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Boeing's Next New Airliner After The 787?  
User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10735 times:


I am fantasizing about Boeing's next all-new airliner after the 787. I think it would have to be really innovative. Maybe it could offer the following:

1) Speed - Boeing didn't spend all those R&D dollars on the Sonic Cruiser and the TU-144LL for nothing! They are going to find a way to make ultra long-haul flights shorter. I would not be surprised to see them debut an aircraft that breaks the sound barrier without the "boom problem".

2) Variable Capacity Configuration - They would debut an innovative design that allows an airline to expand or contract the capacity of the aircraft. Think of something like a vertical double lobe design. The bottom lobe would accomodate 350-500 passengers and the upper lobe would accomodate 250-400 passengers. Additionally, the upper lobe will be removable to make the aircraft more economical when extra capacity is not needed. The conversion would be achievable in 72 hours.

3) Variable Power Configuration - The aircraft will be able to run on 2 engines (single lobe configuration) or 4 engines (dual lobe configuration). The engine management system will be designed for "plug-and-play" use. Physically, the engine configuration change would be made during lobe removal/addition.

4) Variable Wing Configuration - Expandable wing length and fuel tankage would be a major innovation.

5) New Naming Convention - In a bow to the asian cultures (target market) and due to the lack of remaining numbers in the current series, the plane will be call the Boeing 808.

Could my fantasy come through? What do you think?

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFutureUApilot From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10514 times:

Well... i don't know... but i would suspect they finish their Sonic Cruiser project.... Just a guess. (vote about the Sonic Cruiser vs. the 787 in my poll in my profile!)

-Sam



The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
User currently offlineReggaebird From Jamaica, joined Nov 1999, 1176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10461 times:

I liked the sonic cruiser too but I don't think the technology was really ready yet. Continuing with the Cruiser after launching the 787 would not make sense. They would dilute each other's markets.

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10431 times:

Well since Boeing didn't develop the TU-144, Tupolev did, we might get a hint of what the next naming scheme might be from what Boeing did nickname their SST prototype: Boeing 2707.

Cheers  Smile



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAA777223ER From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 220 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10411 times:

Reggaebird:

The TU-144 was built by Tupolev, I don't think Boeing spent any $$ on it's R&D:


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Photo © Markus Moßhammer



And I'm all for the Sonic Cruiser project to restart.

Regards,

AA777223ER



time flies, seize the day
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10394 times:

I think they will be very inspired to make a very innovative 737NG replacement (We heard about a twin aisle plane),and not lose their time with an eventual 747ADV , not to be out of the giant wide bodies market and simply to counter Airbus,as they will not make money with him.
Even if the 747 is a fantastic plane and sure all people on this earth love it greatly , Boeing should consider it's finished forever.


User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10319 times:

Not so fast FCKC, you still have to prove that the A380 is going to be a winner for the 747 to go away... Remember the MD-11? I just wished Boeing would revamp the 747 the same way Airbus is doing to the A330 to compete with the 787...

The 737 will be the next all new plane for Boeing... 777 will be improved but not replaced...



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1885 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10294 times:

Boeing people said themselves, that their next project will be the 737 replacement. Boeing also will not spend as much money configuring it - it is going to be all-composite scaled down 787.

As far as 747ADV go... Dear Boeing... please... bring back 747-500X... PLEASE!!!!



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10271 times:

>As far as 747ADV go... Dear Boeing... please... bring back 747-500X...<

The 747ADV is actually more efficient, as the 745 would use the conventional engines from the A380



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10225 times:

Call it a hunch...but I think it will be the 797.  Big grin

I seriously hope Boeing is working on a 737 replacement...they need something ready and waiting for Airbus...if they can make Airbus scramble, Boeing will ultimately get more sales. Big grin


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10198 times:

I think they will be very inspired to make a very innovative 737NG replacement

Absolutely. I believe Boeing will make a new plane to replace the B737 and, provided everything goes well with the B787, they will heavily reuse all they technology they developed for it.

I do expect them, however, to go ahead with the B747Adv first.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10157 times:

What I think Reggaebird was refering to Boeing/Nasa/Ratheon/Lockheed research program using the TU 144LL back in 1997. Boeing put money into a refit with new engines and work on some new avionics for it for the project. It focused heavily on the use of canards in sonic design which were integrated into the sonic cruiser design. The TU 144 had a higher capacity than the Concord but could accomplish the same speeds and range I believe. The U.S companies wanted to understand it. At the time there was a lot of discussion on a concord replacement.

