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AC Will Announce 50-jet Order This Year 787/A350  
User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 644 posts, RR: 22
Posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 21761 times:

Air Canada expands its fleet
By Bernard Simon
Financial Times
Published: January 30 2005 23:16 | Last updated: January 30 2005 23:16

Air Canada plans to order about 50 wide-body aircraft later this year for its expanding international network.


The Montreal-based carrier, which emerged from a court-supervised restructuring last October, is one of the few traditional North American airlines replenishing its fleet. While most US carriers remain in deep financial difficulty, Air Canada is forecasting an operating profit of about C$1.6bn (US$1.28bn) this year.

The Canadian carrier used the restructuring to cut its debt from C$12bn to C$4bn, and to raise C$1.1bn in new equity. With the bulk of its debt and lease obligations denominated in US dollars, Air Canada has also benefited from a sharp rise in the Canadian dollar.

Robert Milton, chief executive, said the airline was likely to order either the Boeing 7E7 Dreamliner or the Airbus A-350, each with a capacity of about 250 passengers. The new aircraft will replace an ageing fleet of wide-body Boeing 767s.

The 7E7 is due to enter service in 2008. Airbus's shareholders gave the go-ahead for the A-350 last month, with a target introduction date of 2010.

Air Canada is already bumping into capacity constraints as it expands its international services, especially to Asia and Latin America.

It has recently brought two mothballed 767s back into service and is leasing several used 767s and long-range Airbus A-340s.

The carrier will also start taking delivery later this year of 105 Embraer and Bombardier regional jets to improve flexibility



[Edited 2005-01-31 01:51:09]


Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
184 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCB777 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1216 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 21608 times:

I hope Boeing really pursues this order

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 21566 times:

Ditto, I got to go with the 787 this time, as its kinda like the 757 vs. A321, the 757 is a much better product, and same goes for 787 vs A350 even though the A350 is more of a 777 competitor.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineYhz78 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21544 times:

I'd love to see AC go Boeing on this deal as well but with the 767's being retired, that means that all widebodies left are either A330/340 aircraft. It only makes sense from a logical point of view to go with Airbus and keep MX costs, labor and training costs down. Then again, when do airlines ever go and do the logical thing.  Smile


Canada Rocks! From the west coast to the best coast!
User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 644 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21541 times:

I want to see the 787 win this order. I like Airbus products, but the Dreamliner is so revolutionary. C'mon Boeing, this is your chance!


Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21534 times:

This is Milton's chance to convince us that he really doesn't want AC to be an all-Airbus carrier (as he apparently claimed sometime ago...).

If Boeing wins this campaign then, in my opinion, it will really show the true potential of the B787 compared to the A350. Given all the 'buses that AC has, it will be quite a U-turn for them to buy 50 planes from Boeing. I hope it happens. I'm an Aeroplan Elite (for 5 years now...) and I hope I get to fly on an AC 787 one day. But I'm sure Airbus will fight hard for this campaign too.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21513 times:

Me too, I'm aching for a 787 order! Come on Air Canada we need some more Boeings in the fleet.

User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 644 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21495 times:

I'd love to see AC go Boeing on this deal as well but with the 767's being retired, that means that all widebodies left are either A330/340 aircraft. It only makes sense from a logical point of view to go with Airbus and keep MX costs, labor and training costs down. Then again, when do airlines ever go and do the logical thing.

After a fleet reaches about 35 aircraft, commonality means little in terms of cost reductions. It would not make sense for AC to order say 15 787. But with AC ordering at least 50... and I suspect they will order more... commonality will mean little.



Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
User currently offlineYhz78 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21452 times:

That's true AC7E7. At least with Mulroney gone Boeing will have a chance this time.


Canada Rocks! From the west coast to the best coast!
User currently offlineCO737800 From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21421 times:

I would love to see some AC 787's. If they order the 787 I will fly Air Canada again.

User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21341 times:

AC has better ties with Europe than the States (HRM Elizabeth II is head of state, French is widely spoken as an official language etc.). I suspect that this publicized decision for either the A350 or 787 is a ploy by AC to get juicy deals.

