Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2636 times:
Today Brazilian LCC GOL (GOL Intelligent Airlines), the first LCC in LatAm, announced it has increased its options of B737-800 Next Generation from 43 to 63 airplanes, to be delivered from 2006 to 2010.
The airplanes will be financed by Eximbank. This order comes in the wake of VASP demise, the end of the codeshare between VARIG and TAM, and the incresing demand in the Brazilian air traffic. GOL also plans to expand its network in the South American region and last year started operations to EZE.
Currently GOL has the biggest fleet of 737NG in LatAm (I think second is Copa); GOL is also the most profitable airline of the region and one of the most profitable airlines in the world. At the moment GOL has a fleet of 29 737NGs, serving 39 destinations.
Glennpower From Brazil, joined Jul 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2053 times:
How do you assume that TAM are losing pasengers to GOL,when they are market leaders in Brasil,TAM is not losing passengers to GOL,but in fact they and GOL are both gaining at the expense of Varig and VASP.
VRG772 From Brazil, joined Oct 2003, 124 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2010 times:
GOL is not only gaining passengers from TAM and (of course!) Varig, but is getting people that didn't use to fly. GOL's prices are not that cheap for brazilians, that's why most of them travel huge distances in Brazil by bus; but since GOL entered brazilian market, the amount of people that flies, increased.
It's common to think that until last week, when Vasp stopped flying, GOL was still gaining passengers from VASP. No, GOL got Vasp's passengers when started to fly, a few years ago.
I really think that SOME passengers of Varig and TAM, are migrating to GOL, but it depends on many things. In some routes, Varig and TAM's prices are truly high, and GOL's aren't. But in other routes, this difference is not so big, so there's no reason to leave Varig/TAM and go to GOL. Also, Varig and TAM does have a program to earn miles, which GOL doesn't have; this changes a lot, specially for business workers, who use to fly a lot.
GOL is very young and is going on the right way. Is almost impossible to talk about "airlines in Brazil". Majors airlines in Brazil are completely different one from the other. One is too youg and moder, the other is old (a "bit" broken) but has a very known name and certain status, the other has the philosophy of treating the passenger as a king (well, they try to; or at least, they say it). 3 different airlines, 3 different ways of working, fighting for the same market, in a poor country where MOST of people cannot even buy the ticket (business workers are just a few, for the size of the country/tourism is very important, but does not make an airline survive in BRazil). Who will get the passengers? The one with the cheapest tickets. No matter what you do in Brazil. Put the cheapest tickets, and your planes will be full.
BTW, I think it's going a "bit" off the topic (I assume my post is really going off, but that's ok... sorry)
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 12, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2010 times:
The airline that has gained more pax in Brazil is by far GOL; established less than four years ago GOL has more than 20% of the Brazilian domestic market.
TAM is in the market for quite some time now (20 years?), and in my opinion is very slow in making decisions. Its international expansion is focused on CDG and MIA, and a few destinations in South America. It really does not offer a real challenge to RG's international network. If TAM had been more aggresive in the international market, I think RG would have gone down a long time ago...
In general, TAM and GOL are growing at the expense of RG, VP and TR. If GOL and TAM keep growing in this pace, very soon RG will see its domestic market share shrink undermining its very international network.
Also, any expansion outside of Brasil?
G3's CEO stated that priority for 2005/06 is South America, especially EZE (more flights), VVI, MVD, SCL. MIA is also in the plans.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1998 times:
I remember reading that Gol would start flying to VVI and ASU
I forgot to add in my list above ASU. Flights to VVI will start before July/05. MVD, ASU and SCL are supposed to be in the network by the end of the year.
are we setting up for an eventual Latin American showdown between LAN and GOL?
No. Expect a showdown LAN x TAM, and working in a different market segment GOL. LAN and TAM in the full service segment, and GOL in the low-cost segment.
I really think that SOME passengers of Varig and TAM, are migrating to GOL
A diverse range of pax are migrating to GOL. GOL does not only has first-time and/or low-budget traveller; 70% of GOL's pax travel on business. GOL has a corporate portfolio to envy any mainstream carrier, including big corporations based in Sao Paulo such as Siemens, Shell and Phillips. GOL also has good inroads with small-companies.
