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Why Is Airbus So Popular In The Middle East?  
User currently offlineTerre From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 1 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11388 times:

On the Airbus website is says:

"Airbus has a strong presence in the key Middle East market, where its modern aircraft family consistently wins the majority of airline orders. Today, almost all of the major carriers in the Middle East have chosen to grow and modernize with Airbus aircraft"

I was checking this and it seems to be true. Or Airbus gets all the orders or Boeing only gets some as an consolation price to keep the Americans happy! I was wondering why Airbus is so popular in the Middle East. Is it only their "modern aircraft family" or are politics more important here. Airbus being European instead of American Boeings??? Or are European politicians like Chirac busy selling Airbus planes??

Any clues?



45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11300 times:

Don't ask questions like this!
It will only lead to another A vs. B war!
 Big grin

Anyway, I am sure that there are several facotrs, why this is the case.
And I do not want to speculate what is acutally the #1 reason for this.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8142 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11276 times:

I think one reason is a lot of Middle East airlines went from being small and dodgy to modern relatively recently and if you're buying a whole fleet of planes (ie Tunisair, MEA, Syrianair, Qatar) it makes sense to get the most modern planes and a fleet where your pilots can fly everthing (MEA, for instance, are big benficiaries of the CCQ system, with the A321s and A330s).


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11272 times:

I would think it's because America isn't really popular in the Middle East.
The airline of the most important "ally" of the US in the Middle East prefers Boeing while most Middle Eastern airlines prefer Airbus - coincidence?

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Photo © Cence jojo




pelican


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11177 times:

Pelican:

That's not an El Al aircraft.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11153 times:

N328KF - well spotted. But Pelican is right - Israel isn't the U.S.'s most important ally in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia is. After all, does Israel have half the world's crude oil ? Errr, no.

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11099 times:

If Saudi Arabia is an ally, who needs enemies?

Anyway, to the heart of the matter—perhaps Saudi Arabian has the MRO contract on the Saudi E-3s, and so at one time it made perfect logistical sense?



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11078 times:

Well, Boeing sell their a/c for full price, and Airbus sell thei a/c virtually for free (give or take a few million $)  Big grin


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12633 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10985 times:
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If Saudi Arabia is an ally, who needs enemies?

You had better ask GWB that question! Big grin

I don't think Airbus is massively more popular than Boeing in the ME.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 854 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10853 times:


Maybe they dont like stuff "Made in USA" right now........

My 0,02

Micke  Smokin cool



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8482 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10753 times:

It's cultural. As hard as it may seem to most American, to a lot of people around the World, France is the pinacle of good. Also, in the case of the Middle East, historically these countries have always been far closer to France than the USA. In a lot of these countries, French was for a long time, and still is in some cases, their second language. So there are far more cultural ties to France than to the US, and it doesn't help matters in favor of the US that America is so hated these days. And then there's the financial aspect. Airbuses are cheaper than Boeing aircraft.

User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9410 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10578 times:

Air--

Well put. For a quick comparison because of your aforementioned statement, you and some other folks out there would probably know more about this than myself, (but not to get too far off topic), does Airbus have a large presence in SE Asian Airlines (Indochine).?





if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10569 times:

Its because, like anyone else, Arabs like deep discounts on aircraft too.

User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6921 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10543 times:

Why Airbus "is popular" in the Middle East? To me, it's got nothing to do with culture, anti-American sentiments bla bla bla...

They seem to prefer to fly to destinations with less frequency than in Europe/America for flights within the region. This is probably because the big cities there don't do a lot of time sensitive business amongst themselves, but mainly to places further away. Emirates flew or still does fly say Dubai-Cairo 1 daily using a 777-300... frequency isn't the main focus... so they seem to prefer piling up the pax onto a widebody and just fly once or twice a day.

So, they go for twin engine widebodies... Gulf Air years ago went for the 767s... Emirates started A310s, Qatar with A300-600s... This was a safe option despite their deep pockets (so cross out Kuwait Air and Saudia from the list of preferring twins).

First there was just the 767 vs A310/A300-600Rs... the next scale up is the A330-200, then the A343/A333 vs the 777. Now 2 Boeing types mentioned vs 4 Airbus types... throw the seat capacity classes then you'll see why Airbus seems popular in the Middle East.

All those 310s, 300-600s and 767s are being replaced by A332s, and they're growing capacity adds the 777(Well, seems to only be EK & KU from the gulf states...) and A343/345... no A333s as far as I remember. Then when they're ready to go to the behemoth scale, the A380 was just coming out while the 747 is "old"... so, there it goes...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10488 times:

@N328KF
If Saudi Arabia is an ally, who needs enemies?