The US chastising the Canadians over withdrawing from the Iraqi war does little to win our Northward brethren for Boeing.

[Edited 2005-01-31 02:25:22]


"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21304 times:

Flybyguy:

"Better ties?" Guess that whole "number one trading partner" thing is a work of fiction, huh?



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineAC7E7 From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 644 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21288 times:

AC has better ties with Europe than the States (HRM Elizabeth II is head of state, French is widely spoken as an official language etc.). I suspect that this publicized decision for either the A350 or 787 is a ploy by AC to get juicy deals.

The US chastising the Canadians over withdrawing from the Iraqi war does little to win our Northward brethren for Boeing.


Trust me, the Queen has ZERO influence here. As well, Canada never withdrew from the Iraq war because we never participated. As for the ploy to get juicy deals, well of course! AC may really want, for example the 787, but will play the two manufactuers against each other to get the better deal.

AC may very well go for the A350, but not for the reasons you suggest.

-AC7E7



Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21220 times:

Canada is a spread out country with a large immigrant population from all over the world. I would think smaller long range jets like the 787 could fit nicely into the AC fleet and help cater to travel plans of Canadians.


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 21198 times:

Airbus hasn't committed the A-350 to anything but paper, yet. The B-787 is going to fly in a few years, Boeing is committed to it and has , what? about 186 orders for the Dreamliner?

AC has time to wait on Airbus to see if they commit to the A-350. I suspect they are leaning towards the A-350 with hopes of being a kick-off customer and then gets some say in the design.

If Airbus doesn't decide to build the A-350, then AC can still go with the B-787 and hasn't lost any time in getting the production line numbers they need.


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 21159 times:

Air Canada is already bumping into capacity constraints as it expands its international services, especially to Asia and Latin America.

Though I would love to see AC with 787s, I think A350s are a bit more likely in this case. Mainly due to the greater capacity needed. I mean, Asia isn't a low yield market and ACs loads to GRU, AFAIK, have been up fairly high. Maybe if they fly to GIG... but who knows.

BTW, how are ACs loads to EZE and SCL?

Fingers crossed for the 787!

Cheers,

PPVRA




"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 961 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 21113 times:

Ditto, I got to go with the 787 this time, as its kinda like the 757 vs. A321, the 757 is a much better product,

I have to say... that's not the strongest argument in favor of the 787 that I've heard...

I don't know Air Canada's long-term fleet plans so I don't really care to speculate.


User currently offlineYhz78 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 21001 times:

>>AC has better ties with Europe than the States (HRM Elizabeth II is head of state, French is widely spoken as an official language etc.). I suspect that this publicized decision for either the A350 or 787 is a ploy by AC to get juicy deals.

The US chastising the Canadians over withdrawing from the Iraqi war does little to win our Northward brethren for Boeing.<<

Not to mention that french is barely spoken in a large majority of the country. Yes, it is an official language, but outside of Quebec, New Brunswick and some small pockets in Nova Scotia you'd be hard pressed to hear it at all. You ask any average Canadian and their knowledge of the U.S. vastly outweighs what they could dream to know of Europe. As far as participation in Iraq.....well, we just won't get into that right now.  Smile



Canada Rocks! From the west coast to the best coast!
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 20889 times:

Yhz78:

And even in parts of Quebec (mainly Montreal) it's possible to get by without speaking French. Certainly Montreal culturally has more in common with Burlington, Vermont than Paris, France.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5724 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 20747 times:

Well, I'd love to see 787s in the new livery, but I really expect Airbus to win this one.

User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 20683 times:

because they are replacing the 767 seems to me they will go with the 787. It is better technology for the long term. Why pick 2nd best? just because they have other Airbus planes?. As already mentioned, commonality is not an issue for such a great number of planes.

User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 20650 times:

The Financial Times only got the story half right. The deal will include two aircraft types, not one. With AC having a hard time finding good lift NOW, it's the front end aircraft that is driving the negotiations. I have it on impeccable authority that AC considers both the 787 and the 350 to be suitable aircraft for the backend deal replacing 763s. It's the front end aircraft and the willingness of the winning manufacturer to meet AC on price and on other terms that will decide the deal.

