777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11350 posts, RR: 17 Posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13274 times:
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Boeing is in talks with QF about the proposed B747ADV. Boeing also talked about the B787. The B747ADV will be able to carry upto 500 passengers, and using the same engines and cockpit technology as the B787. The 747ADV will be able to fly further then 14,816 kms. The A380 can fly upto 14,800 kms.
Antares From Australia, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 1402 posts, RR: 40 Reply 3, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13024 times:
Dream on. I've been to Dixon briefings. The 747ADV has no credibility at Qantas, their having been through umpteen versions of what Boeing might do to keep the line relevant to the airline's future requirements.
HOWEVER we need not be at all downhearted about the chances of the 787. They are probably getting better all the time. Qantas is a large user of middle aged 767s, and may well be tempted by all of the variants within the next seven to eight years.
I wish I could say the same for the 777-300ER and eventually the -200LR. Can't see any real signs of hope as yet....but fingers crossed.
PANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3998 posts, RR: 93 Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 12791 times:
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That would be the same QANTAS that bought the passenger version of the 744ER so out of those "11 variations" they're talking to the one airline that actually bought one, ok, not the Adv but an upgraded 744, same day as they bought the A380 too. I believe QF would have spent more than 60 seconds deciding on a $1bn fleet investment.
LeanOfPeak From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 509 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12377 times:
I am sure Qantas doesn't have anything like that. They will say that there are certain performance and noise criteria the aircraft must meet for them to purchase it. They couldn't care less how those criteria are met.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 65 Reply 12, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12258 times:
Boeing can either go for a minimal investment or a much more serious redevelopment. In the former case, they don't need to sell many to break even. In the latter case, the number needed to be sold is much higher. I'm sure Boeing right now is talking to the airlines to see which choice makes sense. My guess is the minimal redevelopment.
ORD2PHL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 310 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11529 times:
Boeing isn't officially offering anything yet, I think they are merely trying to feel potential customers out again for what they might want, it's amazing how little actual FACTS there are in this thread....
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11350 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11162 times:
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That's the thing. There's going to be almost nothing advanced about it except the engines. as well as new cockpit technology that the B787 will have.
I'm not always right, but QF does have a tender out for the A340-600 and 777-300ER to replace 747s in the medium term.
Only the B 747-300s, not 400s. And the B 747-300s have just recieved their upgrades and they will not be leaving anytime soon. The tender is for the B743s and some of QFs oldest B744s
The one being offered now is a very low change model. Two plugs and new engines, and that's it. No new systems, no FBW, no different materials, nothing. The B747ADV will use the same cockpit technology that will be used in the B787
Your opinion doesn't really matter on this Gigneil, everyones opinion matters. Please refer to rule #1.
JDD1 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 94 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10886 times:
Whilst I believe that some airlines see a need for an airplane of 747ADV size I don't think that it can be a 747Adv. The 747 was certificated on 30 Dec 1969. Type certificate A20WE. This TC covers all 747 models. The -400 version was certificated to Amendment 25-59 except for some 28 exceptions. One of these exceptions - Damage tolerance and fatigue evaluation - was at Amd 22. A 747ADV would still be at Amd 22 for damage tolerance because they would need a new structure to meet today's standards which are near Amd 100. I don't think that either the FAA, European nor Australian authorities will allow Grandfather rights for another version of the 747 where the structure except for the stretched upper deck is still a 1960s design. I have been told that this is one of the reasons that the -500 was dropped as Boeing had to admit quietly that they didn't know if they could convince the FAA to accept Grandfather rights yet again. Even if they could modify the -400 enough to convince the authorities and the airlines and at reasonable cost, they would perhaps have the A380-700 to contend with. Remember the 747SP was developed to keep the DC10-30 out of certain 747 markets.
PANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3998 posts, RR: 93 Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10886 times:
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I'm not always right, but QF does have a tender out for the A340-600 and 777-300ER to replace 747s in the medium term
Gigneil you are right. They have an RFP out for A346 & 773ER with a decision expected around May, I believe. Correct me if wrong on decision timing.
Boeing offered the jet to induce Qantas not to buy the A380. But the price for the 744ER (which is a damn good plane) was so low, Qantas bought both, and made Seattle look real dumb
Antares. That is a fact, no doubt. If I may differ a little in my interpretation though. IIRC one of the Boeing sales team admitted that the loss of the campaign did "hurt" though that was more that they went with the A380 & A330. From a financial point of view Boeing still did ok as at that time each 747 delivered contributed $.08-$.12 per share to Boeings earnings* and Airbus could have walked away with the entire order.