That's what I wanted to express with the use of quotation marks "ally".
You're probably with your statement about EL AL. But may I ask you which manufacturer is preferred by EL AL?

pelican


User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13138 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10465 times:

I would suggest other reasons too as to the preferences now for Airbus. It wasn't until the 1970's that you really had an alternative to American company (Boeing, McD-D) made aircraft, especially larger aircraft. The EC and other Europeian countries where Airbus is based and has operations are buy a lot more oil from the Middle East as a group than the USA does. European based oil companies were among the first ones to develop the oil fields of the Middle East. There is also, the long standing trade routes through the Middle East to/from Europe. From the 1800's until in some cases the 1960's, France & the UK controlled many areas of the Middle East. These trade and political ties meant that they etablished significant and long term ties to the region. I would also suggest that the business ethics of the USA, that is limitiations on bribery and also not doing business with Israel to get business with some Middle Eastern countres also plays into this.

User currently offlineUshermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2965 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10449 times:

". The EC and other Europeian countries where Airbus is based and has operations are buy a lot more oil from the Middle East as a group than the USA does. European based oil companies were among the first ones to develop the oil fields of the Middle East."

If you are talking about Germany or the UK, that is total bollocks.



Where have all the tri-jets gone...
User currently offlineSu184 From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 239 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10449 times:

To give some more light on the type of traffic in the Middel East:

- Emirates flies twice to Cairo with B773's, B772's and A332's
- Saudia flies to Cairo using B744's B743's B772's, A306's up to 6 flights daily
- EgyptAir o Jeddah with B772's, A306's, and now A332's up to 6 times daily
and more examples of other routes, so it is not only piling of passengers in single flights, it is both frequency and capacity on some high density routes.

One of the reasons for Airbus' success in the Mid-East is that their planes are better matched for the medium-haul sectors flown, as A300's, A330's perform better in this market sector, the same applies for the A320 compared to the B738, its cargo capacity is more useful for the kind of passenger in our region.


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10255 times:

Does someone know if Saudia is thinking to buy new planes in a near future.
I am thinking at the Classic 747s and A300-600s they still operate.
Do not forget they got the very first A300-600s.
And i am not speaking of the MD90s (which are not old) which were a big political mistake.


User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1093 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10213 times:

Why is Airbus so popular in the Middle East?

Because these guys have cash money. And with Airbus that translates into big discounrts.



I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3806 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10066 times:

Not to appear to be anti-Boeing (I'm not), but could Airbus's popularity in the Middle East possibly be explained by the very strong (non-political!) possibility that Airbus can offer aircraft types better suited to the needs of Middle East carriers than what Boeing can offer? For most medium to longhaul flights from the Middle East, it would seem that a large twin is the ideal equipment type. A330 variants are, from what I know, more economical than their Boeing counterparts (777/767) to operate on routes such as DXB-LHR/BOM/BKK and other routes of comparable distances typical to the networks of carriers based in the Middle East.

User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9764 times:

Well maybe because the USA are waging a war on muslims because they hold them responsible as a group for 9/11.

I would buy Airbus too!


User currently offlinePropulsion From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 294 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9664 times:


Probably because it isn't all American. Also because they look nicer with ever blander liveries - MEA take note.  Big thumbs up



A bus is a vehicle that runs twice as fast when you are after it as when you are in it.
User currently offlineVelasco From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9556 times:

As hard as it may seem to most American, to a lot of people around the World, France is the pinacle of good. Also, in the case of the Middle East, historically these countries have always been far closer to France than the USA. In a lot of these countries, French was for a long time, and still is in some cases, their second language. So there are far more cultural ties to France than to the US, and it doesn't help matters in favor of the US that America is so hated these days.

Airbazar - It seems to me you're way off the point. Sure there are many people around the world blaming the US for their foreign policy, a sentiment which may translate in preference for Airbus products but having travelled extensively "around the globe" I don't see a lot of people eyeing France as the pinnacle of good - hate for Bush certainly doesnt translate into love for Chirac. As for historical and cultural ties to France being "far" more important than to the US I beg to differ: Lebanon and Syria may have close cultural ties to France and the french do phantasize about Egypt being part of the "Francophonie" but the same does not apply to the rest of the middle east where French historical and cultural influence has been receding as much as it has in other parts of the world. You're right though when you say US foreign policy may harm Boeing and anyone familiar with Africa knows how good french diplomacy is at pushing their goods: blunt american diplomacy may have widened business oportunities for Airbus whatever the merit of its products.