AC wants planes by 2006, and it needs a larger aircraft for routes like Vancouver-Tokyo, Toronto-London, Montreal-Paris, etc. They don't have a plane with over 300 seats now, and they want one.







User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 20605 times:

Sebring,

are we talking 772LR/773ER v 345/346 here???


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4860 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 20591 times:

There is quite a change in dynamics at AC since restructuring. Milton is now Chairman, Monty Brewer ex UA is CEO and the biggest shareholder is a NY based investment group.
AC's present AirBus fleet is mainly A319/A320 and A321 of which they have about 113 in total. They only have modest numbers of the the other types; 8 A330-300; 9 A340-300 and 2 A340-500. Their Boeing fleet is 13 767 -200/ER and 30 767 -300ER. So, for whatever it is worth I don't see Airbus having any sort of a lock on this one.
The operating efficiencies and capital recovery costs will be the clincher, I would say.


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 20526 times:


Would love to see AC w A346 and A350 in their fleet.

They ve been married w Boeing too long, time for a divorce IMO  Big thumbs up

Micke/ Suede



Airbus SAS - Love them both
25 Kim777fan : Queen Elizabeth II is Canada's Head of State???? When did this happen??
26 Atmx2000 : They ve been married w Boeing too long, time for a divorce IMO Exactly how can you call an airline that operates a huge fleet of A32Xs and a number of
27 Sebring : are we talking 772LR/773ER v 345/346 here??? Even simpler than that. Pick one plane from "Column (A)irbus" and one from "Column (B)oeing". Air Canada'
28 Hardkor : Queen Elizabeth II is Canada's Head of State???? When did this happen?? It's always been this way. It's a parliamentary system with dual executive, th
29 AC7E7 : Queen Elizabeth II is Canada's Head of State???? When did this happen?? 1867
30 Sebring : Is there any chance AC would be interested in any larger aircraft? Such as the A380 or 747ADV? No interest whatsoever. Both are too large
31 JoFMO : As far as I remember AC still has at least two A346 on order. They deferred the delivery under their bancrupt protection to around 2010. If they despe
32 YVR99 : N328KF: >>Certainly Montreal culturally has more in common with Burlington, Vermont than Paris, France
33 AC7E7 : I think AC will order the A346 for higher density routes and order the 787-8 as the 763 replacement. As for the 762 replacement, I think the A321 has
34 Ktachiya : I see a lot of ppl wanting Boeing fleets for them but to think of it logically, I think they will resort to Airbus. To start off with The A330/340 are
35 Sebring : Actually AC is adding back 762ers, and if you mean they are phasing out 321s, the rumor is only about three leased from AF. As for splitting the order
36 777ER : The order will most likly come down to who can offer the cheapest price. If the CEO does want a mixed A and B fleet then B would most likly get the or
37 AC7E7 : The 737-200 and the 747-400 did not have fleet commonality, unlike the A320 and A330. Again, once a fleet reaches about 35 aircraft commonality is not
38 Post contains images AeroWesty : They ve been married w Boeing too long, time for a divorce IMO I won't get involved in the A vs. B wars (cause I'd rather fly a Lockheed), but I've ac
39 Post contains images AC7E7 : So could we see the possibility of AC replacing their long-haul fleet (A333/343/345) with Boeing 777/787? In other words, one manufactuer, but multipl
40 N328KF : They have multiple types already. Who says they won't have multiple types in the future? It's wishful thinking on the part of those who think they're
41 777ER : So could we see the possibility of AC replacing their long-haul fleet (A333/343/345) with Boeing 777/787? In other words, one manufactuer, but multipl
42 Skydrol : Quoted from the Financial Times article: >>> Robert Milton, chief executive, said the airline was likely to order either the Boeing 7E7 Dreamliner or
43 N328KF : Skydrol: Ever heard of the term "expansion?"
44 AC7E7 : So could we see the possibility of AC replacing their long-haul fleet (A333/343/345) with Boeing 777/787? In other words, one manufactuer, but multipl
45 Dakotasport : Going with ANYTHING else but the 787 is FOOLISH IMHO! Their 76s have served them incredibly well the past decades and that should give them a good inc
