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Engine Ferrying  
User currently offline777DadandJr From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1516 posts, RR: 12
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2867 times:

I have a question. When an airline has to ferry an engine for a repair, do they just strap it on a regular commercial flight, or do they send it on an empty a/c?
What kind of effect does having a fifth engine, say on a 747, have on controlling the a/c? How does the crew compensate for the unbalanced load?


My glass is neither 1/2 empty nor 1/2 full, rather, the glass itself is twice as big as it should be.
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8045 posts, RR: 54
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

I haven't seen a fifth engine for years. Can it be done on a 747-400 or A340? I don't think the MD11 could do it (Tristar definitely YES and DC10 not sure). No way would a twin be able to handle it, and it's mostly twins these days.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2841 times:

mostly engines are trasported as Service-Cargo on own freighter flights or also on freighter flights from other airlines. And if its really urgent it receive the status "AOG" Aircraft on ground and the engine receive the highest priority on that flight...

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

This is quite the opposite scenario, but I though I would add it in:


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Photo © Norman Gage



As for engines needing repairs, I have heard of four-holers ferrying their own engine with only three engines operative. This is of course without passengers, and needs special checks to make sure the other engines are running perfectly. As for twins and others, I have no idea.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

Cedarjet, yes the B747-400 can transport a fifth engine, don't think the A340 can. Although I don't think AIrlines Carry the fifth airline anymore. As AVianca says they will use their frieghters or buy space on another carriers frieghter. I have also known of Airlines chartering an aircraft to transport an engine if that is the only option and they have a AOG.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8045 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

The Tristar could be ferried with an engine out, an Eastern Airlines L1011 was being ferried on two engines back to base when a second engine died on rotation. This is on a hot day in Mexico City, a high altitude airport. They made it round the circuit and never reached more than 400 feet above the ground. Nice bit of flying, those three guys sure earned their paycheck that day.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5922 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

what is intresting to see is that the airlines often do not use there own space and buy it from other airline, because they can sold there own space on a higher rate level what is the buying rate on the local marekt for the transportation with an other carrier. like LH uses BA too send the engines...

regards



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

18 Wheels a haul'n..!!

I can't tell you the number of aircraft engines I've seen on the back of 18 wheelers. It's not as fast, but far cheaper and if time allows its the preferred method.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5167 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

A friend of mine who is a pilot once had a major engine malfucntion just as it was being shut down while taxiing at PHL.

So how did the replacement get ferried in? It came on a flatbed truck from JFK, and the bad engine went back the same way.


User currently offlinePictues From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2607 times:

A couple weeks ago Cathay had an engine fail on their B747, had a problem they couldn't fix so they cancelled the flight, they brought the engine on their HKG-ANC-JFK Freighter, they had it stop in YVR.

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12860 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2535 times:
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Pratt used Polar air cargo to ship most of the engines coming into East Hartford via air circa 2001. EMBQA has a point, 18 wheelers move quite a few engines in the US. I couldn't tell you how many times I've been stuck on the 405 next to a 18 wheeler hauling a high bypass turbofan on the way to LAX. (Always going south on the 405 I've noted...) I do not know the breakdown of air freight to pure ground transportation.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineHailstone From Germany, joined Nov 2000, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

i knew that i had seen this somewhere:


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Photo © Don Boyd



User currently offlineHailstone From Germany, joined Nov 2000, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

and this of course:


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Photo © Craig Murray



User currently offlineAndrewtang From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 461 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

5th pod on the 747 is restricted to Rolls-Royce and Pratt&Whittney engines only. Some airlines still prefer to use it if there is a need, like Qantas.

The operating speed will decrease when 5th pod is used.


User currently offlineHNL From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 333 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

Growing up in Honolulu I can recall several instances being on a UA 747 from HNL to SFO and peering out the window to see the 5th engine hanging off the wing. I thought it was the coolest thing. The flight crew also made special announcements about it's presence.

I suspect that is a rare sighting (sans the GE Test 747 that appears from time to time) in HNL as UA doesn't send 747s to HNL much these days.



HNL - There's no place like it!
User currently offlineAirgeek12 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

I think most airlines use their own freighters or buy space on another cargo airline.

QUESTION:

Does anyone else see a ghost in the left of this pic, er is it just me?

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Photo © Craig Murray



Kinda freaky there! :p

geek


User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2242 times:

I suspect that is a rare sighting (sans the GE Test 747 that appears from time to time) in HNL as UA doesn't send 747s to HNL much these days.

When GE tested the GE-90, they replaced the number 2 engine with the test engine, and didn't add a fifth one.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

Does anyone else see a ghost in the left of this pic, er is it just me?

Creepy..!!  Big grin Gotta love time laps photography.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4681 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2226 times:
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flew LHR to HKG years ago on a BA 747 with a 5th engine

User currently offlineVatveng From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 950 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Does anyone else see a ghost in the left of this pic, er is it just me?

There's another one behind the engine, in the right-center of the pic.



Visited VA,NC,PA,SC,FL,GA,OH,AL,TX,TN,CO,CA,UT,NV,NM,IN,KY,MD,MO,CT,MA,NH,ME.
User currently offlineCopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2109 times:


I have seen several engines arriving at ORD on the back of a flatbed truck. Also noticed several in the freight warehouses, which presumably came by air.

I would suspect they are shipped the most cost effective way!


User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2096 times:

As far as I remember, the Air India 747 which was brought down by the terrorists off Shannon way back in 1985, was ferrying a fifth inoperative engine. I think the extra time takebn for this procedure while on ground at YYZ (or was it during the stop pver at YMQ?) ultimately proved disastrous l as the subsequent delay meant the aircraft exploded off Shannon. If it was running on time, then the explosion would have happened while on ground at LHR (which seemrd to be the terrorists intention - as another bomb exploded at Narita on the same day while the bags were being transferred from a CP Air flight to an Air India one).



[Edited 2005-02-10 07:42:45]

User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

TKMCE, an accident like that Involving a PAN-AM 747 crashed only about 50 to 60 miles away from where i am now. Although the aircraft wasn't carrying a fifth engine it was blown up over Lockerbie but the terrorists intentions were for it to blow up over the Atlantic. This flight was also running late.

And the ghost in the pics, cool and freaky!!

Dog


User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Now does any UA employee know the answer to this question;

Do Boeing a/c get priority and special arrangements on FX flights due to their contract with FX and their HUGE engine facility over at SFO? Was just in the hangers a few day back and there was a 777 all opened up, surprise surprise! I found 2 engines hidden in the corner that were supposed to go onto the a/c.

Cool way with the 5th pod I must say!

Thanks again.
Ua777222



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineLikesplanes From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Actually, if you look closely you will see that there are 3 "ghosts" in the photo supplied by hailstone. One to the left, and two more to the right of center. You can see one on the wall of the plane, and part of one to the right, just behind the equipment.

25 Post contains links and images Incitatus : Here is another very informative photo: View Large View MediumPhoto © Fred Seggie
26 HaveBlue : I spend a good deal of time on Florida's Interstate system for my job. Seeing high by-pass turbofans going north or south on I-95 is fairly common, pr
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