In my opinion the only logical step for either Airbus or Boeing would be to create a plane that can fly further and faster. We can make planes bigger but people will want to get there faster and farther and do it efficiently. The best option is a plane with over 12,000nm and goes at maybe .98 mach or faster would be best. Cut the time from SIN-EWR from 18 to 10-12 hours. It would allow for new routes like NRT to Sao Paolo at 18 hours.

Maybe Boeing will introduce a 777 with 787 design features. Basically a new 777 of 100% composite with new efficient engines. Call it the 777-400 or 777-200ADV. The 777 is about to become the longest range commercial aircraft. Make it lighter with more efficient engines and we break the 10,000nm mark.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1596 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10128 times:

Efficiency and not speed will be the future. Oil is going to be in short supply and if there is to be future growth in aviation than A and B must look into alternatives to jet fuel. Maybe a hydrogen engine??? dangerous but if contained can be very cheap.

My bet is on efficiency over speed so SST is out... but again maybe somehow there will be a way to get both.



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineFlyabunch From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10127 times:

I vote 737/757 replacement. It will address their largest market segment...one they cannot ignore.

Mike


User currently offlineZOTAN From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10074 times:

There next plane will probably be a new 737. I dont see the 747ADV happening, and I really doubt they will try to invent something fast. Its impossible to get rid of the sonic boom problem. I cant find any pictures demonstrating it but basically all the sound just collects in one area, and thats where you get the sonic boom from. No way around it.

User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

As far as 747ADV go... Dear Boeing... please... bring back 747-500X... PLEASE!!!!

BlueSky1976,

As much as I am in favor of that, it's just not gonna happen. I like the idea because not only would Boeing have a 450 seat 9,000 nm aircraft, but the -600 would also have a slot in the 500+ seat market. If the damn thing wasn't so expensive to develop, I think it would be put back on the front burner.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12171 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9995 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Boeing should focus on up dating their current product range after the B787, if they decide to go ahead with the B744ADV then that should be the next project, then build a new B737 with 787 looks, design, technology etc. If Boeing can build a sonic cruiser that has economical engines, like the B787s engines then yes build a sonic cruiser.

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9837 times:

Both A & B have some major challenges ahead after the 380 and 787.

Boeing needs to continue with a 747 line and they are well aware of the market loss if they do not. This loss would flow down to smaller planes and I do not see them allowing that to happen. The 747ADV fills a size slot better than any other plane - even a "shrunk" 380. Airlines need to have the option of both the 747 and 380 sized planes to maximize a match with various routes, just as they need 767 and 777 sized planes so there will be a demand. While sales have been slow recently it should be noted that airlines short of cash have been ordering planes to fill the 380 size slot as they already have 747s in the fleet. That situation will not last forever.

The next step is going to be in the 737 size range and Boeing has an advantage right now because of the work they have done on the 787. One would be foolish, however, to assume that Airbus is not working on the same project in the back rooms and may actually announce a 32E before Boeing announces a 73E. I have feeling that A started working on the 350 as soon as they learned about the 7E7 program - that is simply competition and Airbus is very good at competing.

My guess is that Boeing will go with the 747ADV now, have a team of engineers working on the 787 with their assignment being to gather technology for the 737 revision. When the 747ADV is being worked on there will also be joint engineering for a 777 ADV. Following the production of the first 73E work on a 77E will start, followed by the 74E.

On the Airbus side I see the 32E being the next major announcement, followed by an announcement that the 350 will fully replace the 330 line. After that they will announce the 38E and this time might engineer it for a shrink that will compete with the 757ADV/74E.

As much as I love the Sonic Cruiser the market killed it - the dot com bust and 9/11 and to some degree the growth of LCCs. If we were still in the dot com boom and there had been no 9/11 the Sonic Cruiser would still be on schedule. II now believe that it will be a very long time before full fare pax and airlines return to the point where the Sonic Cruiser will be financially viable.


User currently offlineAirgeek12 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9828 times:

probobly something big to try and top up with the A380, but not sure do to the 747-ADV..


Maybe another SST or something??!?!

We'll just have to wait and see!

geek


User currently offlineB2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1369 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9802 times:

1. 747ADV - 450 seats, EIS in approx. 2009
2. 737/757 successor - 125-250 seats, EIS in approx. 2015
3. "787-10" stretch to replace the 772 - 300-325 seats, EIS in approx. 2017
4. 773/747 successor (perhaps a BWB) - 350-550 seats, EIS in approx. 2020

Beyond that, who knows....

--B2707SST

[Edited 2005-01-30 06:09:25]


Keynes is dead and we are living in his long run.
User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9725 times:

My thoughts? Time for another Zippyjet editorial....