[Edited 2005-01-29 02:46:06]


Lisboa-Rio on the A340... São Pedro e São Paulo down below...
User currently offlinePlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 987 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9373 times:

Could it be something to do with the fact that A have always had a multi-national sales team, which includes women. B's team (& McD & L) was traditionally made up of former employees of airlines based in the USA, and their relatives, with a token national temporarily added when trying to make a specific sale.

Reading these threads, few Americans believe B miss out on sales because they didn't have the right equipment for the job, or couldn't package it correctly. The only reasons B don't sell aircraft is because A discount.

That epitomises precisely why B have missed out on sales. B used to believe what a.net posters still believe - that B always have the best product and package, and only lose an order because of discounting.

Overlooked, is their predominantly US experienced sales staff didn't listen. This is how the biggest airlines in the World do it (all US based examples naturally). Historically, the most frequently used word i've heard to describe B sales staff is arrogant.

This approach to doing business has and is changing, but there are still a lot of bridges to be re-built, especially with airlines that were previously viewed by B as (and probably were) under-funded, or mis-managed, or high risk, or all of the above.


25 Airways6max : This is an easy one. 'Cause Airbus is not American. They HATE anything American in the Middle East.
26 Post contains images SV777KiloAlpha : Does someone know if Saudia is thinking to buy new planes in a near future. I am thinking at the Classic 747s and A300-600s they still operate. Do not
27 ToBEYwithMEA : The reason why Boeing are not as popular in the ME than Airbus is because Airbus have marketed themselves a lot better than Boeing in the ME. Boeing h
28 NYCFlyer : "Well maybe because the USA are waging a war on muslims because they hold them responsible as a group for 9/11. I would buy Airbus too!" Hey A380900 -
29 A300 : As far as I can tell A & B are fairly even in the ME. Even in the pro-USA days (Imperial regime) of Iran, IR bought A300s in addition to lots of B707,
30 Jacobin777 : Airways6max....do you have ANY idea what you are talking about??? Where are your facts? Unless you bring up any facts to support your asinine comment
31 Aer Lingus : Maybe the Middle East is a bit far away From the USA.
32 Post contains images Scbriml : This is an easy one. 'Cause Airbus is not American. They HATE anything American in the Middle East. Have you actually ever been anywhere near the ME?
33 NumberTwelve : Very simple: * you have 2 good products, f.e. A and B (or maybe 3 f.e. A, B and C) and they have very good quality * price for the planes are almost t
34 Pilotaydin : "This is an easy one. 'Cause Airbus is not American. They HATE anything American in the Middle East" what the hell are you talking about? You're just
35 SU184 : Years ago I worked for a multinational company with US origins, I remember the comments by many customers about the attitude of our salesmen, and the
36 QR332 : A lot of what you guys are saying is wrong about cultural links being the cause, etc. Boeing has sold many aircraft to ME airlines in the past, and to
37 Post contains images Flyinginthesky : First of all I don't agree that the decision for buying aircrafts is purely politics ,but it's the marked .Airbus nowadays offer better prices for new
38 FCKC : SV777KiloAlpha Many thanks for your answer. That's the kind of answer i like to get.Giving informations that were not known before. SV buying ERJ 190s
39 Alessandro : Strange that people don´t mention the Tupolevs, Illjysins, Yakolevs and Antonovs, the sales of former Soviet passenger planes has gone down a lot in
40 Post contains images SV777KiloAlpha : FCKC, The news from inside the airline is that the RJs will be stationed in Hail (OEHL) in the north and Abha (OEAB) in the south. These two airports
41 FCKC : Thanks SV777KiloAlpha. Yes as you said BOTH manufacturers have excellent products. Keep us informed of what you hear about the future fleet plan of SV
42 A380900 : NYCFlyer, Stop asking for deletion of posts. This shows how intolerant some Americans have become with statements that challenge their world views. Th
43 NYCFlyer : A380900 - It was off-topic because your statement was less about Middle Eastern purchases of Boeing, than your own biased beliefs that none of us need
44 TLVFred : To add to yuor lists - ELAL is entirely Boeing. Now as it recently has changed to private ownership, maybe it will start using Airbus as political con
45 A380900 : You're right to stop the discussion because you are, like your entire country, on shaky grounds. As for being inflammatory... You should be wiser in c
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