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Why No US-American Airline To VIE?  
User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6763 times:

Hi all,

I was asking this Question myself a couple of times.

VIE is one of the bigger European Airports that do not have one
of the US-majors like UA/US/AA/CO.

What about LAX/ORD or PHL ? I know a lot of People who have to travel via FRA/MUC/AMS or LHR as they are no able to get any seat on OS to JFK or
IAD, so demand is there.

Any explanation ?

Martin

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

There are lots of rumors floating around that UA might be starting ORD-VIE or IAD-VIE in the next year. Just rumors though. It would work great to tie Austrian's hub with United's since we're both Star Alliance and the traffic flow would be great!

FA4UA



The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
User currently offlineAlb222 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6693 times:

DL did fly JFK-VIE after the PanAm takeover, but dropped the route leaving it to codeshare with AF via CDG.

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6652 times:

I flew DL DFW-ATL-VIE back in 1999, but the loads on that flight were very slight.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6651 times:

This is a really interesting question. Zurich, with a similar size as VIE has 4 US airlines at the moment: AA (JFK and DFW), DL (ATL), CO (EWR) and UA (IAD), all daily. While Swiss flies to JFK, ORD, MIA, BOS, LAX and EWR (only business class with a leased BBJ)

User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6631 times:

@FA4UA

yep, i heard this rumor from various sources too although all told me another story, so I don´t know how reliable each of those are.

VIE Airport Authorities are in negotiations with 2 Airlines from the US - on is def. UA but there is no Information about the second one.


Cheers
Martin



User currently offlineGRZ-AIR From Austria, joined Apr 2001, 574 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6635 times:


Another fellow Austrian on board: Nice! Welcome..

Good question that I have also asked myself numerous times..

I would love to see US Carriers fly directly into AUT, Vienna!

Probably because of the Star Alliance OS and LH got that piece of the cake..

cheers from GRZ,

Patrick



When I joined A.net it was still free, haha ;).
User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6569 times:

Thanks Patrick,

it´s strange, isn´t it ? with nearly 15 Mio PAX last year, VIE has only two
daily VIE - US Services.

I miss the times we had PAN AM/DELTA and TWA.

Cheers
Martin


User currently offlineParisien From France, joined Dec 2000, 821 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6531 times:

yes, I remember I think it was 1995 ? Anyway, almost 10 years ago, getting on a Delta plane in Bucharest to Vienna where we changed plane to Austrian to JFK. The Austrian flight was codeshared with Delta. Don't know where the DL plane went (at that time I wasnt that interested in aviation), I think it was a B757 ? changing to A310 of OS. Heard people complained because DL was a non smoking airline, but OS at that time still had smoking in the back. We docked in DL terminal.

User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6520 times:

Sounds like the next CO special from EWR. So does every other smaller, thinner route in Europe and Mexico though. If ever Boing 787 advocates had a poster child in the US, it would be CO.

It's somewhat dissapointing to me to see how much DL has fallen at JFK. JFK VIE should be a strong route for them I would think.


User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6519 times:

I think CO would do it if they could do it with a 752, but the max range is 3719nm, while EWR-VIE is 3696nm. That cuts it a little close.


"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6479 times:

I think CO would have no Problem to fill a 762 EWR-VIE nowadays.

With the joining of all the new EU-members the catchment area for VIE
is now a lot bigger than before, seen partly with an 15,7% PAX Rise 2004
compared with 2003.

Cheers
Martin


User currently offlineGoCOgo From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

A CO 762 probably could be filled, and they do use them on amy similar European routes out of EWR, such as Geneva, Milan, and Zurich etc., but they only have 10 of them. I think they might have one or two 762s running domestic, so once the 753s from ATA come, it is within the realm of possiblity.


"Why you fly is your business, how you fly is ours"
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6338 times:
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I think it all depends on how much high-yield up front (Business) traffic there is, as well as cargo. The back most airlines can easily fill. The reason I believe ZRH has 4 US carriers is that they do pretty well with the front cabins even during the very weak winter months when loads are very light in the back; there is significant business traffic to/from ZRH due to the financial/pharmaceutical industries.

Near the end of its life, Pan Am used to have around 4 weekly flights JFK-VIE (2 nonstop and 2 via BUD) on the A310. DL took those over but dropped them later when they suffered huge losses. DL also had an ATL-VIE/BUD flight on its own but that was dropped shortly after the OS codeshares ended.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6272 times:

cargo will be not the main pillar for these flights. Austria is one of the worsest cargo markets in Europe. The rates from Austria to the US are the half of the rates from germany or france, similar to the Great Britan rates.