46 Post contains images ViveLeYHZ : I think (and hope) AC will go for Boeings this time. The airline needs more ultra-long rage aircrafts ASAP for their Asian routes from YYZ (AC recentl
47 Skydrol : N328KF wrote: >>> Skydrol: Ever heard of the term "expansion?"
48 Iowa744fan : Sebring, What is the name of this book? I would be interested in finding it to read. I assume that it is rather recent? JoFMo, I was just wondering th
49 N328KF : Dakotasport: Costs more? On list price only, the 787s are cheaper.
50 AC7E7 : Air Canada had 3 747-433 Combis PW engines Canadian had 4 747-400 all passenger, GE engines. Okay... meds are kicking in.... going to bed.... legs get
51 Sebring : In other words, one manufactuer, but multiple types? Sorry, I may not be thinking straight, I'm a little excited....   Certainly the ideal option, a
52 Post contains images ViveLeYHZ : Just a side note, I love how everyone here is using "787" already, when only a week ago it was 7E7. (I like the 7E7 better myself) AC7E7 (or AC787), a
53 Sebring : What is the name of this book? I would be interested in finding it to read. I assume that it is rather recent? Published a few months ago Straight fro
54 Post contains images Behramjee : After just finishing reading Miltons amazing autibiography, I can safely say that judging by the contents of that book especially the A 330/340 vs B 7
55 Post contains images Boeingfever777 : As far as I remember AC still has at least two A346 on order. airbus.com shows (3) on order still. I do believe that AC will also order the A346 well
56 BlackKnight : Look could AC and this is just a suggestion change the A346 for A321's and make an order for 777/787. Also B could pull another buy and switch with on
57 N1120A : >Certainly Montreal culturally has more in common with Burlington, Vermont than Paris, France.They ve been married w Boeing too long, time for a divor
58 Columba : Isn´t that old news. In december there was a talk about a joint Star Alliance (especially Air Canada and Lufthansa) purchase of either A350 or 787.
59 BMED : Although I would like to see AC order the A350 I can see the 787 wining. It is a nice a/c although airbus have been selling a lot of orders lately so
60 FCKC : A good test in the 787/A350 battle.Exciting..........
61 Acidradio : OK, I guess this is off-track, but rather important. Is AC actually financially solvent to say, order 50 WIDEBODIES? And will they FILL these 50 WIDEB
62 AeroWesty : Is AC actually financially solvent to say, order 50 WIDEBODIES? I think your answer is in the opening post: Air Canada is forecasting an operating pro
63 Post contains images Acidradio : I think your answer is in the opening post: Point taken. Alright, their predictions better be on par and I better see an order for 50 787s
64 Csavel : Does anybody know if any of the 787 will be made in Canada? I know a lot of it is supposed to be made in Japan and thus may influence thinking there.
65 Knoxibus : If you think in terms of what they need capacity wise, availability date and DOC, I would bet on the 787 (erghh can't get used to it, I preferred the
66 Voodoo : Hmmm you would think it would go the 787 way but there was probably more reason in the `90s for them to order the 777 over the 340, and look what happ
67 Fhgandi : I wonder, if Boeing's 787 will make it against the A350, how big the money war will be... i.e. how much price reduction AC will receive... IMO, Boeing
68 Rj111 : If they want to replace 767's the 787 seems more logical on a size basis, commonality is irrelevent as many have pointed out. From the stats i've seen
69 Ac1 : The A350 will win based on negociated price...again.
70 Yhz78 : >>OK, I guess this is off-track, but rather important. Is AC actually financially solvent to say, order 50 WIDEBODIES? And will they FILL these 50 WID
71 Ac1 : Back in the early '90s when AC was deciding on wether to purchase the A340 or the 777, the decision came down to price wars with Airbus and Boeing. Bo
72 N328KF : Ac1: Airbus will have to negotiate a lot harder this time. The list prices themselves are very far apart, and in Boeing's favor. The A350-800 lists at
73 Sebring : On the issue of AC's ability to afford planes: It has very little debt now, has assets potentially worth billions, and a cost structure that should al
