PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1950 posts, RR: 26 Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5379 times:
BA already knows that tomorrow's LGW-TPA-LGW has mechanical problems. They have arranged a charter replacement, but in all Economy configuration. Business Class passengers are being involuntarily downgraded with an offer of GBP400 voucher towards future flights, or GBP300 in cash. They are not being offered the difference in ticketed fare value, which is considerably more than GBP400. Is this legal?
The Special Services department in New York also advised me that new commercial policy is not to involuntarily reroute when a replacement aircraft is secured, even if the replacement aircraft does not provide the same classes of service. BA says that commercial policy will not allow a reroute even to a fellow OneWorld partner.
Doesn't this diminish the value of the partnership?
747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5337 times:
In my opinion, absolutely. I, for one, have never felt that Oneworld, for a variety of reasons was as strong as the Star Alliance and Skyteam. I think your situation is more proof.However, I wonder what would happen if you oursued this matter with BA, perhaps they would do something more. Especially if you are a member of their frequent fly program.
One of the big drawbacks is that BA/AA due to lack of US antitrust immunity and their hands are tied behind their backs a to how much and how well Oneworld can compete with the other alliances.
Flighttime From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5007 times:
PA110 can you absolutely confirm this? Because if this is true my colleagues will be even more disgusted at how our so called 'management' are treating our customers. I know for a fact that BA pax ticketed on cancelled flights to/fro SFO where being rebooked on VS, but I believe that initially this was not offered. Believe me when I tell you that there is a MAJOR crisis within manpower planning at the moment. A crisis that is genuinely frightening us crew. Are you aware that despite the company saying that there's a shortage of crews, sickness is well below average, many crew have wasted days in theri roster (up to three days) and we are still being rostered ground duty to attend, wait for it, an 'Owning Our Futre' one day course? This problem, suggested by some, will last for three months and the summer schedule will bring a slightly increased flying programme! Wonder how many heads will roll for this one...
Speedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4963 times:
Before you start bashing the airline, I would suggest that you check your information carefully. Unfortunately we are often accused of things when the passengers have either not paid attention or totally ignored the information being given. I suggest you check the BA website for full details of the situation, often in cases like this the company provides much detail there.
More to the point, I will quote what it says in part:
Due to operational circumstances, the services listed below will be operated on behalf of British Airways by Euro Atlantic.
The BA2167 London Gatwick to Tampa on 3, 4, 5, 6 February 2005.
The BA2166 Tampa to London Gatwick on 3, 4, 5, 6 February 2005.
Euro Atlantic operates with a business class and economy configuration Boeing 767 aircraft. Every effort will be made to ensure the substitute aircraft has the same features as a British Airways aircraft, however, some of the products may differ. Duty Free sales on-board will not be available - customers should be advised to purchase any Duty Free goods at Gatwick or Tampa before boarding the aircraft. .
Club World customers travelling on the affected services, who booked prior to 2 February may:
Accept travel on the original flight operated by Euro Atlantic. Club World customers who choose this option, regardless of whether they travel in business class or economy, are entitled to downgrade compensation (paid by the airport on the day of travel) and difference in fare only :
Please don't go around giving the impression that the airline is just writing its passengers off because I can personally say that we always try our best to assist.
Take it from someone on the ground, be happy that you guys have the opportunity to say what you think and make some input into the operations thru the one day forum. We have heard about them and many of us would be happy to take part, but as yet, very few of us have had the opportunity. Based on what I've heard it is largely office based staff, who have the least interaction with passengers and don't deal with the issues that cabin crew and ground staff often encounter. I too share your dismay at the manpower planning, but don't think this is the forum for it. Use the opportunity at 'Owning Our Future' to have your say, something I hope to be able to do.
Edina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4919 times:
Certainly out of TPA you can be sure that any inconveniences will be smoothed out as much as possible.......TPA have one of the best BA ground teams in the US, led by the best Station Manager in the Americas - a very professional team who will do anything to make life easier for the customer and colleagues in other areas.
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
BA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4902 times:
interesting - good detail, Spedbird...
but even if it was the situation listed at the top, if you held a J-class booking for that flight and discovered you were going to be involuntarily downgraded with no/insufficient compensation, then you could use the flex option and go to another carrier, surely?
Speedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4855 times:
It's difficult to say definite yes or no, I would say it would be dependent on the circumstances. However, the usual policy leans towards compensation of the passenger and if you are booked in J or F, then it is a generous compensation plus as it says above the fare difference.
Downgrading passengers is never something we like to do and so always seek to ensure that compensate the person and encourage them to continue to use our service.
