Patches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 297 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5072 times:
Please excuse me if this has been covered before, But why did'nt NWA convert the DC-10 to the new updated MD10 program? they could have saved a ton of cash by doing this because they would'nt have needed that 3rd person in the cockpit also could they have added wingtips to the aircraft to save fuel to make the plane even more feasable for NW to use even longer?
NIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5018 times:
This post may get deleted because there is another post covering this same topic in the forum.
As for NW and MD11s. I am not sure, could be money, could be a lot of things. I think there is more to it than winglets and an updated cockpit. I don't follow NW at all but hey fly one of those 10s! They are a piece of nostalgia!
Ahlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1347 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 4991 times:
NIKV69: You totally missed the question. There is a program in place that at least Fedex has taken advantage of that converts existing DC-10s into MD-10s, basically upgrading the avionics and making the cockpit two-person. The author wants to know why NW isn't doing the same to their DC-10s.
Nudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 4972 times:
Judging from pictures here, I think they did at least upgrade the flightdecks partially, like installing new engine displays and so on. Not sure what else was done, looks to me, like the 742 modernizations Air Atlanta operates...
Patches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 4968 times:
thankyou Ahlfors,Maybe NW thought the cost was not worth it, By the way does anybody know how much it does cost to retrofit a DC-10 to MD-10? I just thought it could have bought NW more time for there DC-10's
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 3104 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4797 times:
NW's DC-10-30s are a mixed fleet. Some have less than 40,000 hours on them, while others (soon to be retired) have 125,000. The MD-10 mods would be mostly cockpit mods, saving you the FE pay, as well as lightening the airframe by deleting equipment and the FE by 1000 pounds, thereby increasing payload. Winglets are NOT part of the MD-10 modification.
The main reason for not upgrading would be that the DC-10 will not be in service long enough to realize any savings from the mods. The older airframes will be retired at their next heavy checks, and the younger ones will be phased out en masse once their fleet type reaches a small enough level. The younger ones would have a lot of airframe life left in them, however there isn't too much of a market for used older aircraft these days, so the costs would probably not be recovered in resale.
TokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4563 times:
I think NW did some modifications on their cockpit instruments on some of the classics that they owned..particularly around the engine instruments..I have seen similar engine instruments upgrade on their B747-200s also. Remember some of the DC10s were purchased from Thai, JAS and etc in the late 90s..those birds had slightly different cockpit instrument layouts from those existing NW fleet.
Nwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4450 times:
I wish the DC-10's would keep flying -- I did enjoy them transatlantic, sure the seats don't lie down, but in many ways, they're more comfortable than the A330 lie down seats (yes I do fly first class on long flights). The DC-10 always seemed bigger, more solid. Of course, the DC-9's feel the same way. Guess I'm just an old Douglas plane person, hope some of them keep flying as long as I do (I'm just a bit older than the Dc-9-10)
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7445 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4367 times:
I think NW did some modifications on their cockpit instruments on some of the classics that they owned..particularly around the engine instruments..I have seen similar engine instruments upgrade on their B747-200s also.
The only upgrades that were made, was the digital EPR guages that were put in in 1996.
Remember some of the DC10s were purchased from Thai, JAS and etc in the late 90s..those birds had slightly different cockpit instrument layouts from those existing NW fleet.
Not really. The DC10 cockpits were almost identical to the 7 aircraft that were delivered between 96-00.The only thing that was added was the EPR, fuel level gauges, and the ACARS computer. Beyond that not much else. NW was very selective about which DC10's they acquired. One of the biggest reasons they purchased so many from SR. These were the aircraft that resembled the DC10-40's almost exclusively.
AR1300 From Argentina, joined Feb 2005, 1750 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3446 times:
Why would you update such an old airframe that you will have to replace soon-and that's what the A330 are for-anyways?
Besides winglets etc. are expensive, the 8-foot tall winglet of the 737/8 cost 2 million dollars, according to boeing in their website.I don't how much this one costs, but surely isn't pocket change.
BCal10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3367 times:
Not sure when NW first ordered their A330s (no doubt someone will tell me!) but I do know it was deferred a few times due to their financial position. I think getting DC-10s always was a stop gap measure so not much point in up grading them.
PS In connection with username any chance of British Caledonian starting up again with ex NW DC10s!!! Sorry just reminiscing!!