74 Post contains images AC7E7 : well since its on order I think they already ordered it. Did you mean to say they will fill these orders? Yes, that's what I meant, they will take del
75 AC1 : If AC does acquire 50 aircraft, does it not make this order the largest ever for the airline? It looks like we're going to see some major changes on t
76 Yyz717 : Boeing has shown an unwillingness in the recent past to negotiate aircraft purchases with financially unstable airlines. AC certainly falls into this
77 RayChuang : I think it's more likely that AC will buy the 787-8 for "thinner" long routes and the A340-600HGW for routes like YYZ-HKG non-stop (the Toronto, ON ar
78 Nyc777 : Does nyone know when this year the decision will be made. All we know is it's later in '05. When in '05 though?
79 MidnightMike : If Air Canada needs aircraft ASAP, should be interesting to see which company they go with? Can they really wait till 2008 for the 7E7 or 2010 for the
80 AC1 : "The fact remains he became CEO of a profitable AC in 1999 and drove it down into bankruptcy in about 3.5 years" YYZ717 you obvioulsly don't like Milt
81 N328KF : AC1: Who knows. Boeing found 757s for Continental. The 767 line has plenty of capacity though if necessary.
82 NYC777 : A350 EIs is 2010 and the 787 EIs is 2008.
83 SunriseValley : I wonder how much of a parallel there is to the AirNZ order in which, apparently, they locked in future fleet renewal/ expansion on what must have be
84 AC1 : It will be interesting to see what AC does from now until delivery of the new aircraft. They need several more long-haul planes for 2005 (partially co
85 Daedaeg : Does anybody know if any of the 787 will be made in Canada? I know a lot of it is supposed to be made in Japan and thus may influence thinking there.
86 Iowa744Fan : To those who listed the information about Milton's book, Thank you! I will have to find that and buy a copy soon!
87 DeltaWings : So It's obvious they want to replace the 767s. Well, the A350 is just way to big for a replacement. Okay, the A358 could be used as a replacement for
88 Gigneil : The 7E7 is too big to be a good replacement for the 762, as well. N
89 StanstedFlyer : Whatever they order, PLEASE put some decent IFE on board! 11 hours of head bobbing trying to watch a film.
90 StarAC17 : Would AC use either of these planes on YVR-SYD non-stop or would they put their A345's on this route once they get them. I would think that the 787 wo
91 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : AC's two A340-500s cost $87 million apiece - which is astoundingly cheap. Those planes were priced as part of the 330 contract Perhaps Boeing can give
92 Trent900 : another very high quality product from Boeing So your saying Airbus products arn't of high quility?? The 7E7 hasn't even been built yet let alone flow
93 FriendlySkies : So your saying Airbus products arn't of high quility?? The 7E7 hasn't even been built yet let alone flown for the first time. They may have problems,
94 Trent900 : I have to disagree with you there my friend. From experience Airbus are much more comfortable to fly in. Take the 320 for example. Even though the cab
95 Post contains images Lazybones : FrendlySkies, that is the most ridiculous comparison i've ever read. How do you define better when talking about A/C There are just too many factors t
96 ConcordeBoy : A340's are much quieter to fly in then 777's, you haven't got the continuous moan from the engines in your ears for 12 hours etc etc... ...plenty of p
97 Udo : The 737NG is better than the A320. I'm sure you can exactly explain the details of that rather generalized and unprofessional statement... The 757 is
98 AAgent : So... Since it appears that so many are certain that Airbus is destined to win the AC order, I guess I'll have to root for the underdog, in this case,
99 Post contains images Milan320 : I wouldn't be surprised if AC purchased the 7E7 (787) given that Canada's Minister of Transport,Jean Lapierre along with Robert Milton are pushing the
100 N328KF : Milan320: Julius Caesar was a saint in his book, too.
101 AussieItaliano : "Nobody can deny these facts, just look at the numbers." What numbers do you have to substantiate these facts? I would like to know to what you are re
102 Western737 : Naturally that everybody included myself saying every aircraft are great or best ever built each time it introduced. Yet, I still considered window si