Monkeyboi From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 457 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4542 times:
PA110, BA's only liability is to get you from A to B. It ends there. It can quite freely cancel it's flight tomorrow and not make any arrangements for you and simply rebook you on a flight another day and offer you the 'statutory compensation' (approx GBP80.00 per day).
I think that the fact that they have charted an aircraft to keep the flight to schedule as well as offer you GBP400.00 compensation is over and above its obligations. I guess that at short notice BA would have to take which ever aircraft they can find to charter, what ever its config.
I'm sure that if you are particularly concerned with flying CLUB you could call BA reservations and ask them to book you on their flight the day after.
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1950 posts, RR: 26 Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4465 times:
Flighttime, I can absolutely confirm this...
Speedbird2155, shut up and read before you shoot your mouth off...
Monkeyboi, Listen and learn something.
This information is completley accurate. It affected two of my tour clients. I spoke with the Special Service desk who confirmed to me that new BA commercial directives dictate that passengers be offered GBP400 voucher or GBP300 cash for a voluntary downgrade, despite IATA regulations allowing a refund of the fare difference between classes of service. The specific aircraft assigned to today's TPA flight did not have a business class cabin.
That said - I used my personal contacts within BA to get to a very high ranking sales person, who offered to upgrade the passengers to First Class out of Miami, using her own budget. The stipulation being, that they would have to make their own way to Miami from Tampa, because interlining/involuntary rerouting was not going to be allowed in this instance. The passengers appreciated this very generous offer and took it.
Here's where the tale takes an amusing twist... Upon checkin in Miami this afternoon, my clients were told that BA had overbooked First Class by 1 passenger, and they were unable to accommodate them. But, they involuntary rerouted them to American - in First Class!!!
While this particular tale has a very happy ending, those that did not have access to personal contacts within BA would have had to be content with a very miserly compensation, that falls very far short of what they are actually entitled to by tariff regulations. I spoke to BA sales again, and confirmed that yes the passengers are entitled to the actual class of service differential, but the passenger would have to request it. BA was not going to offer it as a first option. I find this incredibly lacking.
KZBA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4384 times:
I'm curious to know what Special Services team you spoke to, since there is no SS in TPA.
When we started upgrading the LGW 777s to the new club seats, there were times that a city that normally had the new club would have received an aircraft with the cradle seats. At that time we still gave the 'downgrade' compensation even though they traveled in a business class seat. I never heard anything but kind remarks from our passengers when this happened.
I think the same thing applies here. We provided an aircraft that had a business class cabin and offered cash to make up for any inconvenience in the process. I'm not sure what all of the anger is for.
Britair From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 933 posts, RR: 17 Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4339 times:
PA110, I'm sorry, you cannot go around telling people to shut up listen to you when you have been re-iterating unsubstantiated information! The commercial policy as highlighted by Speedbird2155, is correct and valid. Invol downgrade compensation PLUS fare differential is applicable to our Club World passengers in this instance.
I work in Waterside in Sales at BA and have personally dealt with Club passengers this week on these affected Tampa flights and can assure you they are being dealt with fairly and are being appropriately compensated.
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1950 posts, RR: 26 Reply 14, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4315 times:
KZBA - What makes you think I would have called TPA? As a national tour operator, I called my contacts at your North American headquarters. Funny thing - the Special Services team shares space in the same building! (read sarcasm here).
And for the umpteenth time... according to the folks who have been assisting me for the past two days, today's flight is NOT configured for business class. If it had been, we would not be having this discussion.
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1950 posts, RR: 26 Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4288 times:
Britair - you need to bring this policy to the attention of the folks who have been handling the reaccomodation of passengers. I thought it was outrageous that passengers would not receive the classs of service differential automatically, so I called back just 45 minutes ago. Again, I was told, this time by an inside sales person that the offer was strictly the GBP400 voucher or GBP300 cash. There was absolutely no offer of class of service differential whatsoever. I think you folks need to smooth lines of communication within your own company. Please don't refer to this as unsubstantiated. I've been in this industry a very long time, part of it working for AF and SN. So I'm not simply running on assumptions here.
Speedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4197 times:
You've been trying to give a false impression of the airline and when it has been pointed out that you are wrong, you've taken to telling others to shut up and trying to find a way to justify your accusations when the airline's policy is displayed online for everyone to access and read and shows that your claims are not valid.
KZBA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4177 times:
Funny...I work in the NA headquarters. I've worked at Bulova for almost 9 years. The information that I have here is exactly what everyone else has said. It always bothers me when I hear people who are quick to judge someone or something based on one situation. To say that 'you folks need to smooth lines of communication within your own company' is so typical of this site. If you feel this strongly about what is happening with your tour group, you should contact customer relations, not pass blanketed statements.
Speedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4107 times:
It's good to hear from someone in the company over there. Unfortunately, PA110 seems to want to berate the airline and has choosen this situation to do so. Maybe if he spoke to the people he actually needs to speak to and stop trying to use 'an inside sales person', then he would know exactly what was happening and could have given his clients the correct information. I work in customer services and we have always given compensation plus the fare difference. This policy is, as said before, clearly stated on the BA website and if he took the time to read it, then there would be no need for confusion.
I'll shut up when you stop making false statements against the company I work for. Until then I will defend BA and proudly do so.
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1950 posts, RR: 26 Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4107 times:
I don't feel I should have to defend myself any further than I have already done. I spoke to Inside Sales at Bulova just around 2pm Pacific Time and was told that today's charter was not configured for Business Class. I specifically questioned the class of service differential and was told that the offer was 400voucher or 300cash - nothing more. I believe what you folks are telling me about the class of service rebate because it is much more in line with general industry standard. However this is not what was presented to either myself of my passengers.
I have no interest in 'bashing' BA because I continue to work with BA on an ongoing basis, and I'm not going to let this once incident alter an otherwise close working relationship. After all, my clients were handled exceptionally well, but only because of my own contacts within BA sales. My concern however, and my purpose for bringing this entire incident to this forum, was to highlight the fact that BA has made a commercial decision not to use the One-World alliance in order to reprotect premium passengers, but rather downgrade them and offer some form of compensation (the value of which obviously is subect to some confusion). I'm sorry if this diverged from the original topic and became an arguement about compensation, but believe me, there clearly is a problem here. The folks I spoke with just 2 hours ago reconfirmed that they were not prepared to give a class of service differential. I believe they are in error and that you folks are correct. However, whether you wish to believe it or not, this is actually what is being said at this time.
ANstar From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 4845 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3871 times:
And here are the latest round of cancellations on their website. Now hitting the premium routes..... BA really need to sort their *** out soon.
The following services are affected:
3 February 2005
BA 297 London Heathrow to Chicago
BA 005 London Heathrow to Narita
4 February 2005
BA 296 Chicago to London Heathrow
BA 297 London Heathrow to Chicago
5 February 2005
BA 239 London Heathrow to Boston
BA 296 Chicago to London Heathrow
BA 113 London Heathrow to New York (JFK)
6 February 2005
BA 116 New York (JFK) to London Heathrow
BA 185 London Heathrow to Newark
BA 006 Narita to London Heathrow
BA 212 Boston to London Heathrow
7 February 2005
BA 184 Newark to London Heathrow
BA 185 London Heathrow to Newark
8 February 2005
BA 186 Newark to London Heathrow
BA 67 London Heathrow to Philadelphia
BA 093 London Heathrow to Toronto
9 February 2005
BA 66 Philadelphia to London Heathrow
BA 092 Toronto to London Heathrow
British Airways has put procedures in place to help customers whose travel plans have been disrupted by these flight cancellations.
If your flight is cancelled, the following options are available to you:
Re-book on a British Airways flight to your original destination for a new travel date up to two weeks prior to or after your original flight, subject to availability.
Re-book on a British Airways flight to an alternative destination, with any additional costs to be paid by you.
For each of the above options, re-booking must take place within two weeks or the flight cancellation and travel must be completed within your ticket validity or within the three months if the validity of your ticket has expired.
You may have a refund to the original form of payment of any unused part of your ticket.
If you would like to discuss or apply any of the options above, including re-booking your flights, please contact your local British Airways office or travel agent, whichever issued your original travel documents.
Telephone numbers for British Airways offices around the world can be found if you click here.
Speedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 847 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3841 times:
It seems to have been an unfortunate situation where PA110 was given incorrect information by someone who obviously doesn't know the company policy. As he said, he happily got the situation sorted and I hope he never has to go through this again.
My apologies for accusing you of trying to bash BA and making false statements. Thanks for providing a clearer picture of what happened. Unlike many on here, I'm willing to admit when an error has been made.
The cancellations were done so that we can sort stuff out. It's best to take these decisions before hand for operational reasons, than to have passengers turn up at the airport and then tell them they can't go as expected. As you will note, the airline has provided various options for our passengers.
BlackandWhite From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 110 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3696 times:
Speedbird 2155 i used to work for BA till they shafted GLA, one of the jobs in the section i was in was phoning Exec pax and advising them of disruptions and flight changes, the major source of annoyance was that we couldnt use our initiative to rebook/reroute pax we had to stick to the commercial policy, although we knew from experience that if the pax turned up at the airport they would be offered invol rerouting to another carrier.
Re Flightime posting the canx SFO flt was this canx in advance or on the day of travel when the pax were at Ter4.