Bluepoole From South Africa, joined Jan 2005, 51 posts, RR: 3 Posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11110 times:
First of all, I've been visiting this site for almost two years - reading the forums, enjoying the photos, and even getting a couple of my own photos accepted into the database. I've finally signed up as a First Class member and look forward to many years as an active member on A.net.
Then, for my first forum, I want to raise the question: why don't any US carriers fly to South Africa? South African Airways flies to New York and Atlanta, and also has codeshare agreements with some US airlines for onward travel from JFK or ATL, and also for travel to South Africa.
I've been wondering why major US airlines like American, Continental and Delta don't fly to JNB directly. Is there any specific reason? Perhaps they don't see it as a profitable route?
Bluepoole From South Africa, joined Jan 2005, 51 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 10877 times:
Thank you for all the replies so far...
Boeing787 - yes, you are correct: SAA codeshares with Delta. Cool username that you have!
Leelaw - you may have a point, the sanctions against South Africa could have been the reason (or one of the reasons) why the US airlines all decided not to expand their route networks to South Africa. It is a pity that this never changed after all the political changes that took place in our country and South Africa became a "ballplayer" in the international arena again.
It would be awesome to see an American 777 here...or any other type from any other US carrier for that matter!
AT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10793 times:
I believe SA)">UA got the routes from PA after they went out. Back in the early nineties they (UA) were considering flying to JNB but at that time they shelved it because of capacity and union issues. Now that SA is joining star alliance I don't think we'll ever see SA)">UA in Africa.
CPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6395 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10759 times:
As far as I know, SA)">AA wants to fly to SA with the 772 - but the pilots contracts states that no flights can operate beyond a certain time limit (14-16 hours I think it was), without some specific criterias being met. It's those criterias that SA)">AA are working on ironing out - at least, that's what I heard, last time this discussion came up here.
Mcmahonsmr From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10746 times:
I'd say if we were to see any American carrier opening up a US-JNB/CPT route it would probably be CO. Problem is that an ExpressJet and Boeing 757-200 don't quite have the range . . . and those 7e7s aren't coming for a while . . .
Clipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 683 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10718 times:
Pan Am operated a weekly trip to JNB with stops at DKR, ROB,ACC, LOS and DOU. We also operated a weekly flight to NBO. We never used the SP on those routes because we didn't need the range with all of those stops. For the crews, those were 13 day patterns. We quit flying to Africa more out of poor economics than anything else.
Bicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 10675 times:
I assume the Delta codeshare will end when SAA joins the Star Alliance in the next few months. Has SAA determined when they'll move their flight from Atlanta to either IAD (Washington-Dulles) or Chicago? I'd love to have United fly its own aircraft to South Africa but I'm sure they'll only codeshare on SAA.
Malaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10561 times:
Aww I miss Pan Am, it seems Pan Am was the airline that flew to the places you would never picture a US airline at. my favorite Pan Am stop is BEY. on the other hand, did the AF Concorde fly to DKR at one time?
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 34128 posts, RR: 70
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10536 times:
As stated, American has expressed interest in flying to South Africa (both CPT and JNB) from Miami, but there are logistical issues and using a 772 just wouldn't make the profits. However, with the 787 coming, and an order from AA inevitable, this is definitley the type of route that AA could use it on.
Alb222 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10531 times:
DL has the rights to South Africa as part of their purchase of the Pan Am routes. The route had been stopped by the time SA)">DL got it and no direct service by any carrier including SA was allowed until 1994 when apartheid ended. SA's first codeshare on the route was AA through JFK and MIA. SA)">DL started the codeshare in about 1999 with ATL and JFK. The ATL flight stopped at FLL until 9/11.
SA)">DL has experimented and flown their 777 ATL-JNB. Currently, the 343-600 SA is using on the ATL trip requires a stop in both directions. Direct service to CPT ends 2/6 and will require a change of aircraft in JNB.
AT502B From South Africa, joined Dec 2004, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10511 times:
I flew the CPT-Atlanta flight last week and the Flight attendant mentioned that they were moving to Washington Dulles this summer. I hope they change there Eastbound transatlantic flight departure time from 10am. It's almost impossible to connect to that flight from anywhere other than the immediate area. It also makes the Jet Lag worse as you leave in the morning and arrive 17hours later at 8am! I prefer to fly Eastbound on the JFK flight(departs at 8pm)- I find the Jet Lag easier to handle. Also the stop in Cape Verde is a killer- An hour and a half stuck in the plane.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10419 times:
PA did flight to JNB via GIG in the 60's - the flight to JNB was revived in the 80's with a stop in Monrovia, it was operated by a 747 classic. That continued to operate until PA went under, I believe, but it was not taken over by UA when they inherited the route.
In the early 90's, after apartheid was dismantled, a US carrier called USAfrica Airways operated MD11's (bought/leased from AA) from IAD to JNB via SID(? or possibly LBW), but it didn't last long (SAA basically killed them off, as they tend to do with most unwanted rivals on their milsch-cow routes). It wasn't a daily service, and IAD as a gateway didn't have the pull of JFK or MIA.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13692 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10393 times:
I would also suggest that since codeshares cover the USA-SA market with direct or with stops in Europe, there is little need for the costly investment in a/c, crews, ground services, marketing costs for the very finalcially strapped USA based airlines to consider what could be a very limited additional demand route/market. This market has probably been further reduced by the post-9/11 additional visa limits.
Imonti From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10334 times:
South African airways in recent times have been looking for 4 more 744 to use to Singapore and washington and they will keep the atlanta and new york routes, however if this bears any fruit i will be amazed.
They will move to Washington from atlanta but currently the route to atl is as "profitable" as it can be, if they dont start a third service.