103 NorCalSF : Here's another article from Dow Jones: TORONTO -- Air Canada plans to purchase 50 wide-body aircraft to service its expanding international network, t
104 Post contains images AC7E7 : What will happen shortly, however, is a decision on the type of aircraft to be part of the long-term fleet renewal plan. ...I'm getting goosebumps....
105 Planemaker : The following was in FI today... The new widebody order was agreed to by creditors as part of Air Canada’s restructuring; the carrier emerged from b
106 Atmx2000 : I thought the US and Canada already had open skies. Does Canada want fifth freedom rights?
107 Post contains images Lazybones : if they are relying on passengers' preference. You hit the nail right on the head! But for the opposite reason. Airlines don't actually give a toss wh
108 AC7E7 : You hit the nail right on the head! But for the opposite reason. Airlines don't actually give a toss what pax think in that regard because they know w
109 N1120A : >The one plane people don't give nearly enough attention to when the argue A vs B is the new A340-600HGW, the 380MT version going into service this ye
110 Post contains links FriendlySkies : I'm talking about performance. An aircraft isn't built to make pax happy, that's up to the airlines. An aircraft is designed to perform at the highest
111 Sebring : Air Canada has operated Boeing 767s and Airbus 340s across the Pacific even though they are a bit slower than other, larger Boeing products. It makes
112 Yyz717 : Given that AC already operates the 333/343/345, it seems logical that the 332 (or the A350) is the best fit for AC. I presume that the A350 will still
113 Post contains images AirbusfanYYZ : AAgent, There is only one "Big B" and he lives in Mumbai. I can't believe how many of you on a.net are all worked up into a lather regarding this "new
114 Atmx2000 : Ordering the 787 alongside an existing fleet of 333/343/345 simply adds unnecessary fleet complexity. Hmm, they haven't had a problem operating a larg
115 Post contains images Propulsion : I hope they go 787. It would be nice to see a North American carrier order this plane in large quanities.
116 Post contains images N328KF : Propulsion: No kidding. I'm at ORD, so we don't see many CO types here, and I'd like to fly on the 787 without going to Japan or China. Not that I wou
117 AC1 : Airbusfanyyz, we are "worked up in a lather" because this is a "huge" order on several fronts. 1) The very tense fight between Airbus and Boeing is on
118 Rj111 : >The 737NG is better than the A320.
119 LH477 : I hope AC goes with any Airbus product. If past history is any indication, they will get a better deal from Airbus then Boeing. It would be a bit of s
120 N328KF : LH477: Historical trends in this sense are no reason to "hope" for it. With estimated lower unit and operating costs, your argument is hogwash.
121 Post contains images Udo : Lower fuel burn, more range, more capacity on the best selling models (unless you are U2) for the 737. Better dispatch, actual engine choice for the A
122 Milan320 : I am not sure about A350 though, but window size might be one of many factors on decision by AC if they are relying on passengers' preference. I don't
123 Post contains images RJ111 : One of which bailed on the 777 because of the screwup of an engine builder, Remeber that original order for 20 A342's by NW? .....the A343 was lucky t
124 Post contains images Udo : Half the time the FAs tell the people to pull down the window shades to watch a movie, and very few people sit and stare out the window. In the end it
125 Columba : Like I said above it is old news. Here is the Bloomberg release from December : Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Star Alliance, the world's biggest airline grou
126 YVR99 : OK Columba, the press release from Star does tell us that Star members will negotiate together but it does not give us any details as to possible orde
127 Post contains images Olympus69 : I am not sure about A350 though, but window size might be one of many factors on decision by AC if they are relying on passengers' preference. If wind
128 FriendlySkies : True. But the A320 family and the A330 are also known for high level performance. And not every Boeing derivative has reached highest performance leve
129 AC7E7 : What it will come down to for AC is two things: 1) Price - Will Boeing and Airbus be able to offer the best price to AC. 2) Cost Savings - Will the 78