Back on topic and one quote from the article stands out:
"They have (also) expressed an interest to us in the Boeing 777-300ER and we have just mentioned this airplane to them, 747 Advanced
That covers it well, a Boeing executive being quoted as saying that they put the concept to QF while responding to the 773ER RFP. Later in the article Mr Feren then says:
"We're having conversations with airline customers, we're putting together what we think is a concept that we're going to take to the market place and we will see what feedback we get,"
Product development involves that and given QFs current 744 fleet and that they were launch customer for the 744ER it's quite understandable that Boeing would target them. We've heard nothing from QF though. I think Mr Feren's main reason for being in SYD is in response to QFs RFP and to pitch the 773ER and 787. It would be good to have a more substantial report though.
Just my $.02
* Source: Boeing Co. SEC & Regulatory Filings
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
25 7E72004: I hope the 747ADV goes through...once the 717 production is done, the only ones left will be the 767, 777, 737, and 747 (with the 767 probably ending
26 Trent900: I think if QF had not purchased A380's they probably would go for this. Flying an A380 and 747ADV side by side does not make sense to me. T.
27 Ozair: I could see Qantas going for the 747ADV due to a number of factors but what is more exciting for Qantas would be the 787 purchase. I understand that n
28 Boeing Nut: I disagree with some of you that the wing for the 747AVD needs to be a new design. It's a good design still as it is. Although switching out the tripl
29 Anstar: QF have already made a decision. It's called the A380. The A380 will replace the 744's on their highest density routes. This will free up a few 744's
30 Jupiter2: Ozair, They will never be allowed to operate these aircraft in the curfew hours in SYD, it would open up a can of worms that no government, nor commun
31 DfwRevolution: The B747 Advanced needs a new wing. Definitely. Why? It is more aerodynamically efficency than many wings built in the last decade... though structura
32 Ozair: Jupiter2, I was under the impression that certain aircraft were allowed to operate during curfew times due to low noise levels? In regards to the 747A
33 The Coachman: United Airline, your posts are full of hearsay and opinions that really have very little logical basis which you then classify and assert almost as fa
34 Cedarjet: Before I quote myself from another thread, I can't pass up the opportunity to have a pop with DfwRevolution. Sir, you cannot claim that QF play it fas
35 Lehpron: >>"The B747ADV will be able to carry upto 500 passengers..."
36 Antares: Let me explain why I think the 787 is growing in favour for a Qantas order. It becomes available when on current growth Sydney is starting to look lik
37 Cedarjet: Canberra to LAX? To Hong Kong? Dude, you're tripping. Have you actually visited your nation's capital? You think a few five-storey office blocks and a
38 Gigneil: Gigneil, everyones opinion matters. Not when the facts are contrary. No matter what United Airline's opinion on Boeing's tactic in re: a new wing for
39 Gigneil: Meanwhile the 787-3 is the logical replacement for 762s on inter city and trans Tasman routes. The 787-3 holds almost 100 more seats than the 762, and
40 Antares: Cedarjet, I trip a lot and I think you're totally out of touch with what is happening both in the capital and at Sydney. Convenient new slots are goin
41 N1120A: >So with A380 & A346/773ER for long haul...why on earth would they want a 747ADV???< Because as it is, the 744 has lower seat mile than the A346/773ER
42 QANTASforever: Cedarjet - He might not be as high on drugs as you think. There has been talk for some time about upgrading CBR for international heavy flights. The l
43 QFA001: QF is tired of the product ... I say QF is tired of the product because they've borne the brunt of Boeing's 11 different marketing campaigns for new 7
44 Scotron11: It seems this 747ADV concept raises a lot of comment. Maybe this was the true so-called "dreamliner"! I am excited about the 747ADV as I absolutely lo
45 Irishpower: Regarding the whole "new wing thing---(hey that rhymed)"--I wouldn't be so sure Boeing won't design or upgrade the wing. Right now the 747ADV. concept
46 DAYflyer: Ok time for my two pennies worth here. I don't know sqaut about QF, have never been down under and have never flown anywhere on that airline, but IF I
47 PVG: Can I ask a stupid question? Why does it cost so much to develop a new wing? I mean, couldn't they just refine an existing design and use more modern
48 Gigneil: Because as it is, the 744 has lower seat mile than the A346/773ER and the 747ADV will cut those even further. Lower seat mile costs are possible, but
49 ClassicLover: Australians tend to fly a lot. Part of the reason is because the country is so large that flying is usually the cheapest and best option to get anywhe