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Air China To Buy 20 A330-200 Aircraft From Airbus  
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Posted (9 years 6 months 4 days ago) and read 7895 times:

" advertisement
Thursday January 27, 9:01 AM
Air China to buy 20 A330-200 aircraft from Airbus
HONG KONG, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Air China Ltd. , the country's biggest airline, said on Thursday it has agreed to buy 20 A330-200 aircraft from Airbus .
Air China said the catalog price for the planes was about US$2.86 billion, but said the total consideration for the deal was lower.

The airline said the aircraft will be delivered between mid-2006 and the end of 2008. The deal, which has been approved by its parent China National Aviation Holding Co., will be funded through cash from the company's operations and commercial bank loans. "

rest of the story could be found at..

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/050127/3/1vb73.html


"Up the Irons!"
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7756 times:

Yet another airline that can't/won't wait for 7E7/A350. The 332 sure is a very successful airframe. Well done Airbus!

GU



I have no memory of this place.
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7692 times:

In Chinese carriers case, they need airplane within the next three years. Something the 7E7 & A350 cannot do.

Well add another type to the diverse CA fleet. At least they won't be adding another new flightdeck.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7660 times:


Another blow for 7e7.....for now anyway!

Great news though.

Micke  Smokin cool



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7644 times:

Another blow for 7e7.....for now anyway!

Great news though.


You forgot the A350 too.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7605 times:

The A350 is 5 years away (at least)!

I cant understand why China order a/c now, when they said they wouldnt make any orders during 2005.....a time-out!

Micke  Confused



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12892 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7576 times:
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Does anyone know the engines selected? All of my google searches all pointed out that the engines bids were due January 11, 2005 but not who won. Note: Its very common to decide on the engines well after contractual bids have been offered. (Maintenance details might still be under negotiation.)

MDsh00: Alas, while its a missed sale for the A350, airbus is probably very happy with the NW and CA A330 orders.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7524 times:

Congrats to Airbus once again.

To those of you who state that CA should have waited for the 7E7/350, woudn't the 330 be as good an aircraft for non ultra-long haul routes? The last time I checked China was quite populous, and such aircraft could even br used for domestic flights.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7486 times:

China's population is heavily concentrated on the coast. The distances between population centers are much shorter, so the A330 range seems like overkill for domestic flights.


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9720 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7221 times:

I still don't really understand why the A330-200 hasn't been succesful as a domestic airliner. I know it's a long-haul aircraft but Airbus developed a 'domestic' version for Qantas. With the smaller fuel tanks in the domestic version of the A330-200, it would increase the cargo capacity of the A330-200. Wouldn't this be even more attractive to airlines who would want to use the A330-200 as a A300/767 replacement? I remember Qantas having problems with the turnaround time for the A330-200, what causes a higher turnaround time in Qantas case? Does this have to do with the aircraft? The A330-200 proved to be a very succesful aircraft in its category, but why would a domestic version not work or why hasn't it lived up to its promises so far? Or are these problems just rumours?

Anyway, congratulations to both Air China and Airbus. Like others have said, I wonder what will happen to the 7E7 in China's case. I would think Air China would have been one of the airlines targeted by Boeing. Do Chinese airlines have a need for a long range 7E7? Or is Boeing mainly focusing on selling the shorter range version of the 7E7 to China?

Regards,

A388


User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7012 times:

Its just too heavy. An aircraft has to be made stronger to carry all the extra fuel for long haul flying. Even if you aren't hauling fuel for short flights, you are still hauling the extra metal.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineRj111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6973 times:

Well add another type to the diverse CA fleet

The A343 has 90% commonality with the A330.


User currently offlineHadis From China, joined Jan 2005, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6893 times:

Like others have said, I wonder what will happen to the 7E7 in China's case. I would think Air China would have been one of the airlines targeted by Boeing. Do Chinese airlines have a need for a long range 7E7? Or is Boeing mainly focusing on selling the shorter range version of the 7E7 to China?


It was reported that Condoleeza Rice, secretary of state, will visit China in March. Maybe that will be a good timing to announce the big Chinese 7E7 order.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7988 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6841 times:

I wonder why CA buys the A330-200 instead of the A330-300. Is CA wanting to fly a lot more longer routes out of PEK and PVG?

User currently offlineHGH From China, joined Jan 2005, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6804 times:

RayChuang,

Basicly, part of the A332s will based in PVG to expand routes from PVG.

Allen


User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8502 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6705 times:
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China never said they would not order aircraft in 2005,they said they won't allow any more for delivery in 2005 other than those currently on order.

I understand they have a pilot shortage or will have at the current rate of grown of the airlines.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6701 times:

Acting on the assumption that CA will deploy the new planes mainly on short- or domestic routes Airbus does not seem to have any problems of selling A330 into markets for which the A300-600 was originally designed. Despite it has roughly 30 tons more structural weight. But IMHO they need a A300-600 replacement to counter the 7E7-3 in the medium run.

I question my myself with which product they want to convince LH or BA when they replace their short-range widebodies (A300, 767) ?

[Edited 2005-01-27 18:45:02]

User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4116 posts, RR: 90
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6635 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Good news and quick confirmation from initial reports only a short time ago.

