Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Exploring A Non Code-Share Idea For ChicagoExpress  
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

I was reading some of the posts in the other Chicago Express themed forum and was thinking of some possible ideas, mainly centered around the basic idea of the name "Chicago Express". I am not quite sure what the operating expenses of the Saab 340 are, so the basis of my ideas maintain that they are not terribly expensive (cheaper than RJ's) to maintain and operate.

Imagine an independant midwest based airline that uses Saab 340's with a Hub at MDW in chicago. 30 airplanes is a good number we'll say. Each airplane would have 32 seats, and the airline would serve cities within 500 miles of Chicago. This would be a scaled back Southwest Airlines style of operation. Fares at $30/ one way, it would be cheaper than driving in most cases, especially with the new IDOT IPass fees (1.50 per toll for folks without an iPass).

So if you fill 24 seats out of 32 per flight (75% load average), you get
$720/ flight. If you run each airplane on 10 flights per day, thats $7200/ airplane. Say you have 25 airplanes in service on weekdays, thats $180,000 in operating income each week-day. The numbers i have suggested aren't unreasonable for the fares being offered.

Fly to the following 12 cities from MDW to start off:

Minneapolis, Madison, Milwaukee, Dubuque, Cedar Rapids, Moline/Quad Cities, Peoria, Bloomington/Normal, Champaign, Springfield, St. Louis, Indianapolis

All cities with divested economic/social ties to Chicago and vice versa. The closest city (DBQ) is still 158 miles away and a 3 hour drive. My car (1997 Olds Cutlass) takes about a half a tank of gas to get there (same amount for the way back) so that is already around $25 for me, not to mention the money deducted from my iPass account (only 75 cents per toll since I have an iPass). But still that adds up to about $6 round trip. So thats a little less than $35 at least in the drive per round trip, not to mention any food stops or whatever you might have because of the length of the drive.

With service to MDW, you can be down in the loop within 45 mins of landing, or take the Metra out to the suburbs and be there within 2 hours. Using DBQ as the example city, you do pay a little more for the flight. However you can make Chicago a day trip. Leave at 9am from dbq and getting back on the last flight around 10pm. Have a full day of shopping or relatively seeing or whatever you want to do. Sure beats Eagles $250 and up price for a one way from DBQ-ORD right now. With driving, you spend around 7 hours on the road depending on the time of day. This cuts the travel time in half (around 3.5 hours including airport experience and flight time). On a saturday and sunday you could offer $20 one way flights to stimulate traffic.

Think of all the colleges in these towns that have kids from Chicago...
MSP- University of Minnesota, all the St. whatever colleges,
MSN- UW Madison, Edgewood
MKE- Marquette, UW Milwaukee, Carthage
DBQ- University of Dubuque, Loras, Clarke, UW Platteville
CID- University of Iowa (known as University of Chicago - Iowa CIty)
MLI- Augustana, St. Ambrose
PIA- Bradley
BMI- Illinois State University, Illinois Wesleyan
CPI- University of Illinois
STL- St. Louis University, Washington University
IND- Butler, IUPUI, Depaux, Indiana State


the college traffic alone would be incredible. Perhaps in Football and basketball season the airline could run special "game planes" on saturdays that run early in the morning for fans from the big 10 schools like Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern to where their team was playing that day and be able to bring them back the same night. A few other neat marketing ideas involving schools and stuff could probably be worked out.

any thoughts? Comments? Questions? Grievances?


Do you like movies about gladiators?
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4416 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1978 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Interesting...,It would be awfully hard to make money at those fares. MSP service I don't think would go over good, as ATA goes 8 flights a day to MDW-MSP with 738's, and they also have the connecting traffic. NW also has 8 daily flights with all mainline aircraft. Maybe for the price it would encourge people to fly the saab, but I'm sure NW would match or beat the fares. ORD also has tons of flights to MSP with UA having hourly service to MSP and both AA and NW having several daily flights. Also into STL WN already has numerous MDW-STL flights so it's already cheap.


the college traffic alone would be incredible.


On Saturday's yes, but I'm not so sure on other days.


On a saturday and sunday you could offer $20 one way flights to stimulate traffic.

Bankruptcy would be on the horizon....






User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1968 times:

How are you going to convince people to arrive at the airport two hours early plus transit time plus parking fees plus taxes on the fare when they could drive four hours instead? Sorry, I don't think it would work.

AAndrew


User currently offlineACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 710 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

This sounds an awful lot like a particular airline that I am quite fond of...


Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

don't forget that the Saab is about $2000 per hour to operate.

-n


User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

Didn't know MKE or some of the other mentioned cities was more than 158 miles from MDW?????? Got some other great ideas... how bout FNT, GRR, GRB, OSH, RST, GFK, SPI, MKC, SGF, BMG as expansion possibilities. But, I would drop STL, IND, MSP, and MKE because of the competition from NW and AA.

Here are some distances from MDW and direction from city to MDW in (_):
MKE: 70.0 NM (S)
BMI: 94.5 NM (NE)
MSN: 107.3 NM (SE)
PIA: 110.5 NM (NE)
MLI: 125.2 NM (E)
DBQ: 136.7 NM (ESE)
IND: 140.7 NM (NNW)
CID: 177.0 NM (E)
STL: 217.9 NM (NNE)
MSP: 302.2 NM (SE)



[Edited 2005-02-04 02:50:22]


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1896 times:

*shakes head and covers eyes* ughhh.

yeah thanks for pointing out that sometimes i need to not assume things. especialy distances between cities. anywho, i think an airline like this could in fact work, but, not exactly in the way that i have in mind.

