guns in the USofA. I shouldn't comment upon US politics, so let's
35 LY744: Damn, have those El Al security guards (or "MOSAD" agents, right....) you've all gotten acquainted with been shoving objects up your asses, or are you
36 APFPilot1985: No offense to anyone, but calling the EL Al security agents names and saying that they dont have any right to do what they do is just plain (plane) ig
37 Copter808: Next time you talk to a cop use words like "harrasment, civil rights" something like that. Not a good idea... I guarantee that you will NOT be intimid
38 Juventus: APFpilot1985 how many of us have visited Israel? this is what I mean. This is NOT Israel, this happened at LAX.
39 Newark777: They are doing it because they/their airplanes/their customers are from a country where the live in constant fear of suicide bombings and terrorism an
40 LY4XELD: how many of us have visited Israel? this is what I mean. This is NOT Israel, this happened at LAX Have you been there? The point is, if you were ever
41 Airlinerfreak: They were just doing their job. They dont know that you are there just to take pictures, they have to treat it as a seroius matter. Also El Al serves
42 Jacobin777: APFPilot1985......thats their problem, NOT MINE........nobody is forcing them to fly here, they are doing it on their own free will...and they will no
43 N243NW: The denial of taking pictures or observing the movements of their aircraft is probably part of a long standing and reasonable security policy It's any
44 777ER: Heck, why don't El Al just take their web-site of the internet because it could be considered a source for terrirosts.
45 Blackbird1331: I have been there. Vicariously, through the news. Throw a rock. Get hit by a sling shot. Use a sling shot. Get shot by a .45. Use a .45. Get hit by a
46 UAL747DEN: I agree that Israel does have real problems and does have real security concerns but that will have no effect on me. When that plane enters US airspac
47 Airlinerfreak: They actually do UAL747DEN as there is nothing saying that you can't reprimand a person for the security of an aircraft. They can technically make you
48 Newark777: They can technically make you to move for one since it is for the "safety" of the aircraft and the passengers on it. No, they can't. They have no auth
49 APFPilot1985: Where are you guys getting the notion that its your right to photograph someone elses property? More than likely from Private property. Hell who is th
50 Bkonner: My response has two parts. The first is about giving up some of our civil liberties. The second is how to be a spotter in the US in this age of parano
51 Indy: If you are going to be on their property then by all means go and let them know in advance. I mean what would you think if you saw someone walking aro