Another important fact: GOL has taking the lead on online bookings in Brazil. GOL is the only airline in Brazil in which you can change your ticket online. 80% of GOL's tickets are bought online.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 15, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1958 times:
LAN Express, in my opinion, has nothing to do with low-cost carrier; it is simply LAN's regional subsidiary (short flights).
There are only two LCCs in LatAm: GOL and Uruguay-based Uair (established by TAM).
Surprisingly enough, LAN is smaller than TAM in terms of fleet, pax carried, destinations served, and FF travellers. TAM also has a subsidiary in ASU, TAM Mercusur, which offers a reasonable network in the Souther Cone. However, LAN has a bigger international network than TAM.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1908 times:
RG's market share grew very little last year, but it is stable
Could you prove this statement?
RG market share has been decreasing every single year, including 2003-2004. RG once had about 70% domestic market in Brazil. 2004 was the first year TAM surpassed RG on the domestic market.
LAN's market is a fraction of JJ's. There is not much you can compare these two carriers
Completely agree. You cannot compare TAM and LAN. TAM is much bigger.
As I mentioned, LAN has a bigger international network, but this natural since there isnt that much domestic market in Chile. In any other indicator you use, you will realise that TAM is bigger than LAN: number of pax carried, destinations served, fleet size, number FF members, total staff, etc...
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8492 posts, RR: 43 Reply 19, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1886 times:
This has been discussed before, Varig market share grew 3.6% in 2004:
Enquanto a Varig apresentou crescimento tímido (3,6%) e a Vasp encolheu 18,8%, Gol e TAM registraram forte desempenho. A Gol foi a que mais cresceu, 28,3%. O desempenho foi quase 2,5 vezes superior à média do setor. Criada há três anos, a companhia também atingiu 71% de ocupação média em seus vôos. Em dezembro, 76% dos assentos de seus aviões foram ocupados, fato raro no país.
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1879 times:
Thanks for the numbers. However, over the last few years, it is very clear that RG saw a drastic reduction in its market-share, which once was at about 70%. RG market share reduced from 70%, at its peak some years ago, to 30% in 2004. I expect it to decrease even further in 2005 - and December/04 numbers give us a clear indication in this respect.
Tks for confirming that GOL is the biggest operator of 737NG in LatAm. BTW, of GOL's 63 options, 43 are firm orders As I thought, CM comes in second.
PANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3987 posts, RR: 93 Reply 21, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1847 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Good to see GOL doing well and increasing their fleet. Thanks for the post.
of GOL's 63 options, 43 are firm orders
I believe 21 are currently firm orders and the balance of 42 are Purchase Rights, (options). In May 2004 GOL originally ordered 15 738 & 28 options, since then they ordered 3 more in 07/04 & 4 more in 01/05. Note the two add on orders, we should continue to see these kind if incremental orders from GOL as they convert their options. That said, a larger follow on order seems more likely given their commitments as of today. Please note, I am only talking about direct orders from Boeing and not from Leasing companies or the 73NG series they already operate and correct me if I've missed something.
When the 2004 order was announced deliveries of the 738s were to be from 2007 to 2009. Is this still the case or have they brought forward some of these deliveries to meet demand?
PANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3987 posts, RR: 93 Reply 23, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1695 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Thanks for the response and the update on delivery schedule. Just to add to my previous post. Now that Boeing have forecast a 20% rise in 2006 deliveries GOL may well have to make a larger follow on order to secure their delivery slots. Thanks again for the post, good to watch the progress of a LCC in LATAM from afar!
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 52 Reply 24, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1613 times:
GOL may well have to make a larger follow on order to secure their delivery slots.
Also agree with you; but I'm sure Boeing also wants to secure such an important (and strategic) client in the LatAm market such as GOL.
G3 is very strategic since Boeing cannot rely on ailing airline Varig; and TAM is now Airbus territory.
Brazil could well represent yet another battle field Boeing x Airbus: RG+G3 x JJ.
Boeing will open its first office in LatAm in 2005, in Sao Paulo city. There were even speculations that Boeing was interested in the possibility of opening a manufacturing plant in Brazil, around Embraer's production area.