RootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4085 posts, RR: 41 Posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3819 times:
Hi
The is something that draws my attention. Its the fact that so far no major european airline is wishing to purchase the 787. However there are less are less known airlines such as Primaris, Blue Panorama, Vietnam or First airlines and many chinise airlines that have purchased it. Will european carriers be interested or will they encourage european industry by purchasing the A350 ? I don't want to start an A vs B discussion but I do find it weird 787 is going to rather "small airlines" with only a very few exceptions
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
Aerlingus330 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 834 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3785 times:
I think Aer Lingus a while back where looking at them, to update their transatlantic fleets consisting of A330-300s and A330-200s.
But if they where going to update their transatlantic fleet i think it would be with the A350, because most of their fleet is Airbus, apart from the few Boeing 737s.
Aerlingus330 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 834 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3652 times:
If I was an airline I would stick with the A330, instead of heading for a Boeing 787 or an Airbus A350, because "There have been no fatal events, involving passengers, on an Airbus A330 to date."
BoeingBus From United States, joined May 2004, 1553 posts, RR: 11 Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3649 times:
Well, has there been a major Airbus or Boeing order for midsize jets last year from EU carriers?
The only one I can think of is Virgins for the A346 order, which doesnt compete with the 787...
So I don't think that the Europeans not purchasing the 787 is the issue BUT there just hasn't been much purchasing in 2004 for mid to large airplanes...
Spike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3622 times:
If it is that more cost effecient the European LCCs will snap them up first. The Majors will have their A380 fleets and the minors their 787s. BA would have both of corse. Now that would be A vs. B.
BoeingBus From United States, joined May 2004, 1553 posts, RR: 11 Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3602 times:
Aerlingus330
well, Airliners shouldn't get the A380 either... nope. heck, lets stop bulding new aircraft... stop R&D and lets not make the experience of flying any better because the old A330 hasn't had any crashes...
DfwRevolution From United States, joined Mar 2004, 7684 posts, RR: 55 Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3602 times:
A European order is expected very soon. This same source also indicated a Mid-East/African airline to buy soon, and lo and behold, Ethopian ordered last week. I think it deserves a bit of creditibility...
If I was an airline I would stick with the A330, instead of heading for a Boeing 787 or an Airbus A350, because "There have been no fatal events, involving passengers, on an Airbus A330 to date."
Sk945 From Sweden, joined May 2002, 430 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3471 times:
European orders will come, perhaps not this year, but they will come.
I really don't know any European airline that are in the process right now to start to order replacements for there fleet. Of curse there are some. LOT, BA etc. wish both operates the B767. I know that SAS are very intressted in the B787, but such an order is very far from now.
Phxinterrupted From United States, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3440 times:
I could see BA placing a 787 order by the end of the year. But they don't like to be called European. lol
GLAGAZ From United Kingdom (Scotland), joined Feb 2004, 1860 posts, RR: 10 Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3414 times:
So are Blue Panorama and First Choice the only current Euopean customers for the 787?
Someone above mentioned the charter airlines, this seems a good bet. Airlines such as Monarch, TUI etc would possibly be interested along with FlyGlobespan's interest in the 787.
I think LOT will be the first 'big' airline to order in Europe and KLM/AF the first major
American components....Russian components....ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!
SNATH From United States, joined Mar 2004, 2549 posts, RR: 19 Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3404 times:
GLAGAZ,
I think AY also made some noises, not that long ago, about looking at the 787. I think it was pre A350 announcement though. I'm sure they are now evaluating both of them as MD-11 replacements.
Tony
"4 engines for too long!", Randy Baseler on Airbus
KC135TopBoom From United States, joined Jan 2005, 5566 posts, RR: 36 Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
I think Spike suggested that BA will buy both the B-787 and the A-380. Why? It seems to me if you buy one, you don't really need the other.
They are both very long range aircraft, just different sizes in pax loads. Probably a very significant operating cost difference (ie. fuel consumption and speed)
Buying the B-787 means not much infrastructure changes for airlines or airports. This is an important cost consideration for both. Buying the A-380 means some significant infrastructure costs for both airlines and airports. But the biggest costs may be the cost of modifying or building new hangers for maintenance and the costs of maintaining the new composites.