130 Hjulicher : I think that maybe the Boeing is more viable because of the commanality the pilots using those planes will have. They are replacing Boeing's not Airbu
131 AC7E7 : The only pic I've seen of the A350 was an A330 with A350 written on the side. Airbus has said that it would not go into service until 2009 or 2010 or
132 Iwok : The 737-200 and the 747-400 did not have fleet commonality, unlike the A320 and A330. Again, once a fleet reaches about 35 aircraft commonality is not
133 Columba : OK Columba, the press release from Star does tell us that Star members will negotiate together but it does not give us any details as to possible orde
134 777ER : After reading reply #83, it hit me that the Star Alliance are planning a combined order for either the B787 or A350, could this proposed 50 aircraft o
135 Trent900 : 777ER, Passengers flying with EasyJet over here have commented on how more comfortable their new 319's are compared with the 737-700's. Wider isle and
136 AC1 : Regarding post 129, I think AC7E7 is right, but it comes down to available resources at both Airbus and Boeing. "Being lazy" with refurbishing older p
137 SNATH : Take the 320 for example. Even though the cabin is around only 4 inches wider then the 737 it is very noticable from a passengers point of view I've f
138 Post contains images Udo : I'm sure that non aviation people would rather prefer to hear the engines moaning sound, instead of not hearing the engine But one CAN hear the engine
139 AC7E7 : Interesting information you provide. What source of information do you have on this? I would like to check it out. Southwest has a boat load of 737's
140 AC1 : I highly doubt AC will order 777s. They passed on them once before in 1994-1995 and because of that it's unlikely we'll ever see a 777 in AC colours.
141 AC7E7 : I wouldn't be too sure. If AC is going to get A350s, we will likely see them get rid of their A330s. It is up to Boeing to improve relations between t
142 Dynkrisolo : I've flown on a LH B737 and an A319 within three days and on a UA B737 and a A320 the same day. I never notice any difference in the seat widths betw
143 AC1 : No need for AC to get rid of the A330s- it's all the same in terms of training, costs, parts etc. Those planes are suited for the Atlantic and they ma
144 Ken777 : Watch the exchange rate. The dollar keeps falling and the Euro (and Canadian Dollar) keep climbing. Add to that the difference in list prices for the
145 Post contains images Airbusfanyyz : AC is gearing up for major pushes into South Asia, Orient, and South America especially out of their main hub, YYZ. I can't image the entire 50 plane
146 Sebring : AC1, very astute observations. Boeing is seen as a less flexible negotiator. Again, I refer to Milton's book, and I have heard again from the recent n
147 Post contains images AirbusfanYYZ : Sebring since you're Canadian, it is honour not honor. Cheers, Kaz
148 AC7E7 : Perhaps Boeing is becoming aware that since they are pegging the future of their commercial airplane division on the 787 they will be willing to negot
149 Tripple7 : "Watch the exchange rate. The dollar keeps falling and the Euro (and Canadian Dollar) keep climbing. Add to that the difference in list prices for the
150 AirbusCanada : "For the past 50 years, airplanes have looked the same. Boeing has made a leap streamlining a product that needed a new look. The 7E7 is a good choinc
151 SunriseValley : I tried to point out the implications of the major change in exchange rates in my recent posting warning of the effect of FX on the dynamics of the ma
152 Post contains images N328KF : AirbusCanada: This has them both beat:
153 Lt-AWACS : OFFTOPIC -"As well, Canada never withdrew from the Iraq war because we never participated."- Well to be truly honest Canada did play in the war, as I
154 AC7E7 : Well to be truly honest Canada did play in the war, as I flew on 16 combat sorties over Iraq with Canadian Air Force members on board. The E-3, due to
155 AirbusfanYYZ : AC7E7, Participated and had our sons and daughters die for a personal vendetta between the Bush family and Saddam?! Well maybe you should have gone ov
156 PennPal : Lt.AWACS: Why should it matter "how much of the 7E7 is built in Canada..."??? How many Airbus products are made there??? Why isn't that a factor when
157 Lt-AWACS : It does matter Pennpal, but the A350 is more of a "paper airplane" now than the 7E7, and if I am not mistaken, most the labour division of the 7E7 has