Boeing rolls out the Boeing 797. Based on the shark tailed 787, the 797 will be the successor to the popular Boeing 737 family. Another Bread and butter commercial airliner. I agree with most of you regarding the desire for Boeing to cross that frontier and forge ahead with a Sonic Cruiser or, better yet an HSCT. However, in all practical purposes, a 797 as replacement for the 737's would be prudent and buy Boeing some time and amass some much needed capital. After the 797 then, the fun begins and I envision the Boeing 808, or 2707 or 7707 HSCT. And I bet the A-Net forums will have plenty of threads debating the merits of the new family of airliners and which number designation is best suited. It will be a 50/50 horse race as to whether it is the Sonic Cruiser or that leap to the new HSCT. Its going to be a fun ride.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9693 times:

yea this is a far out guess.. but I have some inside info its going to be a 797.. and keep this on the downlow but airbus has something called the a360 coming!!

User currently offlineZippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9670 times:

I've been thinking about it more. Here goes: The 787 will have a 1, 2, 3 , 4 hundred derivative. Look for the Boeing 797 (replaces 737) pulling up to a jet way near you around 2012. Boeing will do some experimenting during the 20 teens decade and may come out with mini me versions of a Sonic Cruiser and or BWB bird. As the 20 teens decades passes midpoint there will be the buzz and anticipation of Boeing's 800 series HSCT birds. The 808's first revenue passenger flight takes off in 2018. Then in 2019 Airbus rolls out its A-400 or A 3000 HSCT stay tuned for more hot and heavy high spirited friendly A- Net forums and debates. This HSCT race will be reminiscent of the great Boeing Douglass jet juggernaut of the late 50's early 60's. As I said before it could be a Boeing 808, 2707 or 7707!
But, not to worry for those sentimental aviation enthusiasts and passengers. NW will still be flying those DC 9's in the friendly skies! Boeing and Airbus will develop a healthy side business pimping out (customizing) those old ladies of the sky. Look for a reality TV series; Pimp out my DC-9!.  Big thumbs up



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

As the 787 nears service entry, Boeing will dive into the 747Adv. and 737 replacement (797) simultaneously. After that, it will be either the sonic cruiser, HSCT, or B may look into a 777NG. They also may take another look at another 100-seat aircraft like the 717, which is unfortunately going out of production.

User currently offlineAllpress From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9326 times:

wats this A360 supposed to be like
is it gonna be the step from the A340 or maybe bigger than the A380



landing is just a controlled collision with earth
25 LongbowPilot : I hate to bring bad news the the 37 family but I like them anyway. I think in the future you will see a shift in aircraft serivce. What i mean is that
26 OHLHD : The 7E7 is replacing (or considered to replace) the 767´s. Same goes for the A350 (if it is built), which will replace older A330 + A340. My bet is o
27 Astuteman : I definitely agree with you, longbowpilot, that users (airlines and passengers alike) ARE looking for more space/comfort on aircraft, to go along with
28 Aviation : In a question like this you have to ask yourself what is powering our world at the moment computers what do computers run on... Electricity I believe
29 PapaNovember : ReggaeBird, I think you've got a great idea! One plane that with modifications can wear many different hats. Sounds like a 30 year plan more than the
30 OPNLguy : >>>Additionally, the upper lobe will be removable to make the aircraft more economical when extra capacity is not needed. The conversion would be achi
31 HAWK21M : Def the Future would be concerned with travelling faster & reaching destinations quicker. I think the 797 would be a faster travelling/less fuel consu
32 Post contains images Richie87 : In the end, I suppose any new aircraft designs will be driven by what the market, being defined as 1.) the airlines themselves, and 2.) secondarily, w
33 Klkla : I would place my bet on a new 737 design based on the new technologies being developed for the 787 (and applied to the 747ADV). Doing this would give
34 Leon8828 : I would think that any aircraft manufacturer, be it A, B, or otherwise would strive to "think outside the box" or the "tube". Will manufacturers reall
35 Zaphod : How about Boeing entering into a tie-up with Ford or someone for a flying car using hydrogen fuel!!?? Since they are talking about point-to-point...ma
36 Zvezda : I think B2707SST has the right idea, except perhaps for the timing. Boeing will be very careful regarding the timing of the B737 replacement. One opti
37 PlaneSmart : B already have 747ADV and 737 replacement (797) design teams, drawn predominantly from the old 757/767 teams. A have A30 and A32 replacement design te
38 TransSwede : Lay off the crack-pipe, folks. The Sonic Cruiser ain't gonna happen. To really make a difference in travel time, a faster aircraft would have to go be
39 Post contains images BlueSky1976 : The 747ADV is actually more efficient, as the 745 would use the conventional engines from the A380 Actually, no. 745 was designed with an all-new sup
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