But each airline is going to make the best business decision for themselves. So I don't see a need for the A-380 for BA, sorry Spike. It doesn't seem to fit into the way they want to run their airline. I would guess (and that is all any of us are doing, guessing and wishful thinking) BA would be the first European airline ( we in the US think of BA as, not only British, but European, too) to order the B-787. The B-787 will complement BAs other long range aircraft, the B-747-400s and the B-777-200s. Both of those airplanes, for BA, are configured for a lot fewer seats than there "regular" seating capacity. So where will the A-380 fit? It seems BA wants more room and comfort for their pax and not the "cattle car" image the A-380 seems to portray.
Please don't get me wrong, I am not running down on the A-380. I, personally have no desire to ever fly one. But, that isn't saying I refuse to fly one. If it is the only airplane going to where I need to be at the time I need to be there, than I'm aboard it.
It seems that aircraft like the A-380, B-787, B-777, and B-747 would work well together and complement each other in a military troop transport role where very long distances (7,000 NM +) are involved.
Planemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 3475 posts, RR: 18 Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3256 times:
To a lesser degree the airline industry in Europe is suffering similar conditions as their N. American counterparts... eg. increasing LCC market share, poor "domestic" yields, high fuel prices, etc.
Until the industry settles there is a lot of risk to commit to any major fleet re-newal or expansion except where absolutely neccessary.
I think that there will be more airline rationalization and perhaps consolidation over the next few years that would further impact fleet planning.
For example, there is a possibility that BA and IB might go the route of AF/KLM, while Alitalia and/and or Swiss and/or Olympic might either disolve (or be "rescued" by another carrier).
And in 3-4 years we might even see airline ownership restrictions gradually lifted in the US that might initiate some trans-Atlantic cross-ownership along alliance lines that could further impact fleet planning.
BTW, the Star Alliance carriers stated that they are setting joint specifications for the 7E7 (there were a couple of threads on this topic). The specs won't be worked out until mid-year so any potential order from LH would come no earlier.
MauriceB From Aruba, joined Aug 2004, 2141 posts, RR: 23 Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3220 times:
Airlines like KLM, AF, LH, BA etc, will first wait untill some more specifications from the A350, All 4 airlines can go both way's, LH Has a huge airbus and boeing fleet, AF does , BA does, And KLM is to receive the A330...
''A.net just like flying, but without the peanuts. doesn't bother me , i never eat peanuts on flights!
SNATH From United States, joined Mar 2004, 2549 posts, RR: 19 Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3213 times:
It seems to me if you buy one, you don't really need the other.
Actually, you're really wrong. The B787 (and also the A350) and the A380 are not competitors. They will co-exist. If you have a very busy route, you will use the A380. If you have a long thin-ish route, you will use the B787/A350. I can't understand why you say that if you have the one, you don't need the other. It doesn't make sense.
As proof of that, notice that at least three airlines that have ordered the A380 (SQ, QR, and EK) have been looking at the B787 and A350.
Tony
[Edited 2005-02-06 20:34:15]
"4 engines for too long!", Randy Baseler on Airbus
Johnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2184 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3112 times:
just a personal guess, but i think LH will eventually opt for the 787. iĀ“m well aware that LH has got this big A330/A340 fleet and an order for the A350 would seem a bit more logical at first.
however, LH has been looking for years for an A300 replacement. any potentail A330 derivatives have been discarded as a replacement due to their massive wingspan. the 787-300 comes quite close and seems to be a good fit for their european network, whereas the A350, despite getting an all-new wing-design, still seems to be getting a huge wingspan.
in addition, the 787-900 could one day be replacing the A340-300s...
rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
N1120A From France, joined Dec 2003, 22904 posts, RR: 79 Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3075 times:
>If I was an airline I would stick with the A330, instead of heading for a Boeing 787 or an Airbus A350, because "There have been no fatal events, involving passengers, on an Airbus A330 to date."<
By that logic, the 767 should be what we are all flying on.
>however, LH has been looking for years for an A300 replacement. any potentail A330 derivatives have been discarded as a replacement due to their massive wingspan. the 787-300 comes quite close and seems to be a good fit for their european network, whereas the A350, despite getting an all-new wing-design, still seems to be getting a huge wingspan.<
The 783 or 788 would work fine as an A300 replacement. The cargo capacity and size are perfect and if they used 788s they could rotate them from Long to Short hauls, keeping the fleet utilized
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ConcordeBoy From United States, joined Feb 2001, 18542 posts, RR: 79 Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3009 times:
"There have been no fatal events, involving passengers, on an Airbus A330 to date."
because the old A330 hasn't had any crashes
..."involving passengers" being the key.
In case you two weren't aware, the A330 has indeed crashed, burned, and killed. Just with crew only, and not any pax aboard.
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