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6243 times:

@Avianca

I wouldn´t have expected this as 40% of Cargo from VIE is roadfeederd either to FRA or MUC.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

VORFMD, it seems a pervers play, but it is true, there are enough carrier who hasn´t flights from Austria but put these ratelevel on the Austria market to get marketshare and transfered the cargo to germany by truck. Best example is UA.

regards
Avianca




Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3092 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

Who knows, maybe DL will take a second look at VIE from JFK or maybe ATL. They seem to be re-examining old markets, with the new flights to TXL (from JFK) and SVO (from ATL), plus there are the persistant rumors about ARN coming back.

DL certainly wouldn't have much problem finding the available widebody a/c. Plus, DL is strong in the region (MUC, STR, ZRH), so VIE wouldn't be that far fetched.



User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5953 times:

Austrian already flies IAD to VIE. I don't think there's enough traffic/cargo for two Star Alliance carriers to fly the route. Don't get your hopes up about United flying to Vienna.

User currently offlineRoyal330 From Austria, joined Nov 2001, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5724 times:

@VORFMD
Sure, we have several 747 Cargo flights a week in VIE (Asiana Cargo and Korean Cargo), but both bring the goods to either Slovakia or Hungary (Car production). They just fly to VIE as there is no Cargo terminal in BTS, which could handle some regular 747 Cargo flights. Same with AN-12 of Antonov Design Bureau, many goods are destined for Slovenia, Slovakia or Hungary

I don't think they'll have problems to fill a 762 or even bigger. The main problem is that they'll make no profit. Guess why Austrian doesn't expand their network in N-America? The Yield is the problem. Same with Johannesburg, the planes were almost full but they made no profit.



“I don't have any solution, but I certainly admire the problem.”
User currently offlineVORFMD From Austria, joined Feb 2005, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5384 times:

@Royal330

a good amount of Cargo arriving with KE/OZ/BR in Vienna is for the austrian market. My Company alone has 3 - 4 Truckloads Computerparts weekly coming with those Flights for Vienna directly. But you´re right a lot of Cargo is going to Slovakia and Hungary.



User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

on all these cargo flights are allotments for some european destinations, you will never find on line-cargo flights that the complete freight is for the destination of the aircraft. The carriers have roadfeeder service between all online and offline stations that they serve. For example, you will also find freight for the german market on these flights to VIE, and you will also find freight for the austrian market on german flights. It depants all on the loadfactor of the flight, Service level....

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineBeowulf From Singapore, joined Jul 2003, 730 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

@VORFMD

Some time ago there was already a discussion on this issue.  Wink/being sarcastic Well, one of the reasons why no major US carrier flies into VIE is that there is not a big enough business customer market in VIE. With the el cheapo tourists you might get your plan full, but how your yield looks is another question. Thus you need a good mix of el cheapo fares and full fares (Y and/or C), in short: business travellers. And let's face there is not that much industry in Austria.

Nick


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4662 times:

about the comment of CO not having any B767s open:

I just read in our reading file at work that CO is chaning the FRA run to a 777 again starting march??? i think. That would free up a 764, which could maybe be used for a different 762 route so far, freeing up a 762 for a new route? Would be an interesting possibility. Just thought i'd throw that in there...



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26426 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

>I think CO would do it if they could do it with a 752, but the max range is 3719nm, while EWR-VIE is 3696nm. That cuts it a little close.<

The max range is 3900nm, but will be longer with the winglets now being certified. EWR-PRG has long been seen as inevitable when the winglets go on, so VIE would be in the same boat. As for the 762, it is not a matter of having to put more people in the airplane, as the 752 and 762 hold about the same number of pax at CO. The issue is filling the much larger J cabin and the cargo hold.





Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

The problem is that the US market from VIE is a low yield market.
Altough there are strong economical ties with a lot of US companies having their headquarter in Vienna for either Europe or "CEE-Central & Eastern Europe" there is not enough high yield business traffic. In addition with the Alliancies there is enough capacity via the various European Hubs.

Many companies have contracts with certain carriers so even when UA offers a nonstop service VIE-ORD I am sure that for example the GM people would be forced to use KL/NW into DTW rather than using UA.

The daily JFK and the IAD flight of OS with the onward connections on the Star Partners US/UA plus the huge amount of destinations via LH and onward connections make me doubt that there would be sufficient good-yield passengers all year round to fill another airline. And besides there are some other airlines like BA or AF offering low fares from VIE to numerous US destinations....

Just my 2 cents
=TW741=



TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
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