Perhaps my ideas about the college possibilities need some more thought. How could you exploit all of that with the 30 airplane saab fleet and all those airports. Any feasability in only running flights thursday through tuesday?

Perhaps the "week" would be friday through monday, and the "weekend" could be tuesday and wednesday and thursday? Thereby exploiting the real weekend times when college kids and parents and girlfriends want to go home or something? im not quite sure. when i was writing up the whole thing earlier i kinda got caught in my own little "how things could be" world and didn't exactly think logicaly through some things. have any other ideas on his this airline could work?



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1892 times:

College students are not an airline market at all. When I was with Great Lakes, we flew to 2 college towns from our city (last stop going to O'Hare)... Bloomington Indiana and Carbondale, Illinois.

both cities are home to very large universities, yet I don't recall ever getting any students on board. And the only times we had more than 10 people on those flights were when there was something going on at the schools.

-n


User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

I understand what you mean Planespotting, I bet it is difficult to run an airline and not everything can be planned for. I'd love to see it start out with some of the cities you mentioned and move up from there and maybe get more planes once it becomes feasible. Ofcourse you would start with a limited # of cities and advertise like hell... (Unlike Independence seems to have done in such places as CMH). This could really become something feasible if you market it the right way...


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1871 times:

They aren't an airline market when they have to pay high fares. In the 80's, college students flourished on airlines like PEOPLExpress because the fares were so cheap. Granite, those were on a lot of the cross country fares, but they still made up a healthy percentage of PE's passenger load. Think about kids in any region (midwest, northeast, wherever) who stay in school in their region but are a little too far away from their friends or their family or girlfriend or wherever. With a $60 round trip fare, it would make it fairly easy to get around to see friends.

I don't personally think that that market could actually be exploited as the sole revenue producer of any airline obviously. but i think it's an untapped resource and it is a fairly easy group to market towards. Think of the mothers who would easily pay $60 for their kid to fly home on saturday and fly back on sunday, or to fly up and see juniors dorm room and take their friends out to dinner or something like that. If thye lived more than 3 hours apart on the ground it makes it a lot more convenient to fly then to drive.

I'm just trying to get people and myself to think of new ideas for airlines. Obviously the old way of running an airline has been tapped out. Southwest airlines started a whole new thing in the early 70's. Who is to say that there isn't some new idea out there right now by someone that could be the next wave of "different" airlines. LCC is the flame thats burning the brightest right now, but in 1965 was there anyone out there who thought that charging cheap fares and running a high frequency intrastate airline would work like it did? There has to be a whole other different way to start and run an airline. Isn't there....?



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1871 times:

I love the ideas... thats why I mentioned some of the other options for cities even as far away as Kansas City Downtown. What about something even like Marquette, MI? But, the fares have to be right for the customer to come. I'd even say with a $2000/hour rate to run the SAAB 340, a fare of $100/round-trip wouldn't be out of the question. You'd obviously need to follow the WN format somewhat in the whole "multi-stop" direct flights. Say MKC-MSN with a stop in DSM or RFD for example. Or EVV-RST via MDW and MSN.


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1864 times:

Yeah. To get full utilization out of the aircraft though and not saturate each market i think you would have to start out with say 20 cities if you have 30 airplanes. If theres 25 in service at all time, plane can get 10 cycles a day (total of 250 cycles) then each city would average 12 and a half flights per day. Obviously MDW would have like 40. I think scrubbing MSP, STL, IND and MKE is probably a good idea. Picking up smaller towns like SUX, GRR, GRB, etc..etc.. is an even better idea. Say a flight could start out in the morning at SUX and connect through MLI and end up at MDW about 2.5 hours after leaving SUX. And in places like MLI or BMI make it just a non stop. Sooo like connect the outlying cities through the inlying cities and then into chicago. Then start to creep out and do the city pair thing...DSM-RST, MSN-BMI, etc..etc..

Sort of like southwest, but with 32 seat saabs and midwest winters instead of texas heat...haha



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1848 times:

Sort of like southwest, but with 32 seat saabs and midwest winters instead of texas heat...haha

Don't forget that there is no Wright/Shelby Amendment holding it back either.  Big grin The reason I came up with those cities is cuz not everybody comes from big cities.... And it could make it easier for somebody like me (living 40 minutes from any airport large enough to sustain an airline service) to take one of the flights.



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Interline Ticketing On Non-code-share Flights? posted Mon Sep 4 2006 07:42:42 by Lrgt
New European Code Share Routes For China Southern posted Sun Jun 25 2006 15:27:56 by 777way
Qantas Airways Has Back-up Plan For Code-share posted Tue Jun 20 2006 01:32:44 by Zkojh
Dragonair Offers Cathay For China Code-share posted Tue Jan 14 2003 04:50:43 by Bigo747
US In Talks For Code-share Alliance posted Fri May 17 2002 19:11:28 by Jiml1126
QF & NZ Abandon Tasman Code-share posted Wed Nov 15 2006 07:36:16 by Australia1
JAT Airwys To Code-share EK HAM-JFK... posted Tue Oct 24 2006 15:29:15 by Beaucaire
My Idea For Delta's Success At JFK posted Mon Oct 2 2006 02:45:59 by Kaitak744
Where To Check In When Flying Code Share posted Sat Sep 30 2006 01:48:18 by Nycfuturepilot
Finnair Seeks Code-share With Indian Carrier posted Sun Sep 10 2006 21:37:47 by Carnoc