158 Milan320 : AC1: I highly doubt AC will order 777s. They passed on them once before in 1994-1995 and because of that it's unlikely we'll ever see a 777 in AC colo
159 Post contains images AC7E7 : Kaz, Let me remind you that "our sons and daughters" are professional soldiers who have volunteered to be in the military. They are offered a great ed
160 Milan320 : Participated and had our sons and daughters die for a personal vendetta between the Bush family and Saddam?! Well maybe you should have gone over too
161 AC7E7 : Very good point AC1, and for those who haven't read Milton's book, I highly recommend it. Milton is bashed all the time in the media, but I have to sa
162 Sebring : AC1: I highly doubt AC will order 777s. They passed on them once before in 1994-1995 and because of that it's unlikely we'll ever see a 777 in AC colo
163 Dalecary : Sebring, are you sure the 346HGW is available to AC in 2006??? When are EK to start receiving theirs? I would have thought AC could get their hands on
164 Post contains images Sllevin : Southwest has a boat load of 737's and they claim to gain huge cost savings. Is this because of commonality? Yes, but it also matter greatly for the r
165 SNATH : When the FAs are serving drinks on the 32x, you can squeeze past the service carts. You can't on the 737. And how does this improve my flying experien
166 RayChuang : I think AC really needs to know just how much commonality there is between the A350 and the A330/A340 planes AC now flies. If the commonality is less
167 AC1 : - Sebring: "As for the 787/350 competition, it will be driven the winner of the 773er vs 346HGW competition." I believe it to be the opposite: the win
168 AC7E7 : I believe it to be the opposite: the winner of the 787/A350 competition will determine if AC purchases the 773 or 346HGW. Basically, if AC orders the
169 Sebring : Sorry, I stand by what I say. AC's analysis of the 787/350 is ambivalent. They can take either. And they like both front end planes, too. But what wil
170 AC1 : Well, it seems there are just too many options for AC at this point! Just to throw in the wildcard, a source told me this week that AC is going to acq
171 AC7E7 : Sorry, I stand by what I say. AC's analysis of the 787/350 is ambivalent. They can take either. And they like both front end planes, too. But what wil
172 PlaneSmart : I'm with you Sebring. It's the package, NOT the plane that will determine the AC order. B can offer a 787/777 package with zero commonality. A can off
173 BigD : AC1, How reliable is your source? I'd love to know where they're getting 16 767's from? For the past number of weeks, all similar posts on this topic
174 AC1 : What would do it for me would be an order for 8 A380-800s to be deployed on YVR-HKG, YVR-NRT, YYZ-LHR, YUL-CDG. What are the chances of tacking this o
175 AC1 : Big D: A very reliable source....but who knows? Things change quickly. The 350/787 order will be announced "by the end of the year"
176 Post contains images AC7E7 : What would do it for me would be an order for 8 A380-800s to be deployed on YVR-HKG, YVR-NRT, YYZ-LHR, YUL-CDG. What are the chances of tacking this o
177 Sebring : Just to throw in the wildcard, a source told me this week that AC is going to acquire 16 more 767s for summer operations. There are not enough pilots
178 FLYYUL : 16 767s? A very exciting number indeed!
179 Bmacleod : Wouldn't there be pressure from the the Martin government, trying ever harder to strengthen US-ties, toward AC for the 787? [Edited 2005-02-05 20:13:2
180 AirCascadia : Any new news on this order or AC's aircraft leases to add for this coming summer season?
181 ChrisA330 : So far one announcement of an A340-300 being added to the fleet next month. Apparently ex-Air Jamaica, MSN 048. It's an earlier build with shorter ran
182 Aseem : currently AC does YYZ-HKG and YYZ-DEL alternating between A343 and A345. Are there any plans to induct more A345. I have traveled on one of these flig
183 Zvezda : Modern IFE can be fitted to an A340-300 just as easily as an A340-500. And, yes, AC is reportedly in the market to lease additional A340-500s.
184 Aseem : And, yes, AC is reportedly in the market to lease additional A340-500s. where are they getting them from? SQ or EK, I presume SQ is looking for a subs
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