Solnabo

I cant understand why China order a/c now, when they said they wouldnt make any orders during 2005.....a time-out!

To answer your query. That is correct, however, there was much confusion when this was announced and CA can order for delivery from 2006 onwards. There was also an exemption if the carrier was already in negotiations to Order or Lease for 2005. CZ is a good example. Last week they agreed with GECAS to lease 9 737-800 for delivery from 04/05 through to 02/06. So even though they are taking delivery in 2005 because the contract was under negotiation in late 2004 they are exempted from the restrictions. There are 2 other leasing deals for A & B that should fall into this category. Hope that clears it up for you!

For those asking about 7E7, 2pm Washington time on Friday 28th should see an announcement. But that is OT so back on topic a question if I may.

Are any of these for Air China's Southwest division? Reports previously stated that 5 would be for them, is that the case here?

Regards



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineBlackKnight From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6600 times:

This order is political. China wants the EU to drop the ban on military sales. Also with a huge 7E7 order in the next few days it will soften the blow.

Sad thing is if China makes all these various types of aircraft work then many of us will have to re-think the value of commonality.

At least there will be value gained from running the types side by side. A clear view of which types are better under the same conditions could be shared.



BK
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9720 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Thanks for the explanation Doug_Or. So this is apparently the reason why Airbus is coming with the A350, a A330 derivative with more composite materials used to make the aircraft lighter and better compete against the 7E7. I'm very anxious in seeing the successes of both the 7E7 and the A350, should be very interesting to follow. The A350 in my opinion is not much more than an A330 with a lighter weight, slightly new technological improvements, mainly being the new engines supposedly being developed for the A350. But, looking at the current A330, I think the technology used in this aircraft is already highly advanced and should be able to compete against the 7E7 just fine. Like I said, it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out. I wish both all the best  Wink/being sarcastic

A388  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineMagyar From Hungary, joined Feb 2000, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6530 times:


If the leaders of Airbus countries (like Chirac) would have a little
ire and meanness they would tie the lifting of the EU arms embargo
to China NOT to order the 7E7. That is something that Boeing and
the US cannot counter. China will never be able to buy sophisticated
arms from the US no matter what, but modernizing their army probable
worth more than whatever advantage the 7E7 would offer.
So the Airbus countries would have a double score. Big money from
the arms sales (EADS would be probably the biggest beneficary) and
big blow to Boeing.

However, it looks like this aren't gonna happen if news about a big
Chinese 7E7 order is true!


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8210 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6491 times:

The arms embargo is irrelevant to the deal because the US will never in our lifetime lift the arms embargo, no matter what Europe does. This and other orders are simply because airlines have a need for the aircraft and the A330 is currently the best in its category. what will be interesting to see is if Airbus will allow them to transfer some of these to A350's when this one is available and if airlines chose to do it.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12390 posts, RR: 47
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6479 times:
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what will be interesting to see is if Airbus will allow them to transfer some of these to A350's when this one is available and if airlines chose to do it.

That won't be an issue for some time - all the backorder A330s will be delivered long before the A350 takes to the skies.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

I could only see China's (and Chinese airlines) appetite getting larger and larger with its economy growth. If those huge a/c orders could bring some political leverage for the Chinese, why not? Anyone who can does it, no matter its political system. They are playing the "captialism" game.

Sad thing is if China makes all these various types of aircraft work then many of us will have to re-think the value of commonality.

Who says Air China will stay Air China as it is today? The concept whole Boeing fleet or Airbus fleet gives away to cheap labors and government orders. Plus, who says a China Southern 777 would only be serviced by China Southern? or MU's 340s by MU only? They are mostly state owned, so they are a big family anyways.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

If the leaders of Airbus countries (like Chirac) would have a little
ire and meanness they would tie the lifting of the EU arms embargo
to China NOT to order the 7E7. That is something that Boeing and
the US cannot counter.


Oh the US could counter it quite easily, by putting a wide variety of trade impediments into place that would eliminate/reduce China's huge trade surplus with the US, the largest source of hard currency they use to fund foreign purchases of raw materials and energy and the customer that keeps so many Chinese employed. There would be no reason to give Chinese made products unfettered access to the US market if US products aren't given unfettered access to the Chinese market.

That said the 7E7 in China looks like it is almost a done deal.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
25 N328KF : Solnabo: Looks like your guess about no Chinese 7E7 order was wrong.
26 HGH : Ba319-131, No order means no extra orders such as lease old planes. Those A330/A380/7E7 were already on the order list.
27 Gigneil : I don't really understand why they need both 20 A330-200s and however many 7E7s. N
28 QFA001 : I don't really understand why they need both 20 A330-200s and however many 7E7s. The value of 60 B787s would be about the same as 20 A332s, 20 A333s (
29 Atmx2000 : I don't really understand why they need both 20 A330-200s and however many 7E7s. If/when the Chinese government ever revalues their currency upwards,
30 Jacobin777 : Atmx2000...you forgot to add buy 1/2 of the United States property when many will file for bankruptcy.....courtesy of "Easy Al" Greenspan's maverick m
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