Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
EU: AZ Lost $1.17Billion For 2004  
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

According to Reuters, the EU commission has reported that AZ's net loss for 2004 was 850M Euros ($1.074Billion). Separately, the commission has called for an independent expert to probe Fintecna's (an Italian state-owned company) 221M Euro ($288M) investment in AZ unit AZ Servizi, suspecting state aid, in violation of EU rules.

Only last week, Berlusconi was stating he wanted a AF/KLM-AZ full merger. I think we understand why.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

I don´t think it will be a good idea for AF/KLM to merge with AZ. If they will do, the problems will beginn for them.

Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Air France-KLM should acquire the AZ assets (the brand/logo included) and reform it as a new company.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineBkonner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

Howdy,

In another forum it has been reported that LH wants to get rid of it's BMI shares. They may be forced to buy the carrier in a stock deal made several years ago with BMI. LH owns 30 per cent of BMI (SAS owns 20 per cent). AF would be crazy to buy AZ. Its just asking for trouble. BMI I think is another story. While I think LH is crazy to get rid of its BMI holding, AF might want to take a look at this carrier. If the EU and the US ever finally negotiate an agreement, this would give AF access to such a key market. Not to mention, it would give AF lots of valuable slots at LHR.

Bkonner


User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

The way it stands right now is that AZ wants the EU commission to complete its investigation of their reorganization by April/May so they can begin a recapitalization of the flying unit. If the EU commission decides to do a real "in-depth" probe, which can take up to 18 months, then AZ are in deeper trouble.

As of now, the EU commission has called for an independent expert to probe the investment in AZ Servizi, being made by state-owned company Fintecna. Also, they have previously stated that they have no evidence that the planned re-cap of the airline has any letters of intent from any investors other than the Italian government.


User currently offlineTripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

It´s getting really pathetic with this airline. So no private investors lining up. What will be next?, the Italian government keep on pouring tax payers money in this airline. I think it is time to pull the plug and let the airline go belly up. Sad for all the employees, but it is rediculous that this oversubsidized airline stays alive.

User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

J.C Spinetta, AFKL's CEO clearly stated that a merger AFKL-AZ "is out of question".
AFKL is doing very well, the first results of the group in terms of costs savings are well above all the expectations.
Spinetta is not crazy. AFKL is a private airline now; He will not take the risk to bring trouble and endanger the whole group just to buy a loss making, unruly, and unmanageable airline.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 6953 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1933 times:

AF / KL dont need to buy AZ, they just have to siphon off the business through hub operations like they do today. Today more people fly from the Milan catchment area to the US via France than do directly.

The European Aviation industry is not a charity. It is time for AZ to be allowed to die so it can be re-born as a young vibrant carrier, similar to SN, LX, or even perhaps follow an EI model. Whatever happens watch LIN and FCO be invaded by EZY, with Bergamo and Ciampino becoming significantly larger FR hubs overnight. MXP?? where?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1907 times:

Such companys should not be allowed to be around anymore. More than 1 Bn$ in deths in only one year.
AF+KL should be really aware and not save them.

Best if they close down ops, and restart as a small regional carrier.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4731 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

i wonder what everyone would be saying had it been their national airline that was facing these charges...

lets say lufthansa was in the shitter, would you say "let it die" or the same for Air France?

funny how single-sighted...



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineJames768 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1867 times:

Alitalia744

If Lufthansa or Air France were, as you put it 'in the shitter' then yes we would...

But then, they're not are they?


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 6953 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Yes, I would - This is EI's last chance saloon also. If they mess this one up they should go bankrupt also. SN is now a better carrier than it was previously.

AZ - perhaps you are being 'single sighted'.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineFlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7379 posts, RR: 57
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1866 times:

Alitalia744,

I understand what you mean, but the problem is that AZ has never earned a single Euro... nor a single Lira in past . ! AZ is not in a temporary difficult situaion : it's in chronical mess for decades !

For an Airline, Being "National" is not a handicap. But it doesn't mean also that it can last for ever without any real serious reorganisation plan, saving costs plan etc... and obviously AZ (and all its employees) doesn't want to face the reality of 2005.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 6953 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

FlySCC - The last thing that AZ needs is talks of another reorganization plan. what happens is that they go from plan to plan without any implementation ever happening.

Alitalia need two things

Strong Management unafraid to stand up to the staff when taking serious surgical action on the company.
Strong Management that are not afraid to tell the government to back off.







The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineTripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

Alitalia744

I think you are the one that is single-sighted.
I do not agree with you. If KLM was such badly and shitty run as AZ I would be too ashamed to have any feeling of national pride for KLM. I really do not understand why Italians are proud of AZ. It has been one big mess and costs them many tax euro's. Heck, I would not even be surprised if I as a Dutch tax payer somehow through the EU contribute to the big black money hole called AZ. This airline should be finished off.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Does AZ Have A Lounge For Magnifica Pax In EWR? posted Sun Oct 1 2006 03:57:17 by FlyTPA
AZ Refuses Compensation For Damages posted Thu Aug 31 2006 19:44:23 by Dtonelli75
"Lost" B+ For Effort On Aviation Scenes. posted Fri May 27 2005 07:56:41 by Zippyjet
Interesting Stats For 2004 Prez Race posted Sat Apr 2 2005 03:46:49 by Concentriq
Embraer Net Profit For 2004 Up 113.7% posted Fri Mar 18 2005 04:29:37 by PPVRA
LH Reports A Good Profit For 2004 posted Tue Mar 1 2005 19:41:12 by KLMA330
EU Jet Fuel Tax For Helping The Poor posted Mon Feb 14 2005 17:29:55 by Hardiwv
US Airline Losses For 2004- 9.21 Billion. posted Wed Feb 2 2005 15:46:17 by Juventus
A & B Sales And Deliveries For 2004 posted Wed Jan 12 2005 11:30:24 by Scbriml
Boeing 777 Orders For 2004 & 2005 posted Fri Jan 7 2005 02:23:53 by PANAM_DC10