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Why no NW MD-10's updates?  
User currently offlinePatches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 292 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

Please excuse me if this has been covered before, But why did'nt NWA convert the DC-10 to the new updated MD10 program? they could have saved a ton of cash by doing this because they would'nt have needed that 3rd person in the cockpit also could they have added wingtips to the aircraft to save fuel to make the plane even more feasable for NW to use even longer?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

Hey Patches,

This post may get deleted because there is another post covering this same topic in the forum.

As for NW and MD11s. I am not sure, could be money, could be a lot of things. I think there is more to it than winglets and an updated cockpit. I don't follow NW at all but hey fly one of those 10s! They are a piece of nostalgia!


User currently offlinePatches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4796 times:

you know it NIKV69! I have been on a DC-10 many times and it is the best time I have had on a airliner!

User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1347 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

NIKV69: You totally missed the question. There is a program in place that at least Fedex has taken advantage of that converts existing DC-10s into MD-10s, basically upgrading the avionics and making the cockpit two-person. The author wants to know why NW isn't doing the same to their DC-10s.

User currently offlineAn-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3950 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4782 times:

Northwest is not converting them to MD-10s because they're being replaced with A-330s. Converting them now would just be money wasted. End of story.

Alex.



Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4775 times:

Judging from pictures here, I think they did at least upgrade the flightdecks partially, like installing new engine displays and so on. Not sure what else was done, looks to me, like the 742 modernizations Air Atlanta operates...

Compare NW:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Sharps



to others:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dale Coleman




Putana da Seatbeltz!
User currently offlinePatches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4771 times:

thankyou Ahlfors,Maybe NW thought the cost was not worth it, By the way does anybody know how much it does cost to retrofit a DC-10 to MD-10? I just thought it could have bought NW more time for there DC-10's

User currently offlinePatches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4756 times:

AN225 I don't think NW new back in 1999 when they were going to get the A-330 yet. maybe they did, I don't know But back in 1999. I thought I would have been a good idea.

User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4753 times:

Ahlfors,

Thanks, I found that funny, I don't follow cargo carriers so I wouldn't know that. Makes sense. An-225 for a pax carrier that would be a total waste of capital but FedEx benefits from it.


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2930 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4600 times:

NW's DC-10-30s are a mixed fleet. Some have less than 40,000 hours on them, while others (soon to be retired) have 125,000. The MD-10 mods would be mostly cockpit mods, saving you the FE pay, as well as lightening the airframe by deleting equipment and the FE by 1000 pounds, thereby increasing payload. Winglets are NOT part of the MD-10 modification.

The main reason for not upgrading would be that the DC-10 will not be in service long enough to realize any savings from the mods. The older airframes will be retired at their next heavy checks, and the younger ones will be phased out en masse once their fleet type reaches a small enough level. The younger ones would have a lot of airframe life left in them, however there isn't too much of a market for used older aircraft these days, so the costs would probably not be recovered in resale.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4366 times:

I think NW did some modifications on their cockpit instruments on some of the classics that they owned..particularly around the engine instruments..I have seen similar engine instruments upgrade on their B747-200s also. Remember some of the DC10s were purchased from Thai, JAS and etc in the late 90s..those birds had slightly different cockpit instrument layouts from those existing NW fleet.

TokyoNarita.


User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4264 times:
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To expand on the original interesting question - did anyone beside FedEx take this option?


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineNwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

I wish the DC-10's would keep flying -- I did enjoy them transatlantic, sure the seats don't lie down, but in many ways, they're more comfortable than the A330 lie down seats (yes I do fly first class on long flights). The DC-10 always seemed bigger, more solid. Of course, the DC-9's feel the same way. Guess I'm just an old Douglas plane person, hope some of them keep flying as long as I do (I'm just a bit older than the Dc-9-10)
'


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

One of the biggest reasons for the MD-10 program was for carriers like FX, with massive fleets of both types (DC-10/MD-11) to get a common cockpit and pilot rating. NW did not have this concern.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4170 times:
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I think NW did some modifications on their cockpit instruments on some of the classics that they owned..particularly around the engine instruments..I have seen similar engine instruments upgrade on their B747-200s also.

The only upgrades that were made, was the digital EPR guages that were put in in 1996.

Remember some of the DC10s were purchased from Thai, JAS and etc in the late 90s..those birds had slightly different cockpit instrument layouts from those existing NW fleet.

Not really. The DC10 cockpits were almost identical to the 7 aircraft that were delivered between 96-00.The only thing that was added was the EPR, fuel level gauges, and the ACARS computer. Beyond that not much else. NW was very selective about which DC10's they acquired. One of the biggest reasons they purchased so many from SR. These were the aircraft that resembled the DC10-40's almost exclusively.




Made from jets!
User currently offlinePatches From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

Here's a question I asked earilier, What is the cost of updating a DC-10 cockpit?

User currently offlineAR1300 From Argentina, joined Feb 2005, 1740 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

Why would you update such an old airframe that you will have to replace soon-and that's what the A330 are for-anyways?
Besides winglets etc. are expensive, the 8-foot tall winglet of the 737/8 cost 2 million dollars, according to boeing in their website.I don't how much this one costs, but surely isn't pocket change.

Mike



They don't call us Continental for nothing.
User currently offlineBCal10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3170 times:


Not sure when NW first ordered their A330s (no doubt someone will tell me!) but I do know it was deferred a few times due to their financial position. I think getting DC-10s always was a stop gap measure so not much point in up grading them.

PS In connection with username any chance of British Caledonian starting up again with ex NW DC10s!!! Sorry just reminiscing!!


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3650 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

There may also be something in NW's pilot contracts that prevent the elimination of the FE position. That